Political rights in China

[RobbieS]

I am not the mod, but you guys make me say it. Folks, lets not derail this thread. Please stick to the topic.

SinoIndus-I especially mentioned your name in my first post as a learned member who can objectively answer my queries. I am surprised by your off topic and negative ranting. I didn't talk about any Akhand Bharat. Go read my posts on the first page and tell me if I am biased or if I had any ulterior motives. I say again I didn't mean any harm, just wanted a objective discussion without any cussing.

Warrior, Xdrive- People, lets not reply to any insinuation. Its harder to control one person' rant and other jumping in makes it very difficult to keep the thread in order. I know you didn't start it but lets not reply either. Please.

God, its so F#$kin hard to have an objective discussion here!

 

[GSK]

Hey everyone, according to GSK i am the one who made china a communist country!

bahahaha. funniest thing i have read all day.

No, according to me, you are an idiot since you are so stupid

 

[chinapakistan]

I am not the mod, but you guys make me say it. Folks, lets not derail this thread. Please stick to the topic.

SinoIndus-I especially mentioned your name in my first post as a learned member who can objectively answer my queries. I am surprised by your off topic and negative ranting. I didn't talk about any Akhand Bharat. Go read my posts on the first page and tell me if I am biased or if I had any ulterior motives. I say again I didn't mean any harm, just wanted a objective discussion without any cussing.

Warrior, Xdrive- People, lets not reply to any insinuation. Its harder to control one person' rant and other jumping in makes it very difficult to keep the thread in order. I know you didn't start it but lets not reply either. Please.

God, its so F#$kin hard to have an objective discussion here!

Pack up your double standard, if you are not blind I think you know at first all chinese member answered your question reasonablly and then a idiot called "xdrive" just come out to p@ssing.
Back to the topic, US's democracy is not started when US founded, it took a few millions years for setting real democracy in US, also you can take a look at japan, before and during japan boosted her economy, japan is not a true demoncracy country, they also had many society problem worse than china has now. And I came to japan when I was 10 years old, I studied japanese history books during my middle. school and high school.
Also I am strongly support China should have true democracy but not now, china still have 7% proverty rate about 0.1billion people under proverty and though china's literacy rate is over 90%, but high educated people is still less and still have not enough midlle class. No offence just take a look at india, It is hardly for me to understand how can 40%lliteracy people who cannt even write his name to vote reasonablly, and how can 38% indian people under serious poverty can vote reasonablly. And at last, sorry to say that we chinese donnt wanna to be as mess as indian.

Regards.

 

[RobbieS]

Pack up your double standard, if you are not blind I think you know at first all chinese member answered your question reasonablly and then a idiot called "xdrive" just come out to p@ssing. Regards.

There's no double standard I tried to be as fair in my views as possible. Why are you so pissed off? Ok, so xdrive started it. Does that make you happy. God, when will you guys grow up?

You can control your emotions once in a while. The virtuosity of the web is no excuse for bad mouthing anybody. Just say things the way you would if the person is standing in front of you.

 

[chinapakistan]

There's no double standard I tried to be as fair in my views as possible. Why are you so pissed off? Ok, so xdrive started it. Does that make you happy. God, when will you guys grow up?

You can control your emotions once in a while. The virtuosity of the web is no excuse for bad mouthing anybody. Just say things the way you would if the person is standing in front of you.

I am so suprised how can you deny your double standard when you face a fact. Read what you posted below and are you really dont even feel any shame on "There's no double standard I tried to be as fair in my views as possible. Why are you so pissed off? Ok, so xdrive started it. Does that make you happy. God, when will you guys grow up?" If you are not double standard why are you only blam chinese when you know "xdrive" started it as you said??????

SinoIndus-I especially mentioned your name in my first post as a learned member who can objectively answer my queries. I am surprised by your off topic and negative ranting. I didn't talk about any Akhand Bharat. Go read my posts on the first page and tell me if I am biased or if I had any ulterior motives. I say again I didn't mean any harm, just wanted a objective discussion without any cussing.

Warrior, Xdrive- People, lets not reply to any insinuation. Its harder to control one person' rant and other jumping in makes it very difficult to keep the thread in order. I know you didn't start it but lets not reply either. Please.

About below, the same words to you, grow up baby. I think my post is more reasonable and fair than yours.

You can control your emotions once in a while. The virtuosity of the web is no excuse for bad mouthing anybody. Just say things the way you would if the person is standing in front of you.

 

[RobbieS]

I am so suprised how can you deny your double standard when you face a fact. Read what you posted below and are you really dont even feel any shame on "There's no double standard I tried to be as fair in my views as possible. Why are you so pissed off? Ok, so xdrive started it. Does that make you happy. God, when will you guys grow up?" If you are not double standard why are you only blam chinese when you know "xdrive" started it as you said??????

