Featured Project Azm: Pakistan's Ambitious Quest to Develop 5th Generation Military Technologies.

[Ali_Baba]

Up close YF23 walk around:

What a beauty. InshaAllah, Azm based on YF23 will come to fruition.

The UK Tempest programme is basically a modern day YF23 - https://www.raf.mod.uk/what-we-do/team-tempest/

Just shows you how far thinking the Northrop Grumman designers were. Basically 1 generation ahead of all of their competitors ( and that was lost on everyone it seems! ).

 

[Bilal.]

The UK Tempest programme is basically a modern day YF23 - https://www.raf.mod.uk/what-we-do/team-tempest/

Just shows you how far thinking the Northrop Grumman designers were. Basically 1 generation ahead of all of their competitors ( and that was lost on everyone it seems! ).

Yes. It seems like this design is 5 Gen+ potential.

 

[JamD]

I'm sure you you've already read this, but Russian's Checkmate fighter used AI and data from Su-35 and Su-57 to speed up the design process and keep the costs down. @JamD @Bilal Khan (Quwa)
Maybe we can use data from Thunder and even the F-16 for Azm?

Https://nationalinterest.org/blog/b...stealth-fighter-how-can-it-be-so-cheap-190266

AI/ML requires huge amounts of data. US and Russia have decades of data. We don't.

 

[JamD]

View attachment 764834

I think I can conclude that there are two routes for Azm now (since a lot of fog has been lifted at least for me):
1. PAF decides to go at it alone. Most likely we won't see a jet but PAF developing some technologies that can feed into other programs.
2. Azm and TFX become one aircraft. I think there's a good chance that this happens because the requirements are remarkably similar. The PAF is definitely looking for an aircraft in the class of the TFX and not something smaller as we had speculated earlier. This will also give us access to someone with more experience than us. It is very possible that TFX becomes the semi-YF23 clone that AvRID has designed with Russian or Chinese engines.

The absence of a Chinese collab is intentional. Even if there is a Chinese angle to the Azm it will only be a buy, nothing more. The FC-31 does not fulfill PAF's requirement for Azm.

 

[Moon]

AI/ML requires huge amounts of data. US and Russia have decades of data. We don't.

I hope we've started collecting flight data, even if it isn't enough to build another jet, maybe it'll help us in improving the current version.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

I think I can conclude that there are two routes for Azm now (since a lot of fog has been lifted at least for me):
1. PAF decides to go at it alone. Most likely we won't see a jet but PAF developing some technologies that can feed into other programs.
2. Azm and TFX become one aircraft. I think there's a good chance that this happens because the requirements are remarkably similar. The PAF is definitely looking for an aircraft in the class of the TFX and not something smaller as we had speculated earlier. This will also give us access to someone with more experience than us. It is very possible that TFX becomes the semi-YF23 clone that AvRID has designed with Russian or Chinese engines.

The absence of a Chinese collab is intentional. Even if there is a Chinese angle to the Azm it will only be a buy, nothing more. The FC-31 does not fulfill PAF's requirement for Azm.

I think the Turks froze the general design of the TFX. Remember, they contracted BAE to help for a few years (and I think the help is ongoing), so changing it beyond marginal stuff is an added cost. If the PAF is genuinely interested, it'll have to sign onto the TAI/BAE concept.

That said, there might be some room for flexibility re: the engine.

The TR Motor powerplant will likely be far out, so if a big PAF order rests on integrating WS-10 or AL-31, the design of an 'eastern-ized' sub-variant might be tenable.

Ironically, ordering the J-10CE may open the door for the TFX. If the PAF thinks the J-10CE can deliver on its needs for the 2020s and early 2030s, then AHQ may be good with the risks and timelines of the TFX. Obviously, the TFX is ahead on the development curve compared to AZM, but it's still an original project, it has risks. However, if the TFX runs into snags, then the PAF will lean on additional J-10CEs. Until India introduces a FGFA, the J-10CE should be a credible asset against 4+/4.5+ threats.

