Featured Project Azm: Pakistan's Ambitious Quest to Develop 5th Generation Military Technologies.

[TNT]

don't wish for you but they way you are feeling, I will suggest to take some time & rest to feel better.

Expected u to reply with substance but i guess i was right.
Hey i would love to be wrong but its better to look at ground realities and manage expectations. I will be happy if we get a 5th gen fighter from anywhere when india gets it.

 

[Titanium100]

In the end it will be the FC31 or the TFX. So why waste time and resources for azm? Or may be its always been the plan and azm is just a smoke screen.

It won't be TFX or FC31. It may end up with Hurjet engine or FC31 engine but will be superior to both respectively. I have been reading about the system in build in Azm and it seems like more modern then just a 5th generation and I would fairly say just based on the systems it could easily be labelled 6th generation and could easily turn into the supreme king of the skies. If it runs out of bullets, missiles and rockets it can turn to lasers that doesn't run out and pretty much the only type of 5th generation with such systems it is overly ambitious compared to TFX or FC31 regardless if it ends up with engines from each fighter jet. Azm is the superior fighter based on the build in systems

 

[CriticalThought]

Expected u to reply with substance but i guess i was right.
Hey i would love to be wrong but its better to look at ground realities and manage expectations. I will be happy if we get a 5th gen fighter from anywhere when india gets it.

How many books have you read on the topic of aerodynamics, electromagnetics, radar design, semi-conductor physics, meta materials? Do you personally know any Pakistani PhDs in any of these fields? If you don't, then do as @The Eagle suggested. If you do, then make every effort to get a permanent ban, and I say good riddance.

 

[The Eagle]

Expected u to reply with substance but i guess i was right.
Hey i would love to be wrong but its better to look at ground realities and manage expectations. I will be happy if we get a 5th gen fighter from anywhere when india gets it.

Well, if you are expecting a homegrown 5th Gen Air Craft AZM by over night or within year or even 3 years; pardon me but you are going to be disappointed more than this. It is a mountain task which can be only achieved with patience, hard work, maximum input, lot of efforts, economy, dedication, R&D etc etc. Choose what you are going to do in this regard?

 

[Titanium100]

Well, if you are expecting a homegrown 5th Gen Air Craft AZM by over night or within year or even 3 years; pardon me but you are going to be disappointed more than this. It is a mountain task which can be only achieved with patience, hard work, maximum input, lot of efforts, economy, dedication, R&D etc etc. Choose what you are going to do in this regard?

I honestly don't think it is that far away and could be in the skies as soon as 2024-2025 for testing. As head ways have been made in KTX, TFX and FC31. There will definitely be engine tech sharing on mutual grounds. Which means Azm will see the day of light much earlier then previously thought.

All PAC has to do is not concern itself with the engines but the build in systems and let the Turks or Chinese do that bid. This will hasten the speed of Azm and could meet a 2024-25 deadline

 

[The Eagle]

I honestly don't think it is that far away and could be in the skies as soon as 2024-2025 for testing. As head ways have been made in KTX, TFX and FC31. There will definitely be engine tech sharing on mutual grounds. Which means Azm will see the day of light much earlier then previously thought.

All PAC has to do is not concern itself with the engines but the build in systems and let the Turks or Chinese do that bid. This will hasten the speed of Azm and could meet a 2024-25 deadline

I respect your opinion. I wish that we could have our hands on 5th Gen by tomorrow but there are certain limitations & in-fact a time to things to happen. However, a lot of options can be discussed or I must say, already being discussed by various informed members. Whether an FC-31 or J-35 to be adopted, or a direct partnership in TF-X or derivatives concept for our own but it will make its way here in time In'Sha'ALLAH. Azm is our own twin engine, based upon the information as of yet.

 

[Titanium100]

I respect your opinion. I wish that we could have our hands on 5th Gen by tomorrow but there are certain limitations & in-fact a time to things to happen. However, a lot of options can be discussed or I must say, already being discussed by various informed members. Whether an FC-31 or J-35 to be adopted, or a direct partnership in TF-X or derivatives concept for our own but it will make its way here in time In'Sha'ALLAH. Azm is our own twin engine, based upon the information as of yet.

The Turks have offered partnership. You already have an engine ready unofficially all you need is to build in systems and the Iron brothers won't shy away either this will help them keep India in indefinite check. once that is solved. I promise you Azm will become the best fighter in the skies. With no equals for atleast a decade until 6th generations with superior build ins start to come out

 

[SBUS-CXK]

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[JamD]

I feel this project azm is another truck ki bati.

Perhaps it is. But it is one heck of a useful batti.

The level of technology that goes into the development of a 5th gen fighter is truly unprecedented and cutting edge. Highly industrious and developed rich nations find it very hard and here we are, we cant manufacture basic stuff, have a below avg industrial base, non existent software base, non existent R&D base and we are giving timelines for prototypes lolz.

