Featured Project Azm: Pakistan's Ambitious Quest to Develop 5th Generation Military Technologies.

[Awan68]

You see, with twin engine planes even if a missile or anti air artillery explodes near you and knocks out one engine, you can still fly. With single engines that's not possible. As for maintenance, it's the same as maintaining two planes , rate of sorties might be less for twin engine planes , but the advantage they carry when it comes to offense is immense

One doesnt base an entire fighter project on the 0.1% chance that an incoming missle will only disable one engine, just sayin mate. One has to assume, if its a hit, you are a gonner. That saved by one engine thing can be counted as an act of Allah, we cannot control acts of Allah.

 

[帅的一匹]

One doesnt base an entire fighter project on the 0.1% chance that an incoming missle will only disable one engine, just sayin mate. One has to assume, if its a hit, you are a gonner. That saved by one engine thing can be counted as an act of Allah, we cannot control acts of Allah.

For example, PLAAF or PLANAF prefers J11b than J10 when they patrol in the South China Sea. More range without tanker and two engines make it more reliable（maybe it's not a hit of missle, or just engine mal-function).

 

[Awan68]

For example, PLAAF or PLANAF prefers J11b than J10 when they patrol in the South China Sea. More range without tanker and two engines make it more reliable（maybe it's not a hit of missle, or just engine mal-function).

Yes i understand the benefits of twin engines, i was just discussing the feasibility in case of a Pakistam centric fighter jet program where twin engines may increase maintanence costs to a point where large number could not be inducted. A medium wieght single engine jet will be more feasible for Pakistan, wouldnt u agree?

 

[帅的一匹]

Yes i understand the benefits of twin engines, i was just discussing the feasibility in case of a Pakistam centric fighter jet program where twin engines may increase maintanence costs to a point where large number could not be inducted. A medium wieght single engine jet will be more feasible for Pakistan, wouldnt u agree?

I agree with you in some extent, but I still think PAF need two squadrons of Su30SM or J16. Cost effective is necessary, but it can't help you win a war.

 

[Awan68]

I agree with you in some extent, but I still think PAF need two squadrons of Su30SM or J16. Cost effective is necessary, but it can't help you win a war.

Yes ofcourse a limited amount of twin engine jets around 2-3 squadrons is the need of the time and for that an off the shelf option can be looked at preferably but for a national stealth jet program, the product of which we would definately intend to induct in large numbers like the jf 17, cost would be a deciding factor.

 

[Cookie Monster]

I presume that PAF might be working with CAC for a customized design of single engine stealthy fighter.

If they are inducting FC31, they won't call it AZM.

That's also my guess. "AZM" is probably gonna be a single engine jet that would follow JF17 like approach and be made in numbers. PAF would at some later point probably also acquire FC31/TFX(twin engine) or something along those lines off the shelf.

 

[Cookie Monster]

For example, PLAAF or PLANAF prefers J11b than J10 when they patrol in the South China Sea. More range without tanker and two engines make it more reliable（maybe it's not a hit of missle, or just engine mal-function).

Twin engine has its benefits and drawbacks. But for the role that the JF17 is fulfilling, single engine suites more. In the event of a war, IAF has huge numbers...Pak could've bought and deployed layered SAM systems for various altitudes and ranges and it has to a certain extent...but instead Pak is going for more numbers of fighters. SAMs can't become an offensive weapon...a fighter jet can be used as both an offensive and defensive asset.

So Pak might procure more SAM systems in the future bcuz that is important too but going for a relatively low cost fighter that's also less costly to maintain was a bigger priority.

Pak should also acquire twin engine jets for strike capability deep within enemy territory but that would just be a few squadrons. For the foreseeable future, in order to keep some numbers parity with India, Pak would have to go for single engine jets to make the bulk of numbers.

 

[Silicon0000]

any updates on WS19 & it's spec?

 

[PakAlp]

A question would be if Fc31 is a truely 5th Generation fighter plane then why the Chinese army and government are not supporting it and why is the progress so slow.

Fc31 and J20 were tested at similar time around 2011 but J20 already has 8 prototypes and 16odd production fighters and fc31 only has 2 prototypes. So something definitely not right. It can be said the fc31 is not rated in pla or paf because otherwise china would never delay the production of a cutting edge 5th gen fighter. if Paf really wanted the fc31 then they would have joined the project back in 2011 and right now it would be in the process of getting the production fighter ready for just say 2020.

I would say that pla and paf are preparing a new fighter design and the prototype would be ready by 2023 and production/Induction by 2030. This is not bad date for a 5th generation fighter induction. Our rival India will most likely induct 5th gen fighter at similar time so why should paf induct earlier, they would rather wait till chinese technology has advanced more.

