Poor Pakistan Producing Third Generation Tanks!

[xyxmt]

I actually do not believe anything our generals say anymore

 

[Bossman]

We dont have steel mills. So this means we import all the materials.

Steel industry produces different types of steel sheets and ingots. So we dont have steel industry, we dont produce the raw material needed for a big scale production.

Checkout the website of Peoples Steel Mills, Karachi steel mills never produced specialized steel and alloys.

 

[The Accountant]

Checkout the website of Peoples Steel Mills, Karachi steel mills never produced specialized steel and alloys.

People steel mill converts one grade of steel into another so @Bossman is right we have to import iron for this as well ...

Furthermore we only manufactured few parts of al khalid ... Its is not necessary that same is being done on vt4 ...

 

[Windjammer]

When there will be fight on the border ... Wow ... When if ...

Sorry my friend but people fight daily and are loosing daily just to win bread for themselves and despite doing all the efforts they are loosing it ... What u have done that war of millions loosing daily ?

Dont give this stupid internet warrior remarks rather than answering a valid remarks ... This very low intellectual honesty that a valid concern raised is answered with character attack ... Didnt expect this from u ..

My argument is simple physical war might happen or might not but economic war we r loosing and our establishment is one of the reason we r loosing economic war. By purchasing luxury items from outside Pakistan. By supporting corrupts in power ... By wasting our money on political engineering ... They r responsible for loosing economic war ..

@Windjammer by the way for ease of your comparison ... Take example of changan, 100% owned subsidiary of norinco (the company originally made this vt4 tank).

They started with assembling military truck for chinese military, got assembly contract of suzuki in china and then they launched own brand of passenger vehicle changan. They are now chinese biggest auto manufacturer of china and are selling level 3 auto cars (tesla is level 4).

This is called development and progress ... So stop cheerleading every step of our inefficient and egoistic military and start taking criticism and use it as a self correction tool rather than kill the person highlighting the issue ...

Dude let me make one thing clear, my late dear father was indeed in Pak Army but he retired in 1970, few uncles also served in the PA but they have also passed away, today I can't think of a single member of my family serving in the armed forces and as for myself, I left Pakistan when I was 12/13, so there's no reason for me to be what you call cheer leading. My Internet warrior remark wasn't directed towards you, however last I checked, this was called Defence forum so I try to contribute and discus defence related matters. I tend not to go with the flow as due to one person's negilgance and malpractices, we have found excuse to point fingers at the whole defence institution. We are indeed on the back burner as far as our economy is concerned but who is at fault here, no doubt the establishment is corrupt to the core and due to these clay footed leaders the country is like a rudderless ship, but we the common people also need to introspect, did the establishment forced our change of habbits, why do we prefer Red bull instead of Roh afza now or go for more costly likes of Honda, Kia or Hyundai instead of some local manufactured vehicle. As for your frivolous question on when and if war will happen, Bhutto once said that Pakistanis live in one of the most dangerous part of the world. Your neighbour to the East hasn't accepted your existence from heart until this day and is always scheming to harm you one way or another, her attempted misadventure on Balakot wasn't a dispute over land or water, it was an attempt to establish her hegemony.
Had we been weak, do you think we would have returned the favour or would the aggressor have stopped when it did... So your enemy will not inform you that he plans to attack you next week. Deterrence... North Korea is another example for you.
As for the likes of PAC, HIT or POF, they must be doing something right to have not just maintained but improved and made progress in their fields... Unlike say PIA or the Steel Mill.
Anyways in a defence forum, I prefer to contribute in defence related subjects rather than anything else.

 

[The Accountant]

