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Possible steps to counter the rising threat from IAF ?

Please please don't be offended by my posts.

A paitriotic Pakistani is often blind to your weaknesess that we the enemy can see and will try to exploit.

USA does not have your back the way the chinease have.

deep down your more balanced posters know this to be true.

THE F16 is a strength BUT a risk for the PAF
 
Our down time is like 10% and in time of war---it will be like 2 - 3 % during the first waves----.

Your issue is the spares and availability. Availability in non war conditions and war conditions are 2 different things.
 
JF-17 can become more advance then Advance Super Hornet F-18 if it is properly reshaped and pods, conformal fuel tanks are developed and IAF will have nothing to handle it. CAC have all nearly done on paper they just have to bring all those things together to make JF-17-NG it can be 4.8 gen fighter but Pakistan have to finance it.

What kind of non sense is this ?
 
6th December, 2009
Last Updated: Mon Jan 27 11:18:09 UTC 2014

Modern Surface to Air Missile (SAM) systems are formidable area-denial weapons. They are the agile Kings on the checkerboard landscape. While one SAM battery searches and tracks, another shoots and guides. Others move to new locations, denying an enemy an effective attack. These systems are networked, and may use diverse frequencies to penetrate ‘stealth’ designs. They feature redundant elements, so if the enemy is lucky and destroys one element, others seamlessly take its place. The missiles are fast, high flying and deadly, with advanced guidance systems and high resistance to electronic jamming. To further confuse and deny an enemy a shot, realistic dummies and electronic decoys draw fire away from the real equipment.
...
The latest APA technical report by Dr Carlo Kopp and John Wise, which explores recently revealed Chinese military radars, shows that there is more that we do not know about China’s indigenous air defence weapons development program than we do know, but what we do know shows a rapid advance towards mastery of state-of-the-art SAM system technology. This study follows Dr Kopp’s recent technical report on the HQ-9 design.
...
The radar makes use of all of the anti-jam design features the Russians cleverly built into the SA-10 and SA-20. One Asian source is claiming a basic Low Probability of Intercept capability for the radar, which would make it extremely difficult to detect and track by its microwave emissions. And the 8 x 8 and 10 x 10 vehicles used make it just as mobile as the latest Russian SAM designs, for highly survivable ‘hide, shoot and scoot’ operations.

The HQ-12 is a much shorter ranging system, intended to provide an inner layer defence, inside the footprint of the HQ-9. It is also mobile, and the radar looks to be based on much the same technology as the HQ-9, making it hard to detect, hard to track and hard to jam.

For all intents and purposes, the HQ-9 and HQ-12 are modern technology SAM systems, designed for contemporary high intensity conflicts.

The three new HQ-9 acquisition radars are the Type 120, Type 305A, and Type 305B, all self-propelled high mobility designs carried on licence built Mercedes-Benz NG 80 ‘North Benz’ heavy trucks – a wise decision that provides reliable transport with a low implementation and operating cost. Like the latest generation Russian designs, these radars are built to automatically stabilise on hydraulically deployed legs, and automatically unfold and elevate their antennas using hydraulic rams. The Chinese have yet to comment on deployment and stow times, but five minutes would be a reasonable estimate. In short, these are true ‘hide, shoot and scoot’ designs built for modern war-fighting.

The Type 305B is a variant of the established and relatively new YLC-2V battery acquisition radar, and appears to be the standard for the HQ-9 and HQ-12. This is a modern mechanically steered planar array with electronic beam-steering for height-finding. It is similar to a good number of US and EU radars in this category, but is built for greater mobility in the field, making it harder to engage and destroy.

The Type 120 appears to be entirely new, but substantially based on the recent JY-11B series. Like the Belarus Vostok D/E series, it uses a hydraulically elevated mast to increase low altitude coverage. Interestingly, this design appears to operate in the L-band, unlike the earlier JY-11B, which it otherwise resembles. This change is clearly intended to improve detection range against stealth aircraft and cruise missiles, most of which are difficult to detect at operationally useful ranges in the S-band.

The most interesting of the trio is the Type 305A, which Kopp and Wise assess to be most likely an S-band AESA based the same technology used in the KJ-2000 AWACS and KJ-200 AEW&C AESA radars. This technology makes the radar equivalent in antenna technology to the new Thales-Raytheon Ground Master 400 series - reliable, difficult to jam, and difficult to locate, with agile beam-steering of the kind seen in US systems like the Aegis SPY-1. As we have seen with latest generation Chinese smart bombs, their most advanced products are very close to the US and EU built benchmark-designs.

