Procurement of new aircraft in PAF

[Falcon26]

Firm believer in element of suprise and variation

Fighter jet procurements and how they fit into the overall security doctrine is not the same as filling your garage with fancy cars to impress you neighbors. I am happy the PAF is being conservative and making long term decisions instead of going on a spending spree like the Arabs and the Indians.

 

[mikkix]

@Zarvan
at the end what civilian govt. think is correct... Nawaz wanted that PAF should buy Su-35, But PAF was insisting on EFT and that was in 2016..

Now late 2017 West is showing Middle Finger to even think about their Aircrafts....

Truly agreed. But i belive EFT is better than Sukhois. Sukhois are trashes and you cant maintained them plus their reliability is a question mark. West technologies are tremendous. Chinese are concerned they are babies in Aircraft Technologies.

 

[BRAVO_]

Truly agreed. But i belive EFT is better than Sukhois. Sukhois are trashes and you cant maintained them plus their reliability is a question mark. West technologies are tremendous. Chinese are concerned they are babies in Aircraft Technologies.

its not about which one is better ... it is about what we can get ??? keeping in view the current economic condition truth is non of both, but still we can build a sufficient defensive threshold through indicting more JF-17s III's ... further pakistan may participate in the development of a 5th gen fighter with china or may be turkey but it all depend upon the political dynamics around

 

[mikkix]

its not about which one is better ... it is about what we can get ??? keeping in view the current economic condition truth is non of both, but still we can build a sufficient defensive threshold through indicting more JF-17s III's ... further pakistan may participate in the development of a 5th gen fighter with china or may be turkey but it all depend upon the political dynamics around

No, its only dependent on economic conditions and international relations with give and take scenarios. Secondly, 5th generation production plan is nothing but fooling the audiences, mark this thread...

 

[mrrehan]

@fatman17 @EagleEyes @Windjammer @Imran Khan @Muradk @MastanKhan @The SC @Horus @Bilal Khan (Quwa) [USER=32460]@HRK @Icarus @Oscar @Penguin @Side-Winder @SpArK

The only way around is to go for Chinese J-11D variant, which is close to SU-27 but is not as heavy as SU-35. In view of Chinese purchase of SU-35, we can expect there might be a twisted way to access Russian permissions for further TOT of SU-35 to China, which indirectly Pakistan have some benefits too, so in future they can modify J-11 more. In this way in a sense Russian can twist India's arm to be going close to US and access a bit of Pakistani market without much interrupted by Indians. Possibly Russian Engines or other equipments for Pakistan. Meanwhile we can go for JF-17 Block III and upgrade some block II to block III standards. Hopefully seniors can brainstorm more on possibilities.



SU-35

=====

Crew: 1

Length: 21.9 m (72 ft 11 in)

Wingspan: (with wingtip pods) 15.3 m (50 ft 2 in)
Wing area: 62 m² (667 ft²)

Hardpoints: 12

Height: 5.9 m (19 ft 5 in)
Empty weight: 18,400 kg

Loaded weight: 25,300 kg at 50% internal fuel
Max. takeoff weight: 34,500 kg

Fuel capacity: 11,500 kg internally
Powerplant: 2 × Saturn AL-41F1S afterburning turbofans

Dry thrust: 86.3 kN each
Thrust with afterburner: 142 kN each

Maximum speed:
At altitude: Mach 2.25 (2,400 km/h; 1,490 mph)
At sea level: Mach 1.13 (1,400 km/h; 870 mph)

Range:
At altitude: 3,600 km, At sea level: 1,580 km
Ferry range: 4,500 km with 2 external fuel tanks
Service ceiling: 59,100 ft

Rate of climb: >280 m/s (>55,000 ft/min)


J-11

=====
Crew: 1
Length: 21.9 m (71 ft 10 in)
Wingspan: 14.70 m (48 ft 3 in)
Height: 5.92 m (19 ft 6 in)
Wing area: 62.04 m² (667.8 ft²)

Hardpoints: 10

Empty weight: 16,380 kg[39]
Loaded weight: 23,926 kg
Max. takeoff weight: 33,000 kg
Fuel capacity: 9,400 kg internally

Powerplant: 2 × Lyulka AL-31F or
2 x Woshan WS-10A "Taihang" turbofans

Dry thrust: 75.22 kN / 89.17 kN each
Thrust with afterburner: 123 kN / 132 kN each

Maximum speed: Mach 2.35 (2,500 km/h, 1,550 mph) at altitude
Range: 3,530 km

Service ceiling: 62,523 ft

Rate of climb: 300 m/s (60,000 ft/min)


​

[/USER]

 

[rana MRL]

Jf 17 block 3 is only viable option so far .... I have some thought it also look sillyish ... is it possible to make some changes in design paeameter of jf 17 ,,, to make it delta wing to replsce mirage and make it to more fir bombing or SEAD mission ... or more having make it twin engine with same rd33 0r rd 93 engine for deep strike .....
Well commonality of two different jf17 designs will not cause mucg headache
Its only a thought .. no offense

 

[tarrar]

Pakistan should strengthen its defence ties with Turkey, China & Russia, so that Pakistan can develop its defence industry in rapid pace.

Pakistan should try to buy SU35 & J20 or J31.