SinoIndus-I especially mentioned your name in my first post as a learned member who can objectively answer my queries. I am surprised by your off topic and negative ranting. I didn't talk about any Akhand Bharat. Go read my posts on the first page and tell me if I am biased or if I had any ulterior motives. I say again I didn't mean any harm, just wanted a objective discussion without any cussing.

Warrior, Xdrive- People, lets not reply to any insinuation. Its harder to control one person' rant and other jumping in makes it very difficult to keep the thread in order. I know you didn't start it but lets not reply either. Please.

About below, the same words to you, grow up baby. I think my post is more reasonable and fair than yours.

You can control your emotions once in a while. The virtuosity of the web is no excuse for bad mouthing anybody. Just say things the way you would if the person is standing in front of you.

Dude, I didn't go into details. Just did a quick scan of the pages and wrote what I saw. I aplogize. Sinoindus didn't start it. It was Xdrive who started it. I hope you are really glad now.

And I mentioned sinoindus since he went off on a rant about India without any reason. I hadn't mentioned anything biased, had I?

But how does this all matter when thread is already derailed? If we all could have exercised a little caution...

 

[RobbieS]

How much freedom does their exist in Bharat? Not much. How much does the "voting" count for in India when votes are outright bought, Dalits and minoritis voices are IGNORED, openly in public politicians hold swaths of cash to BRIBE their way? Again not much. When will Akhand Bharat return the land it STOLE?

Here's what he said. I know you will next say that there's nothing wrong in what he said. True. But the point isn't being wrong or right. Its about sticking to the topic.

And yes, I did get good views from the Chinese members. I appreciate it. It was enriching to hear their perspectives. Alas, we couldn't take it any further.

 

[chinapakistan]

Dude, I didn't go into details. Just did a quick scan of the pages and wrote what I saw. I aplogize. Sinoindus didn't start it. It was Xdrive who started it. I hope you are really glad now.

And I mentioned sinoindus since he went off on a rant about me and India without any reason. I hadn't mentioned anything biased, had I?

But how does this all matter when thread is already derailed? If we all could have exercised a little caution...

I am glad you aplogized and it show me you are different from some other indian. And let us back to the topic, I have posted my thinking and what is your thought?

 

[RobbieS]

I am glad you aplogized and it show me you are different from some other indian. And let us back to the topic, I have posted my thinking and what is your thought?

I am glad we can take this forward. And yes I did read your views. Let me reply to you in a couple of hours. I'hv got things to wrap up in office here. But watch out for my post in some time.

 

[chinapakistan]

I am glad we can take this forward. And yes I did read your views. Let me reply to you in a couple of hours. I'hv got things to wrap up in office here. But watch out for my post in some time.

...I need to sleep after a hour, and I am glad to discuss these with you tomorrow.

 

[gpit]

China is a communist country. No one votes, and there is no protesting or complaining otherwise you will be arrested.

No protesting? No complaining? Are you sane?

China's Public Security Ministry reported 87,000 mass incidents in 2005, up 6.6 per cent over the number in 2004, and 50 per cent over the 2003 figure.
...


Mass Incidents in China and the United States and Predicting Results

 

[gpit]

It's funny you write "A) Savage Dictatorship " China is exactly that.

China is a communist country, no elections are held and a dictator runs the country.

All protesters are arrested, no one has the right to protest anything.

The government also tries to censor everything. Look at the Tiananmen Square protests. 1000 Students were murdered and the Chinese government tried to cover it up.

Even with the anniversary of it last year, the chinese secret police wouldn't allow any reporters to film in the square.

So i wouldn't be one to talk about other countries having savage dictatorships.

Tiananmen Square protests of 1989 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If voting can't save China but communism can save China, congratulations on the Chinese!

Who cares what freaking the system is named, ordinary people first want food, then a place to live, then get educated and find a job, then a more decent job/more pay, then want to voice their grievances, ... gradually more freedom.

The same applies to American people. When the Puritans ran away from England, they wanted to be on their religious own. But they couldn’t get away from daily life needs. That is why American forefathers, when debating federalism, stressed the importance of trade and commerce.

I think the wisdom of the Chinese is that, it doesn’t matter what system to use, as long as it works for China, they use it; if it doesn’t work, they modify it, evolve it, even revolve it, even though they still lack material richness.

Chinese type of Monarchy worked relatively well for several thousands years. But when western industrial revolution brought a new system in conflict with Chinese Monarchy, they have to abandon the old system. They tried democracy before even CPC came into existence. But by given that type of social soil then, it only brought in sham democracy. Eventually with a modified communism, they threw out imperialism. Yet the trial of communism failed in some aspects, for instance in agricultural area, they modified again. There is no more starvation to death in China, in contrast to some democratic countries in Asia or Africa where people dying of starvation is routine and no longer news, instead, people not die of starvation is rare and is news.

Please don’t care what some of you guys perhaps cared too seriously: how to call it, whether it is conforming to Western norms. If so, you focus your energy/attention on wrong spot.

