Possible Russian S-400 sale to India and Pakistan's Response.

[jung41]

A truck load of burnol

 

[Khanivore]

@The Deterrent @Bratva @Indus Falcon @Oscar

As per my personal opinion the most logical way to counter S-400 is MaRV and MiRV warheads for our Shaheen series. There is no credible defense available against MiRV missile attack.

Another way is to saturate airspace with drones during any event, mimicking fighter aircraft signals to create serious headache for the S-400 system. It's a good system but it's bound to have weaknesses.

 

[Maarkhoor]

Another way is to saturate airspace with drones during any event, mimicking fighter aircraft signals to create serious headache for the S-400 system. It's a good system but it's bound to have weaknesses.

Israel uses this technique in yomkpur war successfully engaging Russian provided SAMs with small drones sending radar signal as a jet fighter before they reload their Sams Israeli fighter jet bombed the Egyptian SAMs.

Like what type available???

read post #56

 

[Ragnarok connection]

I respect your views but only a fool can think to strike enemy with conventional warhead specially India and Pakistan. Ballistic missile mean with nuclear warhead in Pakistan / India War.


Regards,

I disagree with your comment, It would be a smarter option to first overwhelm Indian defenses by launching MIRV payloads (these can be either with dummy/nuclear/ or conventional warheads), their main purpose would be to overwhelm, and then launch multiple MARV or regular nuclear payload missiles. This all has to be in quick succession.
I doubt India and Pakistan would rely solely on MIRV tech, as they are unsure of the yield of the smaller sized warheads of MIRV payload. So, it would be a good idea to use these MIRV's as bait, and put your actual nuclear payloads in other single RV payload missiles.

 

[Sinnerman108]

In my opinion, some of the counter-measures could be to:
1. Accelerate development of MIRVed ballistic missile system with at least 3 RVs.
2. Develop decoys & counter measures for RVs for missiles in development (Shaheen-IA, Shaheen-III).
3. Develop MaRVs for existing systems (Shaheen-IA, Shaheen-II, Shaheen-III).
4. Develop very low-observable (stealthier) versions of existing Babur & Ra'ad cruise missiles.
5. Produce more conventional ballistic & cruise missiles.
6. Buy J-31 for PAF to deploy in SEAD ops against S-400 batteries.
7. Buy land-based CX-1 cruise missile for supersonic capability.
8. Research & develop ADM-160 MALD -like decoy missiles.

Think about it this way,

Assume we counter S400; then what ?

 

[Maarkhoor]

I disagree with your comment, It would be a smarter option to first overwhelm Indian defenses by launching MIRV payloads (these can be either with dummy/nuclear/ or conventional warheads), their main purpose would be to overwhelm, and then launch multiple MARV or regular nuclear payload missiles. This all has to be in quick succession.
I doubt India and Pakistan would rely solely on MIRV tech, as they are unsure of the yield of the smaller sized warheads of MIRV payload. So, it would be a good idea to use these MIRV's as bait, and put your actual nuclear payloads in other single RV payload missiles.

As I mentioned earlier only a fool can think to strike enemy with conventional ballistic missiles. Especially India / Pakistan war scenario.

 

[Blue Marlin]

S-400 is a defensive weapon, how can a sam be deployed against another sam?

what!? how can a sam be used against another sam? sam is short of surface to air missile.
it is used for ariel targets such as: srbm's [mrbm's aster 30 blk2 only 3000km range max] and jets and cruise
missiles.

Question is what is the Pakistani Response after S-400 Sale.

1. So why India Buyed S-400, if she had Akash 1/2, Spyder, Barak

a) Against Pakistani fighter Planes -- Yes, unless paf goes offensive
b) Against Awaac -- May be
c) Against Stealth threat in future -- Yes, but pakistan don't have any 5th gen bird
d) Against Cruise missile -- yes
e) Against Ballastic Missile -- yes for short range ballastic missile as ABM
f) Against Hypersonic Recce planes -- May be but again Pakistan don't have that
g) Against Supersonic Antiship Missile -- No, not effective better with Barak 8
h) Against low altitute Spy Satellite -- May be but pakistan don't have

a) pakstan has anti radar missiles: mar-1 which wll be used of the fj-17 and the mirage rose 3 and 5 as they are for low altitude strikes mirage rose 2-3, or in short below radar range.
also pakistan may have the Chinese cm-102 anti radar
missile, so thats a problem too.

b)awacs- i doubt paf is not stupid enough to put awacs near adversarial sam's [common sense]

c) no they don't -your right on that.

d) cruise missiles, yes but a othr is required to detect it. and engage it.

e) yes that seems right.

f,g) whys is the barak 8 better than the s400? also the cm-400 is hypersonic [mach 5.5] don't know its
capabilities

h)they use third party satellites (Chinese) and i think they leased one from Boeing a while ago but thats not a los.