Export variants of the HQ-9, HQ-12 and nearly all PLA surveillance and acquisition radars have been actively marketed across the world. Latin America has been buying Chinese surveillance radars in significant numbers. In Asia, PRC clients like Pakistan and Myanmar have been sold these technologies, and Pakistan is claimed to be procuring the HQ-9 system.

FD-2000 / HQ-9 SAM - China's Strategic ‘Game Changer’
 
Master Khan.
Do you honestly think IAF will go to war with a 50% serviced fleet of its premiere fighter.
More importantly do you see USA rushing spares in to HELP YOU FIGHT their long term strategic ally india.
Russia & Israel will never let us down in any situation.
IN CONTRAST with your premiere fighter the F16 will be threatened by sanctions/embargos you as they have done this numerous times already.

Ok, so a lot of this thread here had my input in a different thread about IAF's numerical superiority over the years and PAF's strategy, which is a fact and the PAF needs to do something about it.
But here, reading like 11 of your posts, it almost seems like you think the PAF is flying Horse-Wagons vs. the Mighty IAF....
Allow me to shed some light......whether you break PAF's intercept fleet into half or they break the SU fleet in half.....this will have no ending. At some point, the red button will be threatened to be pressed and uncle Sam will put his boot up everyone's as* to stop. And that's the sad reality so no one wins, irrespective of how much damage there may be and how much jets are downed or saved!!!
So your argument about how US, Israel and the Russians won''t come to play.....is wrong.
Israel has never involved itself in Indo-Pak wars. They know doing so would make Pakistan toy with Saudia and there is an unsaid pact between Israel and Pakistan to allow each other to live.....even with the religious sentiment involved and with Saudia's friendly relations to Pakistan and India's towards Israel. So Israel doesn't need to be involved nor it wants to. It may still supply weapons to India but Israel isn't the size of the US or Russia so no direct involvement.
Russians.....their power projection is limited to flying propeller driven bombers around Alaska and around UK's shored. In a conflict, neighter they have strong enough of a say nor they have the might to stop or start anything. They will still give weapons to who they like and will make statements but that's it.

At the end, uncle Sam will come and put the boot up the as* so everyone can calm down. You can believe that :usflag:

Next, I agree that Pakistan is nowhere near half the "trade-important" for the US. But it is VERY strategic, in fact both India and Pakistan are very strategic for the US in their own way. India to counter some of China (emphasis on some) and Pakistan to keep the Islamic world, next door Iran, then Afghanistan and countries like Saudia, etc on US's side, as Pakistan is the only nuclear armed muslim country. A fact that no one can change and thus, no war can be won here unless both the countries want to loose half billion people, trade, industry and the economy and go back 50 year till the next 50 years!!

Now after the strategic part, let's see............combine 70 -16's with AMRAAMs and SAM systems, etc. You don't think 50 - 60 SU-30's can be downed? I think it is a VERY likely case. The IAF will be the invading force and it'll have to deal with the rain of SAMS and all. The PAF (even with less numbers) will have more fighters to intercept as in a defensive posture, you are not escorting strike packages. So the moral, financial and other implications of losing 60-70 SU's would be HUGE. Its like if the US went to war somewhere and that someone made mashed potatoes out of the -15......huge blow to confidence, moral issues and expensive $$.
Now JFT.....I know its a small plane but heck....it throws in two BVR's.....per inbound SU. Both will be playing with BVR missiles and may never see each other. So what benefit does it bring to be small or big or super big in this case?

Like I said...At the end, uncle Sam will come and put the boot up the as* so everyone can calm down. You can believe that :usflag:

Oh and I've said it many times. The PAF needs 400 4th Gen planes, similar to the -16 or heavies like the -15 or J-11. I think the J-11 and the J-31 might be a good combo and it'll happen one day
 
The PAF needs 400 4th Gen planes, similar to the -16 or heavies like the -15 or J-11. I think the J-11 and the J-31 might be a good combo and it'll happen one day
And how will the PAF afford such things?
 
by pimping your sorry asses you mofos what's your fetish with our finances?
It's a perfectly logical question because for all the day-dreaming and fantasising that goes on here by the Pakistani members at all comes down to $$$. Without the finances there is literally no point in even engaging in these discussions. Sorry if the truth hurts.
 
I think a lot of Pakistanis while comparing airforce are not counting a very important factor in which India has overwhelming superiority over Pakistan, SAMs.