I’m glad that, because of the Chinese system in place, in today’s China, no 2,000,000 children die of negligence; in today’s China, life expectance has been raise to 78 from 35 of 1949, in today’s China, literacy become 91% from 15% of 1949… event though there is not even a single day has China practiced so called democracy per Western norm!

Chinese system is not perfect and badly in need of improving. In fact, no system is perfect. The funny part is that somebody dares, even today, to claim that a mere copy of democratic system will solve problems.

 

[RobbieS]

Pack up your double standard, if you are not blind I think you know at first all chinese member answered your question reasonablly and then a idiot called "xdrive" just come out to p@ssing.
Back to the topic, US's democracy is not started when US founded, it took a few millions years for setting real democracy in US, also you can take a look at japan, before and during japan boosted her economy, japan is not a true demoncracy country, they also had many society problem worse than china has now. And I came to japan when I was 10 years old, I studied japanese history books during my middle. school and high school.
Also I am strongly support China should have true democracy but not now, china still have 7% proverty rate about 0.1billion people under proverty and though china's literacy rate is over 90%, but high educated people is still less and still have not enough midlle class. No offence just take a look at india, It is hardly for me to understand how can 40%lliteracy people who cannt even write his name to vote reasonablly, and how can 38% indian people under serious poverty can vote reasonablly. And at last, sorry to say that we chinese donnt wanna to be as mess as indian.

Regards.

Sorry I took so long. Here's my answer. I agree with you. Political rights and freedom is worth sh!t when you don't have food to eat, cloth to wear or a roof over your head. And as somebody said, its a horses for courses kinda thing. Whatever works.

As for India, there is so much diversity and heterogeneity that it would have been difficult to rule without having a say from all of them. And thats where democracy works for India. It allows different groups to voice its opinion and pursue their own goals to an extent. In the higher objective of keeping the country united and stable economic goals were lost.

Now you would say that the country is anything but stable. But believe me, the kind of diversity India has, you'd be amazed to think how we lasted these last 60 years.

 

[chinapakistan]

Sorry I took so long. Here's my answer. I agree with you. Political rights and freedom is worth sh!t when you don't have food to eat, cloth to wear or a roof over your head. And as somebody said, its a horses for courses kinda thing. Whatever works.

As for India, there is so much diversity and heterogeneity that it would have been difficult to rule without having a say from all of them. And thats where democracy works for India. It allows different groups to voice its opinion and pursue their own goals to an extent. In the higher objective of keeping the country united and stable economic goals were lost.

Now you would say that the country is anything but stable. But believe me, the kind of diversity India has, you'd be amazed to think how we lasted these last 60 years.

Yes I am amazed to think how they lasted these last 60 years. I think the reason is your religion, buy I donnt know lots of hindu. Is there something like "I am poor bcoz I was a bad guy in the previous existence, this is just a publish from god and I will be rich in the nest existence" in hindu?
China is as diversity and heterogeneity as india, we have 56 race in china. But in china most of us dont believe any religion and most of us are considering "why others are rich and I am poor, It is unfair!", for the whole chinese nation it will be "Why we chinese are poor and US are rich, it is unfair!". This is why china had so many dynasties in the past, most of them all destroied by chinese themself bcoz if the gvot cannt offer good life and make chinese people happy, and most chinese donnt wanna suffer any bad condition of their life, so they started destroying it. And this is aslo why every chinese dynasty had a very strong centralization of authority. In the past, there was a very famous wisdom in china"王侯将相宁有种忽", means "Kings(Winners) are made, not born."
So, this is why CCP's polician what is now. Bcoz they cannt offer all the chinese the same life compairing to the US which most chinese donnt wanna suffer at present. So if we do the same like india, chinese will possiblly have a civil war and become weak and mess. It is bad for the whole chinese nation. And chinese gvot has claimed that they will make chinese average incomming be 20k dollars before 2050, and recentlly they have changed it to2040. At that time, I hope and I stroglly believe china will have a true democracy. And this is aslo why china people work hard, bcoz we dont wanna be number 2 or number 3, we wanna be number 1.
BTW:A strong centralization of authority is very gainful for a country's ecomoy is still under develeping just like japan did it.

 

[Sino-PakFriendship]

But man, surveys aren't fool proof, are they? And at best what percentage of the total population is included in the sample size? 1%? That would mean a survey of 1.4 mln people which is impossible.

I don't mean to flame or anything, but wouldn't some kind of voting rights have avoided incidents like Tianmen Square? I mean if those students had an option they would have generated mass support for their demands rather than a one-night demonstration that ended tragically for many.

And you are right about the majority thing. Its not the best form of govt. Especially when a guy can win with 51% of the votes. What happens to the views of the 49% of the people who voted for the other candidate? Forgotten.

But I guess in the end, the form of govt. doesn't matter. The quality of the people who form the govt. is what matters.

If Western, India, Jap and Turkey continue to support Tibet independence and East Turkistan terrorism against China, most of Chinese citizen will support CCP even though it is a dictatorship regime!