Poland to ban religious (Halal) slaughter of animals

[KingMamba]

So by extension would it mean that it is ok for non-halal meat in village societies or small towns wherein the concept of feeding steroids or hormones to animals is unheard of ?

Now dont take me that I oppose halal meat or wont eat it. It does not matter to me as long as I have some meat on my plate. But I dont have this stickling to the way it is killed coz in this age of storing and processing, I dont see any sense in how killing an animal in one particular way is healthier.

No, it still would not but then that would go into religious reasons instead of the scientific basis behind it. Muslims are still advised to drain the blood not because it is unclean but because it MAY be unclean on top the dwah they read as they zibah as well. It is more about caution and ritual than about anything else (of course the same applies to the Jewish method which is essentially the same). If pain is an issue for the ban than it was an unreasonable ban because as cepheride pointed out most Muslims advice stunning before hand as well if for no other reason than to put the animal rights people at peace at mind even though depriving the nerves in the brain blood removes the chance of pain outright.

 

[gslv]

Blood has no greater concentration of metabolites that are eventually excreted than the tissues through which it is running. The liver and kidneys concentrate these metabolites so that they can be converted and/or excreted. In fact, kidneys and liver themselves are halal to eat, proving that the concentration of excreted metabolites is not the issue here.

well Vcheng what you are saying is also incorrect especially in case of kidney there is nothing in kidney that might store substance like urea, creatinine, drugs like tetracycline. the blood passes through glomeruli and the substance simply passes out to PCT. and in livers case is nearly same. there is simply more blood flow to liver and kidney proportion to their size. and to be said the liver contains highest amount of vitamins compared to other tissues. the livers contains enzymes like glucoronidase to carry our conversion of substance like billirubin to watersoluble one.

 

[cyphercide]

Hardly proof bro you gave me news from people who support the ban they have already taken a position.

When the animal is slaughtered in the Islamic or Jewish way the slaughtering is to be done by cutting the throat, windpipe and the blood vessels in the neck causing the animal’s death, but without cutting the spinal cord. The animal does not feel pain because blood flow to the nerves in the brain are stopped (includes the nerve for pain) and the blood is drained completely. The animal is already unconscious as it dies due to blood loss.

Haha. Government funded studies by agriculture ministries of various nations(The UK and New Zealand) don't have agendas. Wouldn't they be shooting off their collective foot by raising a red flag on meat consumption if they did have one?

stunning does not guarantee the animal was alive at the time of slaughter,and its same as eating road kill

From the same page;

In instances such as ‘emergency kill’ where non-reversible stunning methods (eg penetrative captive bolt or gun) are used, the carcass must be identified as non-halal.

http://www.daff.gov.au/aqis/export/meat/elmer-3/notices/2009/mn09-08

 

[Safriz]

Sorry for using this example - but tomorrow if you needed blood for some purpose, would you be thinking the same way - that other person's blood might contain his piss ? If not, I dont see why it should be a matter here.

the only difference here is that in blood transfusion,you dont ask the other person to "drink" blood...
A total logic fail here...
rephrase and try again.

 

[Emmie]

Sorry for using this example - but tomorrow if you needed blood for some purpose, would you be thinking the same way - that other person's blood might contain his piss ? If not, I dont see why it should be a matter here.

Actually piss is extracted from the blood, that's merely my point.. I never said there was piss in blood.

 

[VCheng]

Definition of blood.



Liver and Kidney are only filters,they dont hold the rejects,thats why halal.

Yes, blood transports many things, but the concentration is the same as other tissues. The liver and kidneys concentrate these metabolites hundreds-fold for excretion.

Thinking that blood is unclean is simply incorrect.

 

[KingMamba]

Sorry for using this example - but tomorrow if you needed blood for some purpose, would you be thinking the same way - that other person's blood might contain his piss ? