Possible Russian S-400 sale to India and Pakistan's Response.

[zebra7]

first of all your not indian, your Colombian don't be ashamed of you ancestry. the s400's range is not 600km its 6000km, you forgot an extra 0, stupid Colombian.
radars
the range of the 48N6E2 is: 195 km - old and obsolete
the range of the 48N6E3 is 250 km - decent mid class ok
the range of the ELM-2090U is 500km - its an abm and used for strategic (large) assets


missiles
the akash is ancient we develop that thing in the 60's, there are in museums im talking about the blood hound sam
barak is a decent mid range naval sam
missiles
the 77n6-1 is not even ready yet there's only one battalion operational, and thats outside Moscow. not even export capable. its beyond mtcr regs. so if they do export it, the range will only be 350km max.

besides i heard otherwise, i heard india is getting the 48N6DM missile instead, why dont you enlighten us and provide a source instead of talking out of your @$$.

besides our aster blk30 will beat anything the Russians have to offer.

Mate why are you getting provoked just avoid it. I don't care, and many indian won't care whether you are pakistani or kenyan in the discussion.

Beside Akash missile, its complete 1 generation behind the modern SAM i.e its not a vertical launch, canister launch, but what makes its good, and distinctive is the capable Rajendra Radar capable of tracking 64 target, and the very fact its highly mobile and could move with the armour force in the battle. It has the same seeker Aggat which Chinese uses in their BVR PL-12 and many SAM. Only weakness is that its not active, which is removed in Akash -2

Barak -8 is very capable LSAM, and new version is 100km capable, which is designed to take the maneuvering supersonic thread like cruise missile. What makes it distinctive, is the high agility and 50G capability, and vertical launch, ready to fire in quick reaction, and miniature powerful cpu with the algorithm, which are created by the israel with long experience. There is no doubt that it is equivalent to Astor -30 block 0/1.
Land version haven't been ordered yet, but there won't be any problem to do so, if need arises. Couple with Spyder SAM, its a potent and deadly SAM system, and there is no doubt about it.

 

[The Deterrent]

@PARIKRAMA
Are you sure the range of S-400 mentioned as 400km in '99 is still the same? Because the recent pamphlet images/illustrations stated its anti-aircraft range as 200km and ABM range as 60km.

 

[Mughal-Prince]

bhai ji mai sadke apki iss masoomiat pe

View attachment 269325

but bhai ji mai to trolling kerta hi nahi per aap zaroor ker rahe ho per khair koi gal nahi hum bhi yaaron ke yaar hain

Accha baita kerlay harami pun tera number bhi aye ga

 

[GURU DUTT]

Accha baita kerlay harami pun tera number bhi aye ga

sirji mera number aye ya na aaye aap bach ke rehna

 

[Mughal-Prince]

sirji mera number aye ya na aaye aap bach ke rehna

Heheh abay yaar hum tau pehlay hi buchay kuchay hain sumjha kero Poland aur Hungray ki buchion nay aap kay bhai ka kafi najaiyaz estimaal kiya hai ... Mazeed buchnay kay liyay kuch bucha nahin hai.

 

[GURU DUTT]

Heheh abay yaar hum tau pehlay hi buchay kuchay hain sumjha kero Poland aur Hungray ki buchion nay aap kay bhai ka kafi najaiyaz estimaal kiya hai ... Mazeed buchnay kay liyay kuch bucha nahin hai.

bacchaey rahoge to achhe rahogge warna "kaam" me aa jaoge

 

[Stag112]

People are mixing two different things here. Hardware and tactics.

S400 is hardware. Pakistanis are talking about tactics to defeat the S400.

What they are missing is that India will also use S400 with tactics, and not just reveal our positions as and when Pakistan send decoys.

Secondly, and this most Pakistanis have missed here, we are getting the S400 with even longer range Israeli radars, AESA radars, that are not all that easy to track and attack.

Also, India will deploy point defense for our critical installations too. That includes components of S400.

Things were already complicated, with both sides using their networks, AWACS etc, S400 will actually make it even more complicated. In the fog of war, it will not be invincible, but it will create sufficient doubt in our enemies. Certainly they will try to counter it, and we will deploy our own counter-counter measures...

