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Political rights in China

Hang on guys, I just realized I didn't get the answer to my original query. So how do people air their grievances in China? I mean is there a specific cell/department that handles public complaints related to govt. policies/decisions? For eg. If am A and I didn't like the way my house was removed for a upcoming highway (happens all the time in India as well), can I approach the court? Or is there any other option for me?

SinoIndus, ChinaPakistan, Dccafe-I would really appreciate your views. Thanks in advance.

Each level of government in China has a special cell called "visitor's department" (信访办). There you can tell the officers the secrets of some corrupt government officers you know. If you have enough material to support your claim, then they will start to investigage that officer. Many corrupt officers in China are found out and punished in this way. But if they found your claim groundless, you will be just ignored.

Of course, this applies to any complaints, not necessarily to pointing out a bad officer.
Ever heard of that in western media? I guess definitely not.

Last month, when I applied for a passpart in a police department, a guy shouted at all the police officers: “Your service is the worst I have ever seen. You are not competent and should be get rid of. ” due to some reasons that I don't know. All police officers just kept quite. Tell me, in your imagination, can this happen in China.
 
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Last month, when I applied for a passpart in a police department, a guy shouted at all the police officers: “Your service is the worst I have ever seen. You are not competent and should be get rid of. ” due to some reasons that I don't know. All police officers just kept quite. Tell me, in your imagination, can this happen in China.

Police officers being shouted at for bad service? That'd never happen in India. :frown:

BTW, thanks for your reply. I bet most of the PDF members didn't know about that!
 
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Police officers being shouted at for bad service? That'd never happen in India. :frown:

BTW, thanks for your reply. I bet most of the PDF members didn't know about that!

Probably because he waited too long for his turn, I guess. You are welcome.
 
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China do have its own way to keep its government efficient and clean. So far it works ok, otherwise China won't be able to make the big econmic achievements.
 
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no no...not Gandhi...
only Rahul Indian...


for my first point, i am not saying choose democracy... read my point again.....
a)i am just asking why the atmosphere to threaten everyone....why everyone must live in a threat....

b) isnt it the right to keep ur opinion...


c) as the saying goes: listen to what everyone has to say and do as u please.. but why threaten everyone with imprisonment/death...why the atmosphere of fear....

also hey buddy what about the second point....??
Buddy Rahul (no-Gandhi), I’ve answered you already. I totally agree with you on the three points. The only question is how to achieve that.

Indian type of democracy has definitely not able to achieve that. Repeat my answers:

a) Large portion of Indians are under constant threat of starvation. With an empty stomach, many of them are basically deprived of their other freedoms, including political freedoms. Politically, many Indians are also under threat, as reflected by killing in each of your election, of your political candidates, and of your ordinary people.
b) Many Indians are not able to keep their political opinions, as reflected by killing in each of your election, of your political candidates, and of your ordinary people. In non-political areas, discriminations based on bloody, caste, religious believing, .., cast constant threat to the people of India to keep their own opinions.
c) as the saying goes: listen to what everyone has to say and do as u please.. but why threaten everyone with murder/communal violence...why the atmosphere of fear....


(2.for a communist country it means(i will take china example)

1.3 billion people equivalnt to nothing/null...their job is only to earn money and eat and sleep...

Be sane buddy. If the 1.3 b people are null, why India, and you, dear Rahul, name them number one enemy? Why do you need to develop China specific weapons?

Humm... Your great weaponry is aiming at null… incredible.

what matters is 200 ppl running the ccp....
what if those ppl have their own best interests in being the rulers forever....... well i am afraid of such ppl as such ppl can do anything to stay in power(even if that means to kill ppl in millions whether in war on some other country or in their own country for domestic political considerations if they think they can loose power)..... )

and plz refrain from posting anti India stuff...
and the dynasties used to be there earlier ....its for good it was overcome and now we have political rights for everyone...

also regarding below:



1) congress is just a party among several other parties... it is congress wish who leads them...democracy it is...so its their right..

2) Apart from congress there has been other govt also in between who have completed their full terms...

3)It is the wish of the Indian ppl to vote for congress than it is their wish...

4) I do not mind at all, if in China the ccp has same leader elected by Chinese ppl thorugh a transparent ssytem of votes for 20 years straightforward.... it will be their wish... they will do so only if they like the leader in reality... so as u assert that ppl really like ur present govt...why nt let them vote... whats the fear..??? i mean logically speaking,

if they like ccp=== they will vote for ccp....good...it remains in power..