 

[Silicon0000]

Everything depends on what you want? A beauty of peace time and useless junk of war time which you can't even fly or a bird which is less capable but with full control of use in war time. In war time no one is going to support you may be except china and turkey. It's wise to have JF17 block 3 in numbers and save money from rest of platforms and go directly for a 5th gen option with as much localization as much possible. Reality is now for American, European and Russian, Pakistan comes after India and In indo-Pak war it's foolish to depends on them. Better to go for self reliance and have own jf17 with own 5th gen and let fan boys dream and talk for beauties of air.

 

[ghauri05]

The only pragmatic approach will be to go for J-11D...by convincing Russia...it will give us reliable supply partner china....and end our worries about heavy fighters

Or the other way is to make a twin engine jf-17 blk 4(or jf-18)...and u can produce them as many as possible..not depending on anyone..just see in3-4 decades we have about 80 f16s but in 1 decade we have more jf17s
I know 5th gen is the goal of PAF..and is right about it...but I think no air force will be able to operate an air fleet considering entirely on 5th generation....so 4th gen have to come in at some stage...so if we make our own twin engine..it will help us..overcoming the number and range issues

The only pragmatic approach will be to go for J-11D...by convincing Russia...it will give us reliable supply partner china....and end our worries about heavy fighters

Or the other way is to make a twin engine jf-17 blk 4(or jf-18)...and u can produce them as many as possible..not depending on anyone..just see in3-4 decades we have about 80 f16s but in 1 decade we have more jf17s
I know 5th gen is the goal of PAF..and is right about it...but I think no air force will be able to operate an air fleet considering entirely on 5th generation....so 4th gen have to come in at some stage...so if we make our own twin engine..it will help us..overcoming the number and range issues

 

[Signalian]

Not possible to see Chinese Flanker series in PAF.

 

[mrrehan]

Not possible to see Chinese Flanker series in PAF.

Elaborate please.

 

[el nino]

Elaborate please.

The Chinease J11 cannot be exported .. Russian copyright issues

China can only export its own indengious fighters JF17 or J10 or earlier model J7/J8

 

[mrrehan]

The Chinease J11 cannot be exported .. Russian copyright issues

China can only export its own indengious fighters JF17 or J10 or earlier model J7/J8

Events comes and go by time and it's all about changing scenarios in international politics and diplomacy, nothing is forever. If Indian can lean towards US then in this rapidly changing alignments, why not Russian can thinking about Pakistan (getting distance with US in relations, which is more in Russian favor) we cannot forget the recent deal "(1) Mi-35M attack helicopters" which was 4, too small in numbers, even then India tried to stop it.

Currently it will not be ease for Russian to deal with Pakistan directly due to few Russian and Indian partnerships ongoing projects (The more financial aspect) including FGFA.

Why not Russian can give permission to Chinese to sell J-11D to Pakistan? In any ways haven't we have these copies of Russian fighters flown in Pakistan before. If India can make TOT deals with purchase with France for Rafael, another French multinational aircraft engine maker SAFRAN helping India for Kaveri engine. SAAB is also seems willing to do it (2).

Why not Russia and China. India madly buying everything. The technology is changing rapidly anyways, you never know what going to be in next 5 to 10 years.

India is using and they are working on for TOT for SU-30 (3), how came it will be ease for Russia to sell SU-35 to Pakistan? India will block the deal any way, but they cannot stop China to sell J-11D to Pakistan. On the other hand for Pakistan, Chinese relations are more reliable then Pakistan, Russian relation (just in case). Pakistan and China if work together to get it work it will be a working option. Russia has given us JF-17 engines through Chinese efforts. Same thing here goes here too.

Pakistan is getting technology any way form the world e.g AESA radar and many other for F-17 Block III. Hopefully a mix of Russian, Chinese, South African + Turkey do the math for us. This seem to be a quite smart move.

(1) http://thediplomat.com/2017/08/pakistan-receives-4-advanced-attack-helicopters-from-russia/

(2) https://thewire.in/172643/adani-to-...as-10-billion-single-fighter-jet-competition/

(3) http://www.indiandefensenews.in/2017/04/indias-mod-reveals-which-private.html

 

[ziaulislam]

simply get more jf-17, as of now we cannot even afford that
if you have extra cash do some good diplomacy and get used f-16

beyond that a squadron of flankers if available from china would be a good choice but i doubt they will be available, even if they are, i doubt we can afford them

as i said, we cannot even afford thunders

sweden successfully deterred a several times bigger force with its gripen, we should learn from them and purely focus on thunders

remember the likely scenario for destruction of Pakistan that has been roadmaped by india is not through military force but proxy war and economical collapse

 

[mrrehan]

simply get more jf-17, as of now we cannot even afford that
if you have extra cash do some good diplomacy and get used f-16

beyond that a squadron of flankers if available from china would be a good choice but i doubt they will be available, even if they are, i doubt we can afford them

as i said, we cannot even afford thunders

sweden successfully deterred a several times bigger force with its gripen, we should learn from them and purely focus on thunders

remember the likely scenario for destruction of Pakistan that has been roadmaped by india is not through military force but proxy war and economical collapse

No one has stop Pakistan to bring back the money we criminally lost by Money laundering