Presser by PM Kakar regarding Afghanistan situation

[TheSolution]

LOL! I also didn't said about invasion. I think you are mistaking Pakistan with some great power of the world ? Invasion!! LOL! You should not even think to touch anyone let alone invasion! Don't you think by attacking Taliban's ammo centers you are practically at war with them ?

Do you have even resources or economy for that ? Do you have even have stamina for that ? Do you really hear yourself what you are saying ?

Btw, you do you want to go full circle? Those ethnic groups had a participation in earlier afghan govt and they are totally pro-indian. Your best even non-indian influence govt is TALIBAN. You wanted this for 20 years and you got this. Taliban are your best chance to have a friendly border Otherwise you are doomed. The non-taliban groups always had a dream to remove Pakistan, so that India and afghanistan can share a border and they get access to the ocean too from baluchistan. You really don't have the idea of the northern alliance which hated Pakistan to the core.

I don't know why I am even debating on this. Or why even there is need to explain this that you cannot start a war that you cannot win. Actually forget winning, you can't even survive after starting that war. You are barely surviving now even without a war.

Those ethnic groups are not pro-Indian.

They are pro-whoever funds and supports them. Pakistan chose the Taliban so no shit they'll be pro-Indian! In fact the real pro-Indians are Afghan Pashtuns who see it as an ally to use against Pakistan to expand.

Supporting Afghan Pashtuns was a complete disaster and always was going to be, these generals just kept hyping up their level of control knowing it wasn't there.

If you can support the Taliban, you can easily support a different group informally and covertly.

The non-taliban groups always had a dream to remove Pakistan, so that India and afghanistan can share a border and they get access to the ocean too from baluchistan.

Stop talking shit now. This is pure nonsense.

This is literally only an Afghan Pashtun (Taliban aka Pashtun Islamists) wet dream lmao, and in fact the Taliban wants this exact same shit if you haven't been checking the news or their official accounts/videos/statements yet

It's common sense that Tajiks have no intrinsic desire for foreign lands with zero connections but the Afghan Pashtuns do.

 

[CivilianSupremacy]

If you can support the Taliban, you can easily support a different group informally and covertly.

Now you are talking. Supporting them covertly is a different thing then airstrike and starting a war.

BTW, with Afghan pashtuns and Taliban We had zero security issues during the 90s and during 80s they were already our frontline soldiers. They were never pro-indian.

Now as for the other ethnic groups that you mentioned, the thing is those groups have really no capability to stand up to Taliban. They all fell and vanished during Taliban take over. Taliban are the most powerful and biggest power group that controls almost entirety of Afghanistan. If Pakistan is smart, they should make deeper friendship with them. If you annoy them, india will definitely win again and will start relationship with them. You will be again in bloody 2 front situation. We need to understand that Afghan taliban are not our enemies. On TTP they are acting neutral because they simply don't want to start a war with TTP for another country. As I Told earlier, afghan taliban were assisting in finishing off TTP during previous intelligence cheif policy. Pakistan's attitude become hostile against Taliban with new policy. The new ISI chief ill thought policy to even assume that arm twisting or cold statements will force Taliban to act. United states warned Taliban to handover Al-qaeda members after 9/11 and they declined. What do you think you are that can talk with such tone to Taliban. You need to politically engage them and earn trust. We can make such great relationship but we want to commit suicide and blunder.

top talking shit now. This is pure nonsense.

This is literally only an Afghan Pashtun (Taliban aka Pashtun Islamists) wet dream lmao, and in fact the Taliban wants this exact same shit if you haven't been checking the news or their official accounts/videos/statements yet

Don't take it personal. Reply with reason and logic.

Why on earth you wanted to start a war with Afghan Taliban. The ones you dearly wanted to get back in power for 20 years. Were you not fed up by pro-indian govt, the NDS / RAW nexus and all that for 20 years ?? Why we have so short term memory ?

This is the most insane statement I have ever heard in PDF that's to do airstrikes on Afghan taliban and practically get in an active war with broken economy and a 2 front situation. It can't be any worse. Its better you accept your flawed argument rather than continuing on weak foundation of arguments that support this wild idea.

 

[CivilianSupremacy]

It's common sense that Tajiks have no intrinsic desire for foreign lands

I wish "common sense" was that common.

 

[TheSolution]

Now you are talking. Supporting them covertly is a different thing then airstrike and starting a war.

BTW, with Afghan pashtuns and Taliban We had zero security issues during the 90s and during 80s they were already our frontline soldiers. They were never pro-indian.

