Possible Russian S-400 sale to India and Pakistan's Response.

[zebra7]

there no response for pakistan yet, the hq-9 series is ok, but i heard the eurosam consortium may be offering a solution.
hence the army chief was looking at italian sam's whilst on his visit to italy. it's a ground based aster 30 variant

S-400 is a defensive weapon, how can a sam be deployed against another sam.

Question is what is the Pakistani Response after S-400 Sale.

1. So why India Buyed S-400, if she had Akash 1/2, Spyder, Barak

a) Against Pakistani fighter Planes -- Yes, unless paf goes offensive
b) Against Awaac -- May be
c) Against Stealth threat in future -- Yes, but pakistan don't have any 5th gen bird
d) Against Cruise missile -- yes
e) Against Ballastic Missile -- yes for short range ballastic missile as ABM
f) Against Hypersonic Recce planes -- May be but again Pakistan don't have that
g) Against Supersonic Antiship Missile -- No, not effective better with Barak 8
h) Against low altitute Spy Satellite -- May be but pakistan don't have

So in short S-400 gives india long range offensive weapon against Awaac, High altitute Recce Plane, short to medium range ballastic missile, cruise missile, and anti-satellite capability.

Of which anti Awaac is the prominent threat, no doubt about that, apart from that threat for her cruise missiles, and short and medium ballistic Missile.

Response should be :
a) More Awaac with turbojet engine, rather than prop platform with countermeasures, and more Radar range.
b) Supersonic/hypersonic Cruise Missile something in the league of Brahmos.
c) For Fighter planes F-18 Growler.
d) Aesa based Jammers and Aerial Decoy
e) Dedicated Ground attack fighter plane with Nav Attack for Offensive.

Thanks and regards

 

[Vyom]

I am just answering the post. it is always to ignore troll posts.

On topic:

There is only one way to counter S400 overwhelm them. Exhaust their capacity. Even During recent war in Middle east deployment of forces. The theoretical capabilities (and from what NATO learnt from a Greek S-300 battery) make the west treat the S-400 with immense respect. The mere mention of the S-300 / 400 deploying in a certain country has altered the perception of strategic balances in the middle east.

 

[Ice Cube]

pak could try and go for the Chinese S-300, the HQ-9 ?

 

[Moonlight]

Do Pakistan really need to give any response? I guess NO. Because both are independent courtiers and need to have international relations with different ways. Pakistan should not even seem to give any glance and let them feel we are strong enough to encounter our land. My opinion!

 

[Indus Falcon]

I think we should deploy 75% of our S-400 systems to Pakistan border as chances of war with China is low.

Actually pooling all your assets in one area is a very good idea!! Go for it

 

[Death In Fire]

Actually pooling all your assets in one area is a very good idea!! Go for it

They will spread over multiple locations.
2 in Rajasthan,2 Punjab,2 Kashmir,1 Gujarat

 

[Vyom]

So is this a slandering thread now? S400 countermeasures anybody ?

They will spread over multiple locations.
2 in Rajasthan,2 Punjab,2 Kashmir,1 Gujarat

One in each state is enough, to secure 100 km of No fly zone inside Pakistani airspace. Interesting will be their counter measures. What state of the art they will but to counter these. and how much will it cost.

 

[Indus Falcon]

They will spread over multiple locations.
2 in Rajasthan,2 Punjab,2 Kashmir,1 Gujarat

Like I said, good idea. Go for it!

 

[Moonlight]

and your RAW sending flowers from Afghanistan to karachi and Baluchistan you cow dick

So you want to say that Samjhauta express incident is fine? Killing civilians on border on daily basis is fine? Have we ever attacked first?

 

[Sine Nomine]

1. Another terrorist attack by Pakistani terrorism factory on Indian soil, warranting a response
2. Another military misadventure by Pakistan like Kargil, Operation Gibraltar etc

Did anything like that happened in 1971 and Siachen?

One in each state is enough, to secure 100 km of No fly zone inside Pakistani airspace. Interesting will be their counter measures. What state of the art they will but to counter these. and how much will it cost.

Using a SAM to implement no-fly zone on Pakistan in not good idea,simply a decoy,a missile to destroy it and location of battery is revealed.

 

[PARIKRAMA]

I posted in the other forum
India seals Rs 70,000 crores missile deal with Russia : MOD sources | Page 10
There i tried to say honestly the position vesrus both Pakistan and China. i am posting just an excerpt here which is what i felt for pakistan. i had invited there few esteemded sirs for their opinions too..

