Possible steps to counter the rising threat from IAF ?

[Dr. Strangelove]

we seriously lack a long range anti air defence system we should have a system like hq-9

 

[Dazzler]

According to the Parliamentary Standing Committee on Defence (15th Lok Sabha), the present number of combat squadron has dwindled to 34 against the sanction strength of 42. Moreover, the number is likely to reduce further to 31 during the 12th Plan (2012-2017).
But IAF has a clear and correct plan.., That is the IAF has made a two-prong approach: upgrading existing fighters (MiG-29, Jaguar and Mirage 2000) while inducting new ones. The aim of the IAF is to increase its combat squadron strength to 40-42 by the end of 14th Plan (2022-27) and eventually to 45 squadrons by the 15th Plan (2027-2032)..
Mig29, mirage 2000, jaguar upgrades+ more su30mki+ Dassault Rafale+ LCA mk2+Sukhoi HAL PMF+ HAL AMCA etc..
IAF plans are clear..
The question is how PAF counter it??
Now only 50 JF17 block2 is before us..
Same applicable to other assets also..
Also how can we compare 50 million dollar/aircraft mirage 2k upgrade with 6million/aircraft f16mlu upgrade??

is it 2022 yet? not interested in fantasy parade, wait 2022, you may have to deal with j-31s as well.

 

[NKVD]

is it 2022 yet? not interested in fantasy parade, wait 2022, you may have to deal with j-31s as well.

Due you really have funds to operate J-31 or you are punching in air

 

[Derolo]

Mig-21 bison should not be ignored. The last batch of Mig-21 Bison was inducted in 2002 so its not aging anytime soon.
The Jaguar after the upgrade will be many time the threat it was.
The Su-30mki after upgrade will cease to have the ongoing issues as it will get better engines.

So another 5 years from now expect a brand new IAF with mostly the same planes

Oh and the Rafale as well

 

[MilSpec]

last i heard the IAF sqdrn strength was depleting even below the all time low of 34, i guess they should be worried hiw to counter a qualitative AWACS and AAR equipped PAF, nothing could be more worse then the 90s, a decade that taught hard lessons and the art of countering the enemy against heavy odds.

you might have missed the fact that although there is a sharp decline in sqdn strength, mig21 and mig23 sqdns that have been decommissioned have been replaced with SU30MKI's.... along with that Mirage 2000H and Mig29M are undergoing upgrades to become fully multirole platforms. All IAF platforms have BVR capabilities, and completely integrated with the AWACS platforms.
Not to mention Two additional squads of Naval mig29K's.

 

[Pakistani shaheens]

I think we should put stress on making more aircraft factories like PAC. And should encourage local made aircrafts instead of relying on foreign expensive crafts.

 

[Dazzler]

you might have missed the fact that although there is a sharp decline in sqdn strength, mig21 and mig23 sqdns that have been decommissioned have been replaced with SU30MKI's.... along with that Mirage 2000H and Mig29M are undergoing upgrades to become fully multirole platforms. All IAF platforms have BVR capabilities, and completely integrated with the AWACS platforms.
Not to mention Two additional squads of Naval mig29K's.

to be concise, the situation today for PAF is leaps and bounds better than what it was in the 90s.I dont go into numbers count but IAF has had, likely to have an upper hand in that regime but no edge in technology in foreseeable future unless FGFA is inducted while PAF has no 5th gen to counter it.

 

[farhan_9909]

Due you really have funds to operate J-31 or you are punching in air

Do you think,Pakistan GDP remain so?just watch out the increase after the base year change.you might have to deal with aircraft carrier in the future

 

[The SC]

There are many possibilities to counter the Indian superiority in numbers; in the short term,The J-20s are always an option, and they are being mass produced in China, Some used F-16s to be MLUed is another option, and some few squadrons of mirage 2Ks-9 are a possibility too, but the main and best option at hand is the JF-17 with an AESA radar, with accelerated production that should be around 18 /year in Pakistan and 25 or more/year in China, that makes it 43 /year, in two years, that is 86 of them and in 4 years that will be 172 of them flying under PAFcolors, the production will continue until reaching the desired numbers of around 300 JF-17s block 2 and 3 (that is another one to two years of production; totaling 5 to 6 years from now), in the mean time all the other short term options will be on the table too, adding the likely possibility of inducting the J-31s.
That is for light and medium weight fighter planes, combined with more AWACSs (lets say 10 in total), it will alleviate the need for heavies. But I will still go for 2 to 3 Squadrons of heavies, although some conventional missiles can do a part of their job but not all.
The other focus is on the air defense capabilities, the short, medium and long range SAM systems; The SPADA is a good system, I do not know if Pakistan has its ToT, but from what I have seen on the net, many Chinese systems are being evaluated in the 3 different ranges. Approval and induction should be accelerated, since the Chinese systems are most certainly quite potent, otherwise Turkey who has some very high standards in choosing its weapon systems would not have signed a deal to acquire them.
These are the most realistic ways to counter any air superiority threat , and they are at hand. So there is no need to worry.
Even the PN has made a request for 30 JF-17, because it knows it can get them. The induction of the 6 Qing class submarines will also alleviate much of the burden put on the PN fleet of warships.

 

[Pak_Sher]

PAF should not underestimate any adversary while preparing for the worst.

 

[MilSpec]

to be concise, the situation today for PAF is leaps and bounds better than what it was in the 90s.I dont go into numbers count but IAF has had, likely to have an upper hand in that regime but no edge in technology in foreseeable future unless FGFA is inducted while PAF has no 5th gen to counter it.

If you think Induction of rafale's do not give a technological edge to IAF, then it's your choice... Who am I to argue, an overconfident adversary is always good news for us.

Do you think,Pakistan GDP remain so?just watch out the increase after the base year change.you might have to deal with aircraft carrier in the future

That might be a possibility in the future.... But looking at your traditional trends in Defense allocations, doesn't look like PN will get this opportunity anytime soon. And if does happen, by then you will have to contend with 3 IN CBG's

 

[HRK]

Guys after been reading the posts in thread "JF-17 Thunder Multirole fighter [ thread 6 ] " i think its important for us to discuss the weakness of our Airforce ... and also the possible solution with proper facts and figure , based on reality .. not on assumption .
Our Navy and Air force , are far behind their possible enemy , and there is no upcoming plans to deter any possible threat ...

IAF already has some 200+ Mki which is itself a air superiority fighter , along with mirage 2ks and Jaguars .. the challenge for PAF is much bigger than they think. ..

PAF has some 73 F-16's , 50 Jfs and 150+ F-7's and 60+ mirage III-IV ROSE //but are they enough to secure our Air space from the rising threat from our neighbors ?

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As some of the members here show concern about a possible full scale war , where our Air force is standing ??
here one thing we have to keep in mind that we dont even have a potent Air defense network , or SAM's , the only potent SAM we are operating is SPADA-2000 but is that enough ??

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what i believe that our CM's are able to hit forward and deep bases across the border but are they enough ?? does the creation of N-weapons means that now we should not focus on any conventional systems ??
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Obviously its not easy to launch a Nuclear strike on a country , we are not USA and dont have ability to sustain the possible outcome of a Nuclear war ....

so today or even in future the war will remain Conventional , where our Air force lacks some technology gaps and also heavily outnumbered from their enemy ..

what i want to discuss that what can PAF do to deter this threat , should we go for stop gaps , invest in long term projects , or short term ?? buy med and long range SAM's or buying some Used 4+ and 4++ fighters .. ?!

keep the budget of PAF in mind please before anyone suggest something .. so as i mentioned the solution should not be unrealistic ..

This thread is not a Vs thread for trolls , nor i am assuming any War scenario right now .. ...
so any attempt to troll will result in report and banned from the thread ..

You have yourself enlisted the IAF current inventory of true BVR capable Air superiority / multirole fighter Jet (MKI+MiG-29+Mirage, excluding JAGs and MiG-21) which is around 400 as of now, In addition to IAF include Indian Naval Air Arm is also a threat or least is a burden to PAF 'existing assets'.

And against those 400+ aircraft we have only 124 'lightweight' multirole 'BVR capable' fighter Jets (keep in mind that JF-17 & SD-10 are relatively new and unproven systems), we further need to understand that in next 3 years (2015-2017) India is not going to induct any new fighter aircraft in IAF or IN air arm and would be busy in modernization of some of its fleet, for PAF only known induction during this time period is JF-17 block-II (only 50 in numbers), so these 3 years provide us the 'window of opportunity' in which we can 'narrow the gap' of BVR capable fighters after that with the start of induction of new Jets it will again increase, but for that we 'might' have the option of Chines 5th gen jet available to us. (during 5-7+ years timeline)

So from the above two para we concluded that in next 3 years we will have to face +400 Indian BVR capable fighters which can pose 'serious threat' to us, but if we choose to induct any new platform additionally as heavy fighters Air superiority role same as suggested by MastanKhan & Orangzaib 'at least' 60 in numbers, during this time frame, we can effectively 'kill' any 'India specific threat' against Pakistan in 'short run'.

For any threat perception in middle to long run we just need to do the same as it is done by many nations, induct SAM sys, raise separate Air arm for Naval defence and 'increase' the numbers to appropriate level to counter threats including 'Potential Threats' not just specific threat

For example: Is Afghanistan a threat to us today, answer is 'no', but can it be used to escalate the threat for limited time period ??? in my opinion answer is 'yes'

 

[Imran Khan]

i have best counter

bring back peace and have peace deal

 

[HRK]

i have best counter

bring back peace and have peace deal

At what 'COST' ... for 'both parties' ... ??

 

[MilSpec]

You have yourself enlisted the IAF current inventory of true BVR capable Air superiority / multirole fighter Jet (MKI+MiG-29+Mirage, excluding JAGs and MiG-21)

That is incorrect
Mig 21 Bison - BVR capable - R77 RVV AE

Jaguar SEPECAT: Will undergo upgrades to receive Multi mode radar and will feature BVR capability with DARIN III upgrades.