Now as for the other ethnic groups that you mentioned, the thing is those groups have really no capability to stand up to Taliban. They all fell and vanished during Taliban take over. Taliban are the most powerful and biggest power group that controls almost entirety of Afghanistan. If Pakistan is smart, they should make deeper friendship with them. If you annoy them, india will definitely win again and will start relationship with them. You will be again in bloody 2 front situation. We need to understand that Afghan taliban are not our enemies. On TTP they are acting neutral because they simply don't want to start a war with TTP for another country. As I Told earlier, afghan taliban were assisting in finishing off TTP during previous intelligence cheif policy. Pakistan's attitude become hostile against Taliban with new policy. The new ISI chief ill thought policy to even assume that arm twisting or cold statements will force Taliban to act. United states warned Taliban to handover Al-qaeda members after 9/11 and they declined. What do you think you are that can talk with such tone to Taliban. You need to politically engage them and earn trust. We can make such great relationship but we want to commit suicide and blunder.



Don't take it personal. Reply with reason and logic.

Why on earth you wanted to start a war with Afghan Taliban. The ones you dearly wanted to get back in power for 20 years. Were you not fed up by pro-indian govt, the NDS / RAW nexus and all that for 20 years ?? Why we have so short term memory ?

This is the most insane statement I have ever heard in PDF that's to do airstrikes on Afghan taliban and practically get in an active war with broken economy and a 2 front situation. It can't be any worse. Its better you accept your flawed argument rather than continuing on weak foundation of arguments that support this wild idea.

Bruh my whole point this entire time was covertly, not some active war state

Also we have already done airstrikes on the Taliban last year, so it's possible in a limited capacity

I just think when it comes to dealing with Afghanistan you have to treat the situation as a tribal situation according to what it is - ignore the weird state building antics and restrictive rules of war because of some moral concerns - you need to play according to their rules and their region.

 

[Mirzali Khan]

You can see this with how they are trying to switch trading routes utilise wakhan corridor and Iran's chahbahar and skipping Pakistan entirely. It's essentially stealing Pakistan's role as the entry into Central Asia.

Iran is also complicit in this. I remember seeing a video or article of an Irani minister saying how Chahabar wasn't "agaisnt" Gwadar but also implying its more "useful".

“We have made very clear to our Indian, Chinese friends that Chabahar is open for cooperation for everybody. Chabahar is not against China… is not against Gwadar. Chabahar is a place where we can all come together in order to help Afghanistan, help development and prosperity in the region,” Zarif said in his address at the Raisina Dialogue 2021.

“If we provide Afghanistan transit opportunities through Chabahar, through elsewhere, through international markets… the unofficial economy will go away. That economy gives rise to drug trafficking, human trafficking, to terrorism, to violence and we need to put that aside,” he said.

Chabahar Port is not against China or Gwadar, Iran FM Javad Zarif says

At the Raisina Dialogue, Zarif said the Chabahar project will move since India, Pakistan, China and Iran all have a ‘shared interest’ in Afghanistan.

theprint.in

 

[CivilianSupremacy]

Bruh my whole point this entire time was covertly not some active war state

Also we have already done airstrikes on the Taliban last year, so it's possible in a limited capacity

Ok then its fine.

-Pakistan should carry out airstrikes and destroy all of Taliban's ammunition storage centres, and military equipment like helicopters and vehicles to weaken their stronghold.

You mentioned above that's why I replied. but anyways,

The airstrike which we did was on TTP camp, not on the Taliban's ammo or helicopters bases etc. Any attack on Taliban's military will start a war. A war that we cannot win, nobody can in the situation we are geographically, financially

 

[Mirzali Khan]

I think you will see it advance into pubjab/sindh.

If it gets hot enough you will settle for a new status quo and a new informal border (maybe formal?) The same one we have had for 1000s of years. Geographical boundaries are forever. Lines change all the time.

And why not? They sense weakness. The coffers are empty. There is no air campaign coming unless you get someone else to fund it. There is no way you can ramp up internal security enough to secure pakistan unless you get someone else to fund it.

2030, if this forum is still around ill come back to this thread and post the new map.

You do realize if Afghanistan ever gets portions of Pakistani territory, they are gonna go straight for Kashmir

 

[Mirzali Khan]

I have a feeling if they go for Pakistan it won't be portions but all of it, meaning the Kashmir issue will be inherited for them

A lot of Hindu nationalists love the Taliban as it has a rocky relationship with Pakistan and love them for their ties with TTP.

But they don't realize the irredentism is gonna start targeting Kashmir and East Punjab

 

[TheSolution]

A lot of Hindu nationalists love the Taliban as it has a rocky relationship with Pakistan and love them for their ties with TTP.