IMO, the PAF's target fleet mix for 2047 might be:

• 90+ TFX
• ~150 J-10CE
• ~188 JF-17s

 

[Rana4pak]

I think I can conclude that there are two routes for Azm now (since a lot of fog has been lifted at least for me):
1. PAF decides to go at it alone. Most likely we won't see a jet but PAF developing some technologies that can feed into other programs.
2. Azm and TFX become one aircraft. I think there's a good chance that this happens because the requirements are remarkably similar. The PAF is definitely looking for an aircraft in the class of the TFX and not something smaller as we had speculated earlier. This will also give us access to someone with more experience than us. It is very possible that TFX becomes the semi-YF23 clone that AvRID has designed with Russian or Chinese engines.

The absence of a Chinese collab is intentional. Even if there is a Chinese angle to the Azm it will only be a buy, nothing more. The FC-31 does not fulfill PAF's requirement for Azm.

So it’s mean we will further develop jf17 until it’s reach 5th generation with China some thing like that

And with Turkey for deep strike semi yf23 ,it’s a brilliant approach

 

[Scorpiooo]

I think the Turks froze the general design of the TFX. Remember, they contracted BAE to help for a few years (and I think the help is ongoing), so changing it beyond marginal stuff is an added cost. If the PAF is genuinely interested, it'll have to sign onto the TAI/BAE concept.

View attachment 765537

That said, there might be some room for flexibility re: the engine.

The TR Motor powerplant will likely be far out, so if a big PAF order rests on integrating WS-10 or AL-31, the design of an 'eastern-ized' sub-variant might be tenable.

Ironically, ordering the J-10CE may open the door for the TFX. If the PAF thinks the J-10CE can deliver on its needs for the 2020s and early 2030s, then AHQ may be good with the risks and timelines of the TFX. Obviously, the TFX is ahead on the development curve compared to AZM, but it's still an original project, it has risks. However, if the TFX runs into snags, then the PAF will lean on additional J-10CEs. Until India introduces a FGFA, the J-10CE should be a credible asset against 4+/4.5+ threats.

IMO, the PAF's target fleet mix for 2047 might be:

• 90+ TFX
• ~150 J-10CE
• ~188 JF-17s

Do you think that AZM will not progress from paper work, on the other hand PAF can go for TFX as 5th generation post 2030s and continue AZM post 2040s try to make it 5.5 generation

 

[RadarGudumluMuhimmat]

Pakistan now has to preview AZM in the nearest IDEAS.

 

[RAMPAGE]

Pakistan now has to preview AZM in the nearest IDEAS.

Why does it have to?

 

[RadarGudumluMuhimmat]

Why does it have to?

If you say that you will see the plane you will develop in the sky at least before 2030, the main design should be determined by 2022-2023 at the latest. I don't mean a demonstration, but a finished main design, but it's still not even clear what it looks like officially.

 

[Scorpiooo]

If you say that you will see the plane you will develop in the sky at least before 2030, the main design should be determined by 2022-2023 at the latest. I don't mean a demonstration, but a finished main design, but it's still not even clear what it looks like officially.

Bro we are new in clean sheet jet design, Azm design will be take time and multiple iterations for maturity..
those people who think that azm prototype will flying before 2030 are in fools paradise, if we were able to have flyable prototype in mid of 2030s it will be a big success and induction post 2040s

 

[Basel]

Do you think that AZM will not progress from paper work, on the other hand PAF can go for TFX as 5th generation post 2030s and continue AZM post 2040s try to make it 5.5 generation

Basically AZM is 5.5 gen aircraft project as per ex-ACM of PAF.

So it’s mean we will further develop jf17 until it’s reach 5th generation with China some thing like thatView attachment 765538And with Turkey for deep strike semi yf23 ,it’s a brilliant approach View attachment 765539

There are already stealthy JFT design available.

 

[Scorpiooo]

There are already stealthy JFT design available.

View attachment 765588

These are fancy model designs by some Chinese fanboy on some random Chinese web site
It have NO link with CAC/PAC

 

[Kabotar]

So it's based off the YF-23 but has modifications and refinements. For example it will have DSI. Also it is sized specifically with two AL-31/WS-10 in mind. Also also, they're using the F16 as the aerodynamic performance benchmark. Also also also, not even wind tunnel tested yet, so all just digital guesswork at this point.

@Bilal Khan (Quwa) @SQ8

So something like this?