Dude let me make one thing clear, my late dear father was indeed in Pak Army but he retired in 1970, few uncles also served in the PA but they have also passed away, today I can't think of a single member of my family serving in the armed forces and as for myself, I left Pakistan when I was 12/13, so there's no reason for me to be what you call cheer leading. My Internet warrior remark wasn't directed towards you, however last I checked, this was called Defence forum so I try to contribute and discus defence related matters. I tend not to go with the flow as due to one person's negilgance and malpractices, we have found excuse to point fingers at the whole defence institution. We are indeed on the back burner as far as our economy is concerned but who is at fault here, no doubt the establishment is corrupt to the core and due to these clay footed leaders the country is like a rudderless ship, but we the common people also need to introspect, did the establishment forced our change of habbits, why do we prefer Red bull instead of Roh afza now or go for more costly likes of Honda, Kia or Hyundai instead of some local manufactured vehicle. As for your frivolous question on when and if war will happen, Bhutto once said that Pakistanis live in one of the most dangerous part of the world. Your neighbour to the East hasn't accepted your existence from heart until this day and is always scheming to harm you one way or another, her attempted misadventure on Balakot wasn't a dispute over land or water, it was an attempt to establish her hegemony.
Had we been weak, do you think we would have returned the favour or would the aggressor have stopped when it did... So your enemy will not inform you that he plans to attack you next week. Deterrence... North Korea is another example for you.
As for the likes of PAC, HIT or POF, they must be doing something right to have not just maintained but improved and made progress in their fields... Unlike say PIA or the Steel Mill.
Anyways in a defence forum, I prefer to contribute in defence related subjects rather than anything else.

My friend you are wrong to assume that defence is possible via arms only ... If this is the case then why USSR broke down ?

PAC, HIT and POF survived as they are being run on tax payer money ... Whatever cost of these defence equipments produced is paid by Pakistani public ... If they r so efficient then why they are unable to compete in international market ? I gave u example of changan that was created for assembly of chinese army trucks and now is one of the biggest auto manufacturer ...

U r not here in Pakistan so u cant feel the pain of people here ... They r in deep trouble and the reason of trouble is military establishment and bajwa ... Asim muneer is also proving to be the similar type of person ...

 

[Imran Khan]

We dont have steel mills. So this means we import all the materials.

Steel industry produces different types of steel sheets and ingots. So we dont have steel industry, we dont produce the raw material needed for a big scale production.

private steel mills can not do it ?

 

[The Accountant]

private steel mills can not do it ?

We dont have a single mill that produce steel from iron ore ... The small private mills convert one form of product to another ...

 

[Imran Khan]

We dont have a single mill that produce steel from iron ore ... The small private mills convert one form of product to another ...

you need to review it sir

IIL doing it

IIL - International Industries Limited

iil.com.pk

 

[Abu Mohammed]

How long till these programs shutdown

We’re on verge of bankruptcy, gas loadshedding has gone crazy in low-income and poor areas of country
Gas shortages or being diverted to politicians/generals only
Roti khaogay to kuch ker paoge….stove he band hogya to kya faida defense ka

Stop whining and get to work to bring some dollars, army and govt cant to sh**t to bring dollars in Pakistan the only option they have are lenders, imf and friendly nations.

We need to get over this culture of investing in real estate and keep our a** secured instead we need to manufacture, produce goods and services create jobs to flourish and no govt or army cant help in that.

And No pakistan is not going to default!

I am not going to give you reasons or logic behind but incase it did go bankrupt i ll come here to personally apologize.

Pakistan Zindabad.

 

[Catalystic]

Stop whining and get to work to bring some dollars, army and govt cant to sh**t to bring dollars in Pakistan the only option they have are lenders, imf and friendly nations.

We need to get over this culture of investing in real estate and keep our a** secured instead we need to manufacture, produce goods and services create jobs to flourish and no govt or army cant help in that.

And No pakistan is not going to default!

I am not going to give you reasons or logic behind but incase it did go bankrupt i ll come here to personally apologize.

Pakistan Zindabad.

I would agree on the realestate part. I’ve always insisted even to my parents as well as others to stop investing in real estate.
Its money parked and useless these days due to economic issues
Unfortunately the decades old mentality of buying plot and waiting fir it to payback is no good.
Want income? Buy a house put it on rent. Or build one to give on rent. Keeping plots doesn’t help and is prone to frauds.
Some family invested in so-called islamabads “ideal residencia”, kept making payments yet now they found the land doesn’t exist or sold to judges. Ye to haal ha, 70 lakhs gone to fraud in the Islamabad capital !!

 

[Signalian]

but these threads should be limited to technical discussions/questions about the system, its acquisition and deployment tactics etc.

Are any MBTs deployed in certain sectors while they should be effective in some other sector ?

Acquisition of VT-4 and its tactical use in an armored div enhances its usefulness in armored combat ?

Should the size of IABGs be increased by an extra regiment of Gen-II MBTs ?

How can tracked TDs compliment newer generation MBTs when facing enemy armor ?