Absolutely right. So the longer we try to make an FGFA, the better our capacity becomes. That is a very key point. We like to make fun of India for attempting the LCA as 100% indigenousand eventually ending up with a product that isn't 100% indigenous and massively delayed. Mismanagement issues aside, what we don't appreciate is that through that process India has been able to establish A LOT of the base that you are talking about and the next jets that they attempt might shock us with their success. So if this is a truck ki batti, let it be. We'll end up with an infinitely more useful thing than just an FGFA in a decade or two: an industrial and technological base. This is why I keep warning people to expect delays in Azm as a certainty. Don't be surprised if this is Pakistan's LCA (lite) moment.

In the end it will be the FC31 or the TFX. So why waste time and resources for azm? Or may be its always been the plan and azm is just a smoke screen.

Maybe it will be FC31 or TFX. The reasons for "wasting time and resources" is above. You complained about not having a base and then said we shouldn't invest in that base. I say invest in that base, which takes decades, and be patient, very very patient.

 

[CriticalThought]

Absolutely right. So the longer we try to make an FGFA, the better our capacity becomes. That is a very key point. We like to make fun of India for attempting the LCA as 100% indigenousand eventually ending up with a product that isn't 100% indigenous and massively delayed. Mismanagement issues aside, what we don't appreciate is that through that process India has been able to establish A LOT of the base that you are talking about and the next jets that they attempt might shock us with their success. So if this is a truck ki batti, let it be. We'll end up with an infinitely more useful thing than just an FGFA in a decade or two: an industrial and technological base. This is why I keep warning people to expect delays in Azm as a certainty. Don't be surprised if this is Pakistan's LCA (lite) moment.

This is plain wrong. Mismanagement is mismanagement, and it gives no useful results. We have two models in front of us: the Chinese model, and the Indian model. Indians wanted perfection and got nothing. The Chinese got laughed at. Their first attempt at J-10 was rejected by PAF. Today, they are challenging America. There is a reason for this larger than money: good management. If AZM goes the way of LCA, then heads need to roll. As a matter of fact, I say identify those people today who think it is OK to replicate LCA, stand them in a line, and kick them out.

 

[Nasr]

The Turks have offered partnership. You already have an engine ready unofficially all you need is to build in systems and the Iron brothers won't shy away either this will help them keep India in indefinite check. once that is solved. I promise you Azm will become the best fighter in the skies. With no equals for atleast a decade until 6th generations with superior build ins start to come out

Turkey is dependent on the West for their engine, that in itself is a non-starter.
As far as Pakistan is concerned, it's best course is to have an in-house project with substantial collaboration or partnership with China and Russia. Having Turkey included in this partnership is not a bad idea. Pakistan should make every effort to learn from and collaborate with all those partner nations, which are not allied with or dependent on the West.

 

[Mohamed Bin Tughlaq]

Turkey is dependent on the West for their engine, that in itself is a non-starter.
As far as Pakistan is concerned, it's best course is to have an in-house project with substantial collaboration or partnership with China and Russia. Having Turkey included in this partnership is not a bad idea. Pakistan should make every effort to learn from and collaborate with all those partner nations, which are not allied with or dependent on the West.

The turkish Hurjet engine for the TFX is entirely indigenous. It is not about being independent but it is about getting experience and pretty much getting the final products at your hand. Russian tech is currently really not that good and haven't produced anything good since the soviet era. If some minor components were from the West or if even Pakistan team-up with EU countries I don't see the issue not saying that this will be the case as west cooperation is not needed at this point.. Pakistan has already people to deliver that

 

[Pakistan Space Agency]

... TFX could be much better then all of China's J20S AND J31's.. Chinese arms haven't really performed anywhere or in any arena. There is no reputation just hype without testing. ...

Do they have to bomb some Arab country to get a certificate of approval?

Or do you mean to say Chinese have spent billions willy nilly on fifth generation technology not knowing what they're doing because they haven't bombed some Arab country yet?

 

[Mohamed Bin Tughlaq]

Do they have to bomb some Arab country to get a certificate of approval?

Or do you mean to say Chinese have spent billions willy nilly on fifth generation technology not knowing what they're doing because they haven't bombed some Arab country yet?

The chinese arms have been on the market and some of them have been witnessed with not so good results except the CH4 doing fairly decent but not top notch performance either and why do you think Chinese arms are still not popular to this day because of performance issues. All the big weapon purchasers are not keen on chinese made arms??. It is not only Arab but Armenia theater amongst others which had much better defense systems then the Assad ragtag militias turkey ranover or Haftar. I won't even rule out Armenia having better defense systems then pakistan, Iran, India and perhaps even China. Just because of Armenia's size don't be deluded they got Russia's best defense systems it got easily bypassed

 

[Pakistan Space Agency]

... I won't even rule out Armenia having better defense systems then pakistan, Iran, India and perhaps even China. ...