Political rights in China

[gpit]

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I don't mean to flame or anything, but wouldn't some kind of voting rights have avoided incidents like Tianmen Square? I mean if those students had an option they would have generated mass support for their demands rather than a one-night demonstration that ended tragically for many.

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By mere voting, people can't solve problems. Problems are to be solved by practical and knowledgeable leaders and their people.

Many times voting exacerbates hatred, as shown in Taiwan and India. Each voting period in India, hundreds, if not thousands, will be killed out of hatred. The death toll in each of your voting period equals a Tiananmen tragedy. And you repeat that tragedy every several years.

I don’t mean to flame, either, but India has voting since its independence. Does the vote help to avoid Golden Temple massacre by your government? India: Slaughter at the Golden Temple - TIME Does the vote help to reduce persistent human rights violation against NE minorities?

No! Your suppressed many can’t voice their grievance through mere vote, resulting in 2,000,000 children died of neglect yearly, and your never-ending communal violence.

Could you now be able to tell us whether vote in China could avoid Tiananmen incidence?

BTW, I'm personally all for voting if that works as in USA.

 

[RAHUL INDIAN]

By mere voting, people can't solve problems. Problems are to be solved by practical and knowledgeable leaders and their people.

Many times voting exacerbates hatred, as shown in Taiwan and India. Each voting period in India, hundreds, if not thousands, will be killed out of hatred. The death toll in each of your voting period equals a Tiananmen tragedy. And you repeat that tragedy every several years.

I don’t mean to flame, either, but India has voting since its independence. Does the vote help to avoid Golden Temple massacre by your government? India: Slaughter at the Golden Temple - TIME Does the vote help to reduce persistent human rights violation against NE minorities?

No! Your suppressed many can’t voice their grievance through mere vote, resulting in 2,000,000 children died of neglect yearly, and your never-ending communal violence.

Could you now be able to tell us whether vote in China could avoid Tiananmen incidence?

BTW, I'm personally all for voting if that works as in USA.

but if there is no political right... it means:

1. it is only possible by means of force and by a constant threat to public(whether 1% or more) that opening ur voice means imprisonment/death....

why one cant keep his views....how does it harm anyone.. as the saying goes...
listen to everyone but do as ur heart says...... so why the atmosphere of threat to everyone...

2. for a communist country it means(i will take china example)

1.3 billion people equivalnt to nothing/null...their job is only to earn money and eat and sleep...

what matters is 200 ppl running the ccp....
what if those ppl have their own best interests in being the rulers forever....... well i am afraid of such ppl as such ppl can do anything to stay in power(even if that means to kill ppl in millions whether in war on some other country or in their own country for domestic political considerations if they think they can loose power).....

 

[gpit]

but if there is no political right... it means:

1. it is only possible by means of force and by a constant threat to public(whether 1% or more) that opening ur voice means imprisonment/death....

why one cant keep his views....how does it harm anyone.. as the saying goes...
listen to everyone but do as ur heart says...... so why the atmosphere of threat to everyone...

2. for a communist country it means(i will take china example)

1.3 billion people equivalnt to nothing/null...their job is only to earn money and eat and sleep...

what matters is 200 ppl running the ccp....
what if those ppl have their own best interests in being the rulers forever....... well i am afraid os such ppl as such ppl can do anything to stay in power.....

Rahul (Gandhi?) buddy,

Frankly, to choose between to eat, work, educate, sleep then enjoy oneself during leisure time and to starve/be neglected to death before they can even voice their grievance but can vote, I prefer the first choice.

And you are obviously longing for the second. Please, you enjoy it, too!

BTW, your family dynasties have ruled Indian since the independence. The Great Indian Family: Dynasty dominates India - Special Report - Sunday TOI - Home - The Times of India FTN: All in the family: Dynasty part of Indian politics

It is undemocratic that the Congress is still led by a Gandhi...But it is a fact of life in India that success in politics
–Rahul Gandhi

The Great Indian Family: Dynasty dominates India - Special Report - Sunday TOI - Home - The Times of India

 

[RAHUL INDIAN]

Rahul (Gandhi?) buddy,

no no...not Gandhi...
only Rahul Indian...