Should be engine performance of APCs be enhanced to keep pace with modern MBTs ?

How would you rate M-113s deployed in conjunction with T-80s which are considered to be fast ?

Should MBTs get an urban upgrade especially the ones in infantry divisions to support infantry in clearing buildings (without ERA) ?

Is a MBT troop suitable to support an infantry Battalion or a squadron level armored support should be mandatory for all infantry battalion Ops ?

The list is never ending.................

How long till these programs shutdown

We’re on verge of bankruptcy, gas loadshedding has gone crazy in low-income and poor areas of country
Gas shortages or being diverted to politicians/generals only
Roti khaogay to kuch ker paoge….stove he band hogya to kya faida defense ka

Good findings if you think all this affects Pakistan Army and its operational preparedness.

private steel mills can not do it ?

There is a locomotive factory Risalpur, why didnt they tilt towards producing engines for armored vehs ?

And No pakistan is not going to default!

That is surprisingly true unless for political reasons.

There’s so much wrong in this thread I don’t even know where to start. One sarcastic post about tank production and everyone is suddenly an expert in tank tech and tactics, literally 90% of the stuff posted here is laughable and has been discussed and answered to death in the relevant threads in much better and accurate ways.

Don't you just love the armored warfare experts we have on this forum, a month ago they were experts on Politics and Military before Bajwa retirement, now we have Guderian, Patton, Rommel, Schwarzkopf everywhere !

 

[Signalian]

Off topic (we should have another detailed thread on this) - the Frontier Corps and Rangers should be taken away from Army control and have its own officer corps, training centers and academies (similar to the Indian BSF), especially since the Pakistan Army has gone rogue against the country in its quest for power and control.

An elected Federal government should have the ability to deploy the Frontier Corps and Rangers for internal security, including against treasonous Army Generals.

All hell will break loose if IG FC/IG Rangers disobeys Interior Ministry. Corps Comd gets orders from GHQ, not IG FC, this is only area where bureaucracy of Pakistan stands strong due to its rift with Military ranks since they are CPS passed.

 

[Signalian]

Everyone has the right to offer an (civil) opinion on the topic. Everyone also has the right to offer a rational and civil critique/counter argument.

This is a discussion forum open to the public, not a restricted platform for verified members of academia or subject matter experts.

In case of FC;

1. How does T-69 II fare in NW Pakistan ?

2. A troop f T-69 can support FC only with direct firepower, considering FC has 25-pounders also ?

3. Why was 105 mm L-7 gun replaced with Chinese 100 mm rifled gun ?

4. What are the implications of ammunition in this case (105mm Vs 100mm) ?

5. How would T-69s operate in mountains ?

6. What combat strength of FC should be deployed to provide security to a troop strength and transport convoy of T-69s before it enters the battle zone ?

7. T-69 has to negotiate steep gradients, wouldn't FC need attachment of Engineers det for that and also EME for maintenance and field repairs ? Should that be provided by Army or FC should form own cadre ?

8. MRAPs and T-69 shoulder to shoulder can give decisive edge to FC during COIN war ? would APC or IFV fare better instead of MRAP ?

9. Should T-69 be used as pill boxes or should the FC armored commander become a " mountain fox "?

10. Should FC cross the border into Afghanistan led by T-69s during any confrontation or let the Army handle that ?

I actually do not believe anything our generals say anymore

You dont need to..... officers and soldiers do.

you need to review it sir

IIL doing it

IIL - International Industries Limited

iil.com.pk

Maaaaaani Bhai

Jhoolay lenay hain tank pe beth k ?

 

[Signalian]

Several Welding robots are already present at HIT. A good portion of the work is done by them, but the rest has to be done by human hands.

Why do you feel the need to slap their behinds with facts

Let their minds rot with media BS

We dont have steel mills. So this means we import all the materials.

Steel industry produces different types of steel sheets and ingots. So we dont have steel industry, we dont produce the raw material needed for a big scale production.

Army has many many ways ....

 

[Kompromat]

I have physically seen one of these. Its significantly bigger and better protected, equipped than AK. I wonder tho if we could use a version of the same turret system to upgrade older AKs?

Also, i think Pakistan needs to acquire 1500hp engines to upgrade VT4 and AKs future variants. You need all the power you can get to navigate through terrain like Cholistan, Thar and other regions.