For next 5-10 years, the ability of say Pakistan to deploy a much heavier tonnage weapon delivery system with a warhead of say 1.5 tonnes to 3 tonnes over a 3500-4000 kms with MIRV becomes a new challenge.. And i am sure they will respond to it appropriately. The only factor to consider is development of a new missile or augmentation from an existing platform. Secondly, Development of MIRV tech with at least 3 warheads to 10 warheads is the new tech frontier which they will have to invest (resources - time and money both). Of course if China can part this tech to Pak it becomes easier but i highly doubt that.. The range i dont see beyond what i mentioned (IRBM with MIRV) as developing a much larger range with MIRV seems a far cost centric approach and approaching ICBM range has global issues too

Another point
2. A cost intensive research and developement of a proper vehicle for Pak is now the most realistic solution for getting through the BMD especially in saturation mode. That will take time for development and production in large numbers unless research and tech is outsourced.


Side note:
S400 system design philosophy
Lemanskiy et al state that definition of the S-400 design was performed jointly by the designers and the Russian MoD, with specific capability foci in:

• Defeating threats at low and very low flight altitudes;
• Dealing with the overall reduction of target signatures resulting from the pervasive use of stealth technology;
• Dealing with the increase in target quantities resulting from the widspread use of UAVs;
• Applying all means to defeat advanced jammers employed by opponents;
• Surviving in an environment where PGMs are used widely;
• Accommodating an environment where an increasing number of nations are deploying TBMs and IRBMs.

Lemanskiy et al observed that several key imperatives were followed during the design process:

• An open system architecture with a high level of modularity, intended to permit follow-on capability growth in the design;
• Multirole capabilities and the capacity for integration with legacy IADS technologies;
• Suitability for the air defence of fixed infrastructure targets, as well as manoeuvre forces;
• Suitability for integration with naval surface combatants;
• The ability to exploit legacy missile rounds already in operational use;
• High operational mobility and deployability;
• High lethality and jam resistance;

There imperatives were applied to the design of configurations for the Russian Armed Forces and for export clients.

Export variants of the S-400 Triumf are intended to destroy opposing stand-off jammer aircraft, AWACS/AEW&C aircraft, reconnaissance and armed reconnaissance aircraft, cruise missile armed strategic bombers, cruise missiles, Tactical, Theatre and Intermediate Range Ballistic Missiles, and any other atmospheric threats, all in an intensive Electronic Counter Measures environment
Almaz-Antey 40R6 / S-400 Triumf / SA-21 SAM System /Самоходный Зенитный Ракетный Комплекс 40Р6 / С-400 'Триумф'
(this source is more of 2010 timeline)

The system can engage all types of aerial targets including aircraft, unmanned aerial vehicles (UAV), and ballistic and cruise missiles within the range of 400km
S-400 Triumph Air Defence Missile System - Army Technology

Thus my view that CMs wont do, you need MIRVed missiles with at least 3 MIRV config and saturation attack implying at least 100+ IRBMs with 100x3 = 300 MIRV to take out the main targets and also fail the BMD system

 

[zebra7]

Babur is old tech Ok and you fail to produce one (nirbhay) and tell me Brahmos is more sophisticated Ok when your able to produce more sophisticated cruise missile why the hell you fail to produce less capable missile.
Brahmos is merely a copy of Russian missile.


@waz
Pls check this troll

Irfit Bhai What do you want from this thread, if you keep on reporting the ones whose answer don't please you, then it would only be the chest thumping and bragging threat. He replied a decent answer, if you have doubt ask him

 

[Mrc]

Mirv...or
Marv should be standard configuration....
J31 procurement shud b put on fast track and

Explore possibilty of diamond shaped stealth or low observeable reemtry vehicle

 

[Viper0011.]

Without going into the utter hilarity of YOU calling others trolls, how was it trolling? The only two cases a war can start is

1. Another terrorist attack by Pakistani terrorism factory on Indian soil, warranting a response
2. Another military misadventure by Pakistan like Kargil, Operation Gibraltar etc

Once Pakistan desists from the above two, they have effectively countered all Indian weapons, Triumf included.

What about RAW's terrorism into Baluchistan, KPK and Karachi, and one day, Pakistan getting super pissed as the Indian trained terrorists kill Pakistani children and civilians mercilessly, and Pakistan retaliating in some fashion????

You didn't provide a 3rd case. Which was the more realistic one in today's environment.

 

[Icarus]

Reported for reporting a mis-reported post

Reports reported for reporting a mis-reported report are disregarded.

Only use the report button when there is genuine grounds to report a gross-violation of forum rules. By flooding the reports cue for satisfying your ego, you only serve to drive the level of moderation down by driving attention away from genuine reports.

@banvanaxl @Ifrit