Rahul buddy,

Frankly, to choose between to eat, work, educate, sleep then enjoy oneself during leisure time and to starve/be neglected to death before they can even voice their grievance but can vote, I prefer the first choice.

And you are obviously longing for the second. Please, you enjoy it, too!

BTW, your family dynasties have ruled Indian since the independence. The Great Indian Family: Dynasty dominates India - Special Report - Sunday TOI - Home - The Times of India FTN: All in the family: Dynasty part of Indian politics

for my first point, i am not saying choose democracy... read my point again.....
a)i am just asking why the atmosphere to threaten everyone....why everyone must live in a threat....
b) isnt it the right to keep ur opinion...
c) as the saying goes: listen to what everyone has to say and do as u please.. but why threaten everyone with imprisonment/death...why the atmosphere of fear....

also hey buddy what about the second point....??

(2.for a communist country it means(i will take china example)

1.3 billion people equivalnt to nothing/null...their job is only to earn money and eat and sleep...

what matters is 200 ppl running the ccp....
what if those ppl have their own best interests in being the rulers forever....... well i am afraid of such ppl as such ppl can do anything to stay in power(even if that means to kill ppl in millions whether in war on some other country or in their own country for domestic political considerations if they think they can loose power)..... )

and plz refrain from posting anti India stuff...
and the dynasties used to be there earlier ....its for good it was overcome and now we have political rights for everyone...

also regarding below:

It is undemocratic that the Congress is still led by a Gandhi...But it is a fact of life in India that success in politics
–Rahul Gandhi

The Great Indian Family: Dynasty dominates India - Special Report - Sunday TOI - Home - The Times of India

1) congress is just a party among several other parties... it is congress wish who leads them...democracy it is...so its their right..

2) Apart from congress there has been other govt also in between who have completed their full terms...

3)It is the wish of the Indian ppl to vote for congress than it is their wish...

4) I do not mind at all, if in China the ccp has same leader elected by Chinese ppl thorugh a transparent ssytem of votes for 20 years straightforward.... it will be their wish... they will do so only if they like the leader in reality... so as u assert that ppl really like ur present govt...why nt let them vote... whats the fear..??? i mean logically speaking,

if they like ccp=== they will vote for ccp....good...it remains in power..

 

[gpit]

for my first point, i am not saying choose democracy... read my point again.....
a)i am just asking why the atmosphere to threaten everyone....why everyone must live in a threat....
b) isnt it the right to keep ur opinion...
c) as the saying goes: you can just listen to what everyone has to say and do as u please.. but why threaten everyone with imprisonment/death...why the atmosphere of fear....

also hey buddy what about the second point....??

and plz refrain from posting anti India stuff...
and the dynasties used to be there earlier ....its for good it was overcome and now we have political rights for everyone...

a) rightly said. Everyone should be living in a threat free environment. The first threat since the advent of people is starvation. Without food, people are under constant threat of starvation and death. So the first priority of a healthy system is to provide food for each and every citizen, regardless of his/her social status. Without cleaning out starvation threat, anything else claimed threat-less is fake and sham.

b) sure. So is every of the 1.4 billion Chinese. Each of them has his/her own and distinct opinion. But if RAW or any local or foreign agent tries to disturb social tranquility, they should be prosecuted according to law.

c) Rightly said again. But in India, some politicians can be clubbed to death simply by participating election. How disgusting is that! Why the atmosphere of fear!

 

[RAHUL INDIAN]

a) rightly said. Everyone should be living in a threat free environment. The first threat since the advent of people is starvation. Without food, people are under constant threat of starvation and death. So the first priority of a healthy system is to provide food for each and every citizen, regardless of his/her social status. Without cleaning out starvation threat, anything else claimed threat-less is fake and sham.

b) sure. So is every of the 1.4 billion Chinese. Each of them has his/her own and distinct opinion. But if RAW or any local or foreign agent tries to disturb social tranquility, they should be prosecuted according to law.

c) Rightly said again. But in India, some politicians can be clubbed to death simply by participating election. How disgusting is that! Why the atmosphere of fear!

ok for this reply.. but reply to my other part of post allso above(almost 75% not replied to)... ur reply is not complete to my whole post...