But they don't realize the irredentism is gonna start targeting Kashmir and East Punjab

Logically if half of Pakistan falls that's the army's reputation and control fully in a coffin, and the Islamic status of the other parts would just make it ripe to add on with ease, especially given its economic value

Taliban with nukes and Hindutva with nukes would be the actual meaning of a nuclear flash point

 

[nibba]

Now you are talking. Supporting them covertly is a different thing then airstrike and starting a war.

BTW, with Afghan pashtuns and Taliban We had zero security issues during the 90s and during 80s they were already our frontline soldiers. They were never pro-indian.

Now as for the other ethnic groups that you mentioned, the thing is those groups have really no capability to stand up to Taliban. They all fell and vanished during Taliban take over. Taliban are the most powerful and biggest power group that controls almost entirety of Afghanistan. If Pakistan is smart, they should make deeper friendship with them. If you annoy them, india will definitely win again and will start relationship with them. You will be again in bloody 2 front situation. We need to understand that Afghan taliban are not our enemies. On TTP they are acting neutral because they simply don't want to start a war with TTP for another country. As I Told earlier, afghan taliban were assisting in finishing off TTP during previous intelligence cheif policy. Pakistan's attitude become hostile against Taliban with new policy. The new ISI chief ill thought policy to even assume that arm twisting or cold statements will force Taliban to act. United states warned Taliban to handover Al-qaeda members after 9/11 and they declined. What do you think you are that can talk with such tone to Taliban. You need to politically engage them and earn trust. We can make such great relationship but we want to commit suicide and blunder.



Don't take it personal. Reply with reason and logic.

Why on earth you wanted to start a war with Afghan Taliban. The ones you dearly wanted to get back in power for 20 years. Were you not fed up by pro-indian govt, the NDS / RAW nexus and all that for 20 years ?? Why we have so short term memory ?

This is the most insane statement I have ever heard in PDF that's to do airstrikes on Afghan taliban and practically get in an active war with broken economy and a 2 front situation. It can't be any worse. Its better you accept your flawed argument rather than continuing on weak foundation of arguments that support this wild idea.

War has already started. This isn't de-escalating from here.

You do realize if Afghanistan ever gets portions of Pakistani territory, they are gonna go straight for Kashmir

That's too many ifs to worry about tbh. I haven't seen any of it.

I also don't want pakistan to fall. I want a west bangladesh. Not chaos and misery at the border.

 

[El Sidd]

On Afghan Issue, and citizenship: If a person is borned in the UK or the US. Do you think they will see their parents citizenship ?

Pakistani law offers the aliens to acquire citizenship if the credentials can be vouched for.

A person born and raised in Pakistan is a Pakistani

Only to a Pakistani parent.

 

[r3alist]

Why do so many pro Afghan Taliban arguments logically lead to pain for Pakistan, either via terrorism, crime or just plain ethno centric behaviour.

Nurturing the Afghans has yielded what so far? Any notional future benefit are high risk and low probability, who disagrees?

 

[TheSolution]

Why do so many pro Afghan Taliban arguments logically lead to pain for Pakistan, either via terrorism, crime or just plain ethno centric behaviour.

Nurturing the Afghans has yielded what so far? Any notional future benefit are high risk and low probability, who disagrees?

Same reason that being pro-Indian would lead to pain for Pakistan in IOK.

You can't be pro a group that believes it must cut a part of your body and steal it from you, and is trying to ignite a civil war in your country using ethnicity to achieve this.

This is the crux of the issue. Land dispute. Just like with India.

 

[r3alist]

Same reason that being pro-Indian would lead to pain for Pakistan in IOK.

You can't be pro a group that believes it must cut a part of your body and steal it from you, and is trying to ignite a civil war in your country using ethnicity to achieve this.

This is the crux of the issue. Land dispute. Just like with India.

So who is providing an alternate theory? I am just wondering what the thinking and rationale is at this moment in time.

The brotherhood and friendship stance has been tried right, it's not as if the approach has been devoid of compassion.

Btw, I do think many, the vast majority in Pakistan would have loved the Afghans to embrace more positively those in Pakistan, I suppose you can't make friends with something that's not there.

 

[TheSolution]

So who is providing an alternate theory? I am just wondering what the thinking and rationale is at this moment in time.

The brotherhood and friendship stance has been tried right, it's not as if the approach has been devoid of compassion.

Btw, I do think many, the vast majority in Pakistan would have loved the Afghans to embrace more positively those in Pakistan, I suppose you can't make friends with something that's not there.

If by alternate theory you mean the other option we have to deal with Afghanistan then I've given suggestions in this and other threads.

And yes, Pakistan did welcome them with love but it wasn't reciprocated, they pretty much have a nazi racial superiority complex, don't view them as true Muslims, degrade them, claim half of Pakistan's land etc