 

[zebra7]

@Mughal-Prince @GURU DUTT Bhai logo aap log hi Batiya Le Yahan Par, Hum Sab chale Jatte Hai, Aur thread ka title Guru and Mughal Chitter-Poo Rakh dete Hai.

 

[GURU DUTT]

@Mughal-Prince @GURU DUTT Bhai logo aap log hi Batiya Le Yahan Par, Hum Sab chale Jatte Hai, Aur thread ka title Guru and Mughal Chitter-Poo Rakh dete Hai.

 

[Stag112]

IAF operates these, to be used for point defense of critical installations. Our S400 sites will have that additional protection against ARM and cruise missiles too. These also operate an Israeli AESA, the same one used in Iron Dome

 

[MilSpec]

So right now AD consists of Net Centric:
SA6 gainful, Akash, S125 Pechora, S200/SA5 Gammon, SA-8 Gecko/ 9k33 OSA, 9k35-Strela10, Spyder, S300PMU II,

Under development/Procurement:
S400, Maitri QRSAM, Astra VLS QRSAM,

 

[shaheenmissile]

But you do realize that it's impossible to make TNW without Plutonium and tritium and elaborate design of boosted fission? As pure uranium implosion type design us too cumbersome to fit on Nasr?
So Pakistan has an elaborate enough design of nukes to be able to fit in a missiles small as Nasr or Babur,which too has small payload capacity compared to a ballistic missile.
So I cannot accept the assumption that only now with shaheen 3 , Pakistan has worked for making smaller warheads with same yield as of larger less elabotate designs.

About RV slowing down after reentry, again i am not too sure,as that should depend on angle of attack and RV design. Llogically speaking, gravity is still pulling the RV and trying to accelerate it,and friction of atmosphere cancelling it , should keep RV speed constant until impact.
But i am not too sure right now,will do some calculations ti find out,when i get time.

The RVs had a twin cone design, not the nose cone/MIRV shroud of the Polaris missile. Here is an illustration:

What I'm trying to say all along and want everyone to understand, is that Shaheen-3 has a smaller RV (the upper half of nose cone) and therefore a smaller warhead. Obviously yield hasn't been compromised, it must be the same as Shaheen-2, otherwise the strategic value of the device will be questioned. This implies that the older U-235 based device has been replaced by a U-235/Pu hybrid or only Pu-based implosion device. Which further means that the RV has been miniaturized enough for an MIRV bus to carry and deliver.

All of this implies that the new RV (of Shaheen-3) is small enough (~70cm at base) to be used in multiple numbers, aboard a larger payload delivering vehicle. So a new missile/variant has to be developed which can deliver 1500-2000 kg payload, with an MIRV bus wide . Trust me, when Pakistan tests a MIRV-capable system and shows its images, we'll know for sure that it is MIRV-capable.


I agree, in space, attitude changes can be made by the current systems. But you have to consider that fuel for thrusters
is quite limited (in case of Shaheen-2), but perhaps not for Shaheen-3, as I said earlier about the possibility of a large hydrazine motor in the lower part of the Shaheen-3 nose cone. This evading maneuver can only work for mid-course interceptors, not terminal ones.


No, thats where most people are wrong. The speed of RVs inside atmosphere is drastically reduced, and the impact is usually around Mach 4-5. So the time is a longer than 20 seconds.
Wrong again, ABM radar continuously track ballistic objects from the moment they detect them (usually in the boost phase in case of Indo-Pak). BMDs are fast enough, there shouldn't be any doubt about their reaction times.
Yes, decoys are where we can effectively fool the ABM and simply over-power its capacity.

 

[Stag112]

So right now AD consists of Net Centric:
SA6 gainful, Akash, S125 Pechora, S200/SA5 Gammon, SA-8 Gecko/ 9k33 OSA, 9k35-Strela10, Spyder, S300PMU II,

Under development/Procurement:
S400, Maitri QRSAM, Astra VLS QRSAM,

Are there any plans to use Barak 8 MR SAM or the ER version for land deployment? May be in a mobile role?

 

[MilSpec]

Are there any plans to use Barak 8 MR SAM or the ER version for land deployment? May be in a mobile role?

don't know.

 

[zebra7]

Are there any plans to use Barak 8 MR SAM or the ER version for land deployment? May be in a mobile role?

till now IA nor IAF hadn't order Land/mobile version. Question is with what Radar -- MF radar or Rajendra Radar ??