 

[RAHUL INDIAN]

a) rightly said. Everyone should be living in a threat free environment. The first threat since the advent of people is starvation. Without food, people are under constant threat of starvation and death. So the first priority of a healthy system is to provide food for each and every citizen, regardless of his/her social status. Without cleaning out starvation threat, anything else claimed threat-less is fake and sham.

ok.... let the ppl eat and earn.. but why constant threat/fear....??

1)do u mean to say if there is no fear/threating atmosphere forever ppl will not work in China...???
2) is it a kind of jail... that if i live i will have to do as per the ccp(200) ppl say... or else get lost...so in essence 200 ppl ruling over 1.3 billion ppl...and those ppl can i equate to slaves(as there is constant threat/fear to their life)....

b) sure. So is every of the 1.4 billion Chinese. Each of them has his/her own and distinct opinion. But if RAW or any local or foreign agent tries to disturb social tranquility, they should be prosecuted according to law.

u sure chinese are so poor/disloyal ppl...that ppl in lakhs will very eagerly listen to raw and others and dont care about China...so no patriotism..??

c) Rightly said again. But in India, some politicians can be clubbed to death simply by participating election. How disgusting is that! Why the atmosphere of fear!

well this is not correct reply to my point in the post..
ppl get killed due to terrorist activities....
u want to say chinese leaders dont want voting process coz they are afraid they might be killed in some rally...

 

[RAHUL INDIAN]

a) rightly said. Everyone should be living in a threat free environment. The first threat since the advent of people is starvation. Without food, people are under constant threat of starvation and death. So the first priority of a healthy system is to provide food for each and every citizen, regardless of his/her social status. Without cleaning out starvation threat, anything else claimed threat-less is fake and sham.

b) sure. So is every of the 1.4 billion Chinese. Each of them has his/her own and distinct opinion. But if RAW or any local or foreign agent tries to disturb social tranquility, they should be prosecuted according to law.

c) Rightly said again. But in India, some politicians can be clubbed to death simply by participating election. How disgusting is that! Why the atmosphere of fear!

ur post sadly is not the proper reply to the few questions u replied to above... the three points kind of seem to be more diversionary... i expect straightforard replies to them and not rambling...this is not acceptable reply...

 

[RobbieS]

By mere voting, people can't solve problems. Problems are to be solved by practical and knowledgeable leaders and their people.

Many times voting exacerbates hatred, as shown in Taiwan and India. Each voting period in India, hundreds, if not thousands, will be killed out of hatred. The death toll in each of your voting period equals a Tiananmen tragedy. And you repeat that tragedy every several years.

I don’t mean to flame, either, but India has voting since its independence. Does the vote help to avoid Golden Temple massacre by your government? India: Slaughter at the Golden Temple - TIME Does the vote help to reduce persistent human rights violation against NE minorities?

No! Your suppressed many can’t voice their grievance through mere vote, resulting in 2,000,000 children died of neglect yearly, and your never-ending communal violence.

Could you now be able to tell us whether vote in China could avoid Tiananmen incidence?

BTW, I'm personally all for voting if that works as in USA.

True, voting rights don't prevent events like Operation Bluestar or the Babri Masjid for that matter. But what they do allow is a medium to air grievances. If I as a Sikh am dissatisfied with the way that operation was handled I will vote against that particular party in the next elections. If you'd have researched in depth you'd have realized that the very same political party the Congress that ordered the operation was about 6 years later voted back into power into the state for bringing peace in the state. Thus giving me a way to express my disappointment without the fear of getting shot. That sadly wasn't the case in TS in 89.

Each voting period in India, hundreds, if not thousands, will be killed out of hatred.

You are using a pretty broad brush there. I don't think that's the case.

And my last post also points out why democracy is so important for India. We have so much diversity and heterogeneity that only democracy can allow their voices to be heard and their aspirations to be realized (to an extent that is).