If I’m not wrong, there are 70+million CPC members. If there are 200+ staff running the party, it is better than family dynasty of any sort, as the top members are elected via “democratic centralization”: a limited democracy. 100 time better than a dynasty based on blood or marriage.

INC and BJP are arguably the most influential parties in India. Both of them are mainly a family dynasty. "Other parties"? no evidence shows that they are/are not kind of family dynasty, given the kind of social soil of Bharat. Please READ:

love of dynasties seems to unite both the BJP and the Congress in Maharashtra, with several sons and daughters being given tickets for the upcoming Assembly polls.

The Great Indian Family: Dynasty dominates India - Special Report - Sunday TOI - Home - The Times of India

Who better than dynasty's child to turn the spotlight on the blood ties that course through Indian politics? If proof was needed, it came on results day - the roll call of famous political surnames came attached to different, usually younger faces. By one rough count, 27 MPs in the 15th Lok Sabha belong to prominent political families. Sons, siblings, wives, cousins...Indian politics appears to be a family business, with a parliamentary seat almost an heirloom to pass on.

The Great Indian Family: Dynasty dominates India - Special Report - Sunday TOI - Home - The Times of India

If Indians wish for family dynasty, then go for it, but don’t laughably tell us India is democratic.

I’m not anti-India, as I repeated 1000 times. I’m anti foolishness and ignorance.
 
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True, voting rights don't prevent events like Operation Bluestar or the Babri Masjid for that matter. But what they do allow is a medium to air grievances. If I as a Sikh am dissatisfied with the way that operation was handled I will vote against that particular party in the next elections. If you'd have researched in depth you'd have realized that the very same political party the Congress that ordered the operation was about 6 years later voted back into power into the state for bringing peace in the state. Thus giving me a way to express my disappointment without the fear of getting shot. That sadly wasn't the case in TS in 89.

I bet you know not much about China (neither do I, but I understand Chinese language, and the culture I guess). What knowledge you have possessed are mostly from Western point of view, a twisted and deamonized view.

I was in a similar situation as you are now decades ago. As I grow more matured, I know it is so hard to cast a more correct view: for the Chinese of the West, and for Westerners of China. Simple, both of them are grown up in different social soils and are nurturing different values, but both are valid in many occasions, .

If you have ever heard of “mothers of Tiananmen incidence”, an organization of the mothers of the perished students; if you ever know a part in Beijing called 上訪村 (or “village of pertitioner to Beijing”) where people all over China present their grievnce, true, false, even fake, to the central governemnt directly; if you ever know how many corruptive officials in China have been prosecuted purely due to that the victimes or witernesses posted information/criminal evidence on the internet...

In fact, in chinese website, I called for the government to pay greater attention to the pertitioners in the village. Event if 99% of the alleged grievance is false, fake, event lied, still there are 1% chance to catch bad officials. Of course, huge recourses are needed for that.

There are too many youtubes that evidences how ordinary people curse CPC in public. Of course, if you don’t know Chinese, too bad. The ordinary people use Chinese to curse CPC for the CPC member to understand, not English. :lol:

On the other side, have we heard the grievance of the 2,000,000/year perished Children, and many other injustice, in India? Democracy is not a sufficient condition for people to voice, and more importantly, to solve their pains and problems

You are using a pretty broad brush there. I don't think that's the case.

And my last post also points out why democracy is so important for India. We have so much diversity and heterogeneity that only democracy can allow their voices to be heard and their aspirations to be realized (to an extent that is).

Mate, Don’t take me wrong. I’m OK for your democracy, and there are some merits in it. In fact, I’m OK with whatever system you’d like to take.

But if you, or somebody else, from India, say why don’t you freaking Chinese take Western democracy, I’d say “buy a mirror and look into your own self in the mirror”.

Maybe it is wise not to compare apple with orange, as the two countries are so different, as you said. Just let the world watch, who can deliver more and better.
 