India has S-300, Spyder,Barak, Aakash,and BUK while Pakistan has none ie no heavy SAM, just MANPADS.
 
And how will the PAF afford such things?

Probably just like how India did it. Till 1995 people weren't getting fed properly and the biggest worry in Indian house holds was what will happen to the country and to its so many people (and growing population). Then, the BPO came in and the IT industry kicked in. Mr. Rao and Mr. Singh had some vision and it worked as they were sincere to the country. I remember some meetings with folks from India back then, India has made tremendous progress in mere 2 decades! I think the Pakistanis can do so too. The genetics are the same and the brain activity is also above average in both the countries.

Just like India, all it would takes is ONE good government who can put in rock solid foundation and a strong strategy. The current gov't of Pakistan is doing just that. In fact, let's see, as of today, they got the Chinese to agree to invest $ 45 Billion. The gov't of Pakistan is telling foreign investors a guaranteed IR of 30%. So factor that in, if the ROI starts on within the next 3-5 years, 30% on $ 45 Billion is 13 Billion dollars....add the tax increase, jobs created, economic jump start this would create, taking out a few billion to invest into weapon's purchases is actually pretty simple at that point.

If the Pakistani population can ALLOW its government to work (like how the entire India is allowing Modi to work), you'll start to see a new Pakistan in makings within the next 2-3 years. The additional 50 -16's or J-11's are JUST a couple of years away (if their democratically elected government can continue working like they have been, even with challenges that are stupid to even write about).
 
I think a lot of Pakistanis while comparing airforce are not counting a very important factor in which India has overwhelming superiority over Pakistan, SAMs.

India has S-300, Spyder,Barak, Aakash,and BUK while Pakistan has none ie no heavy SAM, just MANPADS.

I agree. I've been writing about it for a while now. To create a decent deterrence that would ensure that the Red button will never be pressed, Pakistan needs to create parity with India's conventional might. 400 4th/4.5 gen jets and a few squadrons of Stealthy J-31 (or watered down JSF) would do the trick, along with internally made long range SAMS in 3 tiers. SAMS and more updated jets are really needed at this time. Hopefully it'll start to come together in the next few years as the economy improves.
 
I agree. I've been writing about it for a while now. To create a decent deterrence that would ensure that the Red button will never be pressed, Pakistan needs to create parity with India's conventional might. 400 4th/4.5 gen jets and a few squadrons of Stealthy J-31 (or watered down JSF) would do the trick, along with internally made long range SAMS in 3 tiers. SAMS and more updated jets are really needed at this time. Hopefully it'll start to come together in the next few years as the economy improves.

"Optimism doesn't wait on facts. It deals with prospects"- A very poignant quote given your post. Though I have my doubts on this being more deluded fantasy than optimism. But then again, they say there is only a fine line separating the two.

You seriously imagine a country, India, with 10 times the GDP of Pakistan, would allow any form of conventional parity? That too when Pakistan is trying to drag itself out of a financial mess?

But that is just the present. The future is even bleaker. The I.A.F. will fairly soon begin putting up written requests to raise the sanctioned squadron strength to 53-55. Those are the kind of numbers they are looking at, at the very least, for a post 2030 world. But that's just the IAF. By 2030, the IN air group plans to match the P.A.F. on it's own.

Fact is, unless India suffers the equivalent of the great depression, and Pakistan the resurgence of Germany & Japan post WW2, there will never be any conventional parity between the two. Well, even that might not be enough.
 
"Optimism doesn't wait on facts. It deals with prospects"- A very poignant quote given your post. Though I have my doubts on this being more deluded fantasy than optimism. But then again, they say there is only a fine line separating the two.

You seriously imagine a country, India, with 10 times the GDP of Pakistan, would allow any form of conventional parity? That too when Pakistan is trying to drag itself out of a financial mess?

But that is just the present. The future is even bleaker. The I.A.F. will fairly soon begin putting up written requests to raise the sanctioned squadron strength to 53-55. Those are the kind of numbers they are looking at, at the very least, for a post 2030 world. But that's just the IAF. By 2030, the IN air group plans to match the P.A.F. on it's own.

Fact is, unless India suffers the equivalent of the great depression, and Pakistan the resurgence of Germany & Japan post WW2, there will never be any conventional parity between the two. Well, even that might not be enough.
Bro you better hope that India hits a depression and real soon too...because if the disparity between Pakistan and India in conventional warfare is too great then I see plenty of mushrooms in India's future.
 

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