Can somebody share a brief analysis of fc31 fighter based on the 2 prototypes to see if its worthy of selection by paf for AZM.

One definite thing we can say is that the Turkish TFX fighter will definitely be bought by Pakistan. Paf would never ignore a western tech 5th gen fighter. We very lucky we got an option to buy one in the first place. Otherwise the only option would have been China

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

TAI diaclosed TFX target deadline 2023 first flight. PAC AZM targer deadline first flight also 2023. Lets see what happens.

A question would be if Fc31 is a truely 5th Generation fighter plane then why the Chinese army and government are not supporting it and why is the progress so slow.

Fc31 and J20 were tested at similar time around 2011 but J20 already has 8 prototypes and 16odd production fighters and fc31 only has 2 prototypes. So something definitely not right. It can be said the fc31 is not rated in pla or paf because otherwise china would never delay the production of a cutting edge 5th gen fighter. if Paf really wanted the fc31 then they would have joined the project back in 2011 and right now it would be in the process of getting the production fighter ready for just say 2020.

I would say that pla and paf are preparing a new fighter design and the prototype would be ready by 2023 and production/Induction by 2030. This is not bad date for a 5th generation fighter induction. Our rival India will most likely induct 5th gen fighter at similar time so why should paf induct earlier, they would rather wait till chinese technology has advanced more.

Can somebody share a brief analysis of fc31 fighter based on the 2 prototypes to see if its worthy of selection by paf for AZM.

One definite thing we can say is that the Turkish TFX fighter will definitely be bought by Pakistan. Paf would never ignore a western tech 5th gen fighter. We very lucky we got an option to buy one in the first place. Otherwise the only option would have been China

 

[CriticalThought]

A question would be if Fc31 is a truely 5th Generation fighter plane then why the Chinese army and government are not supporting it and why is the progress so slow.

Fc31 and J20 were tested at similar time around 2011 but J20 already has 8 prototypes and 16odd production fighters and fc31 only has 2 prototypes. So something definitely not right. It can be said the fc31 is not rated in pla or paf because otherwise china would never delay the production of a cutting edge 5th gen fighter. if Paf really wanted the fc31 then they would have joined the project back in 2011 and right now it would be in the process of getting the production fighter ready for just say 2020.

I would say that pla and paf are preparing a new fighter design and the prototype would be ready by 2023 and production/Induction by 2030. This is not bad date for a 5th generation fighter induction. Our rival India will most likely induct 5th gen fighter at similar time so why should paf induct earlier, they would rather wait till chinese technology has advanced more.

Can somebody share a brief analysis of fc31 fighter based on the 2 prototypes to see if its worthy of selection by paf for AZM.

One definite thing we can say is that the Turkish TFX fighter will definitely be bought by Pakistan. Paf would never ignore a western tech 5th gen fighter. We very lucky we got an option to buy one in the first place. Otherwise the only option would have been China

J-20 is where the real research happens. Once a technology is developed for it, it trickles down to FC31, J-10 and even our Thunder. DSI is one such example. No need to develop the same 5th gen technology twice for two different fighters.

 

[mzeeshanfahd]

everybody is guessing so I thought I shoudl try too ........found this CG on a chinese web site ...... seems something similar to yf23 but in single engine platform

 

[Basel]

“Turkish Avionics”, I am not sure I would bet on that if I were pakistanis, turkey has never even made a low end fighter must less to be considered to have “turkish avionics”.

Turkey does make decent avionics and their F-16s have them.

No country can develop a new design into production in 5 years for a 5th G fighter

J-20 was not only stealth project / design CAC had.

Turkey is looking for countries who have experience in making jet engines. Pak can't help much other than perhaps financially.

Turkey already have UK for its 5th gen bird development and engine, also EJ-200/230 could be used in TFX which is very reliable and advance engine with good life span.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Turkey already have UK for its 5th gen bird development and engine, also EJ-200/230 could be used in TFX which is very reliable and advance engine with good life span.

I know I was just answering his question where he suggested that Pak and Thrkey should team up for engine development.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Just a thought, but wouldn't it be interesting if PAC teamed up with CAC on a single-engine 5th-gen fighter that can do Short Take-off/Vertical Landing (STOVL)?

It might not be possible from the onset, but perhaps as a sub-variant a few years later?

This way, all the PN would need is a landing platform dock (LPD)-size ship to field a fixed-wing fighter.

If you're going to bother with a new project, you might as well try and get features not available on the market. @Hassan Guy

This might be of interest to the PLAN as well from an amphibious operations standpoint. @wanglaokan