 

[Honor]

1. it is only possible by means of force and by a constant threat to public(whether 1% or more) that opening ur voice means imprisonment/death....

why one cant keep his views....how does it harm anyone.. as the saying goes...
listen to everyone but do as ur heart says...... so why the atmosphere of threat to everyone...

2. for a communist country it means(i will take china example)

1.3 billion people equivalnt to nothing/null...their job is only to earn money and eat and sleep...

what matters is 200 ppl running the ccp....
what if those ppl have their own best interests in being the rulers forever....... well i am afraid of such ppl as such ppl can do anything to stay in power(even if that means to kill ppl in millions whether in war on some other country or in their own country for domestic political considerations if they think they can loose power).....[/QUOTE]

Let me answer your question.
1) You can voice up your view. No one will be punished by death. I believe if your views incide riots and destability to country, you will be trial accordingly.

2) For 1.2billion Chinese, we have fruitful life in China (as compare to India). It is not work, earn money and sleep. You can travel to overseas if you wish. Nobody is stopping you. You can do whatever you want. We had more opportunity than a ave Indian to succeed in life. We had good infastructure, less ****** place and we had better medical care as compare to India.

3) CCP is not run by 200peoples only. Please do not be so ignorance!
To pass a policy, we need a group of CCP members to agreed before we can proceed. It is like having internal meeting first before proceeding to external meeting except that we do not have external meeting.

In the control of good leadership, internal meeting is sufficient.

 

[chinapakistan]

1.3 billion people equivalnt to nothing/null...their job is only to earn money and eat and sleep...

what matters is 200 ppl running the ccp....

Plz, do some home work before you come out show your ignorance.
Thank you.

 

[GSK]

1.3 billion people equivalnt to nothing/null...their job is only to earn money and eat and sleep...

what matters is 200 ppl running the ccp....
.

Do you believe it yourself? If what you said is true, then it is largely due to these 200 ppl runing the ccp that China develops so fast and becomes the second largest economy. If so, what a brilliant ccp! Each of them should be awarded Nobel prize in economics.

You guys remind me of the story of "blind men and an elephant“. If China's administrative mechanism is as simple and cruel as in your imagination, would it be what it is now? Definitely no.

 

[chinapakistan]

Do you believe it yourself? If what you said is true, then it is largely due to these 200 ppl runing the ccp that China develops so fast and becomes the second largest economy. If so, what a brilliant ccp! Each of them should be awarded Nobel prize in economics.

Maybe in his mind, they are brainyer than Albert Einstein.

 

[RobbieS]

Hang on guys, I just realized I didn't get the answer to my original query. So how do people air their grievances in China? I mean is there a specific cell/department that handles public complaints related to govt. policies/decisions? For eg. If am A and I didn't like the way my house was removed for a upcoming highway (happens all the time in India as well), can I approach the court? Or is there any other option for me?

SinoIndus, ChinaPakistan, Dccafe-I would really appreciate your views. Thanks in advance.

 

[mivy]

Guys, I had this discussion a couple of days back with a friend and were comparing different forms of government - democratic, republic, authoritarian etc. The point where we got stuck was around political rights in non-democratic countries.

How do people exercise their political rights in China? By political rights I mean the right to complain against their government and if need be change it. In a democracy if the public ain't happy with one party they vote them out and bring somebody else in, for better or worse! But how do things work out in China? What options do the Chinese people have in case they aren't pleased with their government?
I am not going to bring in N. Korea as thats an extreme example. But China, being a capitalist (well, sort of) yet non-democratic country, I was curious to know about.

And I hope people don't take it the wrong way. Just wanted to know thats all. I could have Googled but I thought I should first hear it from the Chinese members in this forum who might have seen things first hand. So dccafe, conworldus, sinoindus, feifanke and the gang, what do you think?

P.S. If the Mods think this ain't the right forum for this topic, feel free to move it to the member's club. I wanted to get the attention of the Chinese members specifically, hence I posted it here.

There's still a long way to go for China in terms of democracy, but we don't admire the democracies in Taiwan and Philippine, the same level corruption and more severe violence. Maybe, United states is a good sample, but for poor China, it is still too costly for such democracy for now.

The supervision of the public media and self-improving system are working well, and I have full confidence that China is on the right track to democracy.