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Yes I am amazed to think how they lasted these last 60 years. I think the reason is your religion, buy I donnt know lots of hindu. Is there something like "I am poor bcoz I was a bad guy in the previous existence, this is just a publish from god and I will be rich in the nest existence" in hindu?
China is as diversity and heterogeneity as india, we have 56 race in china. But in china most of us dont believe any religion and most of us are considering "why others are rich and I am poor, It is unfair!", for the whole chinese nation it will be "Why we chinese are poor and US are rich, it is unfair!". This is why china had so many dynasties in the past, most of them all destroied by chinese themself bcoz if the gvot cannt offer good life and make chinese people happy, and most chinese donnt wanna suffer any bad condition of their life, so they started destroying it. And this is aslo why every chinese dynasty had a very strong centralization of authority. In the past, there was a very famous wisdom in china"王侯将相宁有种忽", means "Kings(Winners) are made, not born."
So, this is why CCP's polician what is now. Bcoz they cannt offer all the chinese the same life compairing to the US which most chinese donnt wanna suffer at present. So if we do the same like india, chinese will possiblly have a civil war and become weak and mess. It is bad for the whole chinese nation. And chinese gvot has claimed that they will make chinese average incomming be 20k dollars before 2050, and recentlly they have changed it to2040. At that time, I hope and I stroglly believe china will have a true democracy. And this is aslo why china people work hard, bcoz we dont wanna be number 2 or number 3, we wanna be number 1.
BTW:A strong centralization of authority is very gainful for a country's ecomoy is still under develeping just like japan did it.

i got a little confused.
1) what is "ture democracy"?
2) why by that time will it happen?
3) why should "very strong centralization of authority" be abandoned by then.
 
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i got a little confused.
1) what is "ture democracy"?
2) why by that time will it happen?
3) why should "very strong centralization of authority" be abandoned by then.

When a nation is poor, people work hard...(in most cases)
as their living standard rises, they will have "spare time" to think about politics... and also have the spare energy to fight for more political right which will end up having democracy or similar.

Why is the US having so much energy interfering others?... its not just their aggressive mentality, but because they have the time and energy. They don't have to rush for anything.


Above is to be consider in general and not specific, so please do not point out a specific class, telling me its wrong.
 
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I bet you know not much about China (neither do I, but I understand Chinese language, and the culture I guess). What knowledge you have possessed are mostly from Western point of view, a twisted and deamonized view.

I was in a similar situation as you are now decades ago. As I grow more matured, I know it is so hard to cast a more correct view: for the Chinese of the West, and for Westerners of China. Simple, both of them are grown up in different social soils and are nurturing different values, but both are valid in many occasions, .

If you have ever heard of “mothers of Tiananmen incidence”, an organization of the mothers of the perished students; if you ever know a part in Beijing called 上訪村 (or “village of pertitioner to Beijing”) where people all over China present their grievnce, true, false, even fake, to the central governemnt directly; if you ever know how many corruptive officials in China have been prosecuted purely due to that the victimes or witernesses posted information/criminal evidence on the internet...

In fact, in chinese website, I called for the government to pay greater attention to the pertitioners in the village. Event if 99% of the alleged grievance is false, fake, event lied, still there are 1% chance to catch bad officials. Of course, huge recourses are needed for that.

There are too many youtubes that evidences how ordinary people curse CPC in public. Of course, if you don’t know Chinese, too bad. The ordinary people use Chinese to curse CPC for the CPC member to understand, not English. :lol:

Well the language barrier exists and so does the virtual media barrier. The negatives get highlighted more than the positives and what I or somebody else in the West sees is a distorted picture.

I guess the best thing is to try and view things with an open mind. While talking about China I never forget the fact their economy is far ahead of India's in every metric. That gives one a good comparison point to start with. Surely a country that has been very stable (by India's standards) and has seen tremendous economic growth, can't have things so wrong as thee media projects.

But what amazes me is the frequency with which articles/reports poking holes in the China story float around the media. I mean just the other day I heard some Financial Institutions head (he was British I guess) saying how India has better long term growth prospects vis-a-vis China. Its as if people think the place is a pressure cooker and may blow up sooner or later, economy, society and all.

On the other side, have we heard the grievance of the 2,000,000/year perished Children, and many other injustice, in India? Democracy is not a sufficient condition for people to voice, and more importantly, to solve their pains and problems

Mate, Don’t take me wrong. I’m OK for your democracy, and there are some merits in it. In fact, I’m OK with whatever system you’d like to take.

I'd again say you'hv gt your figures messed up somewhere. But still its a number and however high/low its not something to be proud of.

But what I really like is how groups of people disrespected and neglected i the past can now stand up with pride, economically, socially and politically. I mean a few decades back, the Dalits (lower caste Hindus) were at the bottom of the pyramid and had no voice of their own. Now they'hv got one of their own as a Chief Minister of a state (and may be PM one day). All because they got themselves organized into a political party and utilized their right to vote for their own advancement. Now there were of course other factors at play here and not just voting rights. But without voting rights, they'd have never gotten anywhere.