So in short S-400 gives india long range offensive weapon against Awaac, High altitute Recce Plane, short to medium range ballastic missile, cruise missile, and anti-satellite capability.

Of which anti Awaac is the prominent threat, no doubt about that, apart from that threat for her cruise missiles, and short and medium ballistic Missile.

Response should be :
a) More Awaac with turbojet engine, rather than prop platform with countermeasures, and more Radar range.
b) Supersonic/hypersonic Cruise Missile something in the league of Brahmos.
c) For Fighter planes F-18 Growler.
d) Aesa based Jammers and Aerial Decoy
e) Dedicated Ground attack fighter plane with Nav Attack for Offensive.

Thanks and regards

a) refer to part of the first section. also it brings little effect being turboprop, a jet engine will have a greater heat signature making it a good target for wraam's which have ir seekers. turboprops may be target to radars. but prop designs are advancing so the props distort radars signals and most of them do, already and the props being composite they either absorb or redirect the radar signals. the best example of this is a wind farm. they give hell to jets and satellites.

b) i dont imagine pakistan buying the cx-1, theres no need. not worth the change. besides stealth is the greatest weapon not speed.

c-d) paf has the Dassault falcon which as ecm and esm warfare caplets and the saab erieye also has electronic warfare
capabilities

e) the Dassault mirage rose 2-3 is developed for that reason also along with anti radar capabilities

don't you think the aster 30 can do what the s400 can do? the s400 is a beast not doubt but i think the aster 30 blk2 is better.

 

[Maarkhoor]

Think about it this way,

Assume we counter S400; then what ?

Then we can strike where ever we want in India.

 

[The Deterrent]

Think about it this way,

Assume we counter S400; then what ?

Pakistan needs the capability to counter S-400, not actually start a war for the purpose of countering it. This is how deterrence works.

As I mentioned earlier only a fool can think to strike enemy with conventional ballistic missiles. Especially India / Pakistan war scenario.

That is not the case in Indo/Pak scenario. The flight time of ballistic missiles is too less, so each opponent's launch forces will have to wait for the detonation to actually happen before the higher command issues orders for a retaliatory strike. Besides, both Pakistan & Indian strategic weapons are not as mature as US/Russian/Chinese, and cannot be kept at ready-to-launch status at all times. It takes a significant amount of time to actually launch a missile after the order has arrived.

 

[Khanivore]

Israel uses this technique in yomkpur war successfully engaging Russian provided SAMs with small drones sending radar signal as a jet fighter before they reload their Sams Israeli fighter jet bombed the Egyptian SAMs.

All the reason why Pakistani drones program will now most likely be accelerated. We have to also remember the Russians will never export the actual S-400 but downgraded one instead.

 

[Ragnarok connection]

As I mentioned earlier only a fool can think to strike enemy with conventional ballistic missiles. Especially India / Pakistan war scenario.

A way bigger fool would rely on MIRV payload with untested miniaturized warheads with speculative yields.

 

[Maarkhoor]

All the reason why Pakistani drones program will now most likely be accelerated. We have to also remember the Russians will never export the actual S-400 but downgraded one instead.

I don't think so Russian are that fool to destroy their reputation by providing downgrade weapons but the quality standards are not as high as US
.

 

[jung41]

Tactical weapon taitai pisssss

 

[Maarkhoor]

A way bigger fool would rely on MIRV payload with untested miniaturized warheads with speculative yields.
If this point doesn't get across to you, nothing can.
Good bye

Whol told you that weapons are not tested Pakistan conducted 6th test of that kind of warhead, as soon as they develop MiRV tech they will conduct series of tests before production.

 

[jung41]

Ab to tactical weapon wale ghaas khaiyange