But if you, or somebody else, from India, say why don’t you freaking Chinese take Western democracy, I’d say “buy a mirror and look into your own self in the mirror”.

Maybe it is wise not to compare apple with orange, as the two countries are so different, as you said. Just let the world watch, who can deliver more and better.

I agree. No point comparing different countries with different systems. Whatever works for you!

At the same time, its a misconception that democracy is a Western concept, ancient India had Janapadas (literally translated Republics) before the need for a centralized power structure took over. Its mentioned in the Puranas (ancient Aryan/Hindu texts).
 
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When a nation is poor, people work hard...(in most cases)
as their living standard rises, they will have "spare time" to think about politics... and also have the spare energy to fight for more political right which will end up having democracy or similar.

Above is to be consider in general and not specific, so please do not point out a specific class, telling me its wrong.

try to read this, "as their living standard rises, drivers,doctors,teachers etc will have "spare time" to think about quantum chemistry... and also have the spare energy to execuate chemistry experments which will end up breaking new ground for science". ridiculous isn't it, but why do you think politics would be easier to master, and, can you afford to shoulder the consequences if the "the experments" failed. drivers,doctors,teachers have little, if not none, experties in politic at all, on the other hand, politicians ,good or bad, have the experienced or degree or both to guide them in that field. so, would general opinions outperform that of politicians, in general. if not, why should they get involved.
 
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Well the language barrier exists and so does the virtual media barrier. The negatives get highlighted more than the positives and what I or somebody else in the West sees is a distorted picture.

.............
At the same time, its a misconception that democracy is a Western concept, ancient India had Janapadas (literally translated Republics) before the need for a centralized power structure took over. Its mentioned in the Puranas (ancient Aryan/Hindu texts).

Western world, business above everything.
China, Government on top of everything.

Western financial professionals... they see how it work best for them.
less control = more profitable.

In most case, other than economical facts, i don't believe in these so call financial professionals personal view since they all work for someone.
 
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try to read this, "as their living standard rises, drivers,doctors,teachers etc will have "spare time" to think about quantum chemistry... and also have the spare energy to execuate chemistry experments which will end up breaking new ground for science". ridiculous isn't it, but why do you think politics would be easier to master, and, can you afford to shoulder the consequences if the "the experments" failed. drivers,doctors,teachers have little, if not none, experties in politic at all, on the other hand, politicians ,good or bad, have the experienced or degree or both to guide them in that field. so, would general opinions outperform that of politicians, in general. if not, why should they get involved.

How could you mix these up. Its common sense, just like others telling Indians, how could you have true democracy when your people are extremely poor, not fed, and dieing.

Its the same logic.
If you don't agree, don't argue, you keep yours, I keep mine.
 
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How could you mix these up. Its common sense, just like others telling Indians, how could you have true democracy when your people are extremely poor, not fed, and dieing.

Its the same logic.
If you don't agree, don't argue, you keep yours, I keep mine.

i didn't mix them up, i just gave an example. my point is simple: only actors perform on the stage, no one else. no drivers, no teachers ...

BTW, i didn't get you point about the same logic.
 
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i didn't mix them up, i just gave an example. my point is simple: only actors perform on the stage, no one else. no drivers, no teachers ...

BTW, i didn't get you point about the same logic.

people are always not satisfy, as their lives gets better, and will eventually want more, which includes more freedom of speech(although the gov now is opening this up, not as strict anymore), and many others, and if they cannot achieve it, they will find alternatives, which would "possibility" lead to democracy or similar.

the current demand for freedom are not high, since they are enjoying "limited freedom", in most case it does not interfere with daily lives.

this is all natural for people do to so, it has nothing to do with "do you know politics"
 
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i got a little confused.
1) what is "ture democracy"?
2) why by that time will it happen?
3) why should "very strong centralization of authority" be abandoned by then.

1、There is no sure answer, but may be able to meet the social development and the need to compromise the rights of individuals
Rule of law, and Supervision of government power are more pressing need

2、There argument is that democracy and a soft landing ,establish a comprehensive legal system,and transparent government oversight, while maintaining political stability and economic development

3、With greater economic development in all aspects of the contradictions faced by developing countries are substantially reduced, the Government no longer need strong management will be able to ensure social stability, a large number of rights can be delegated to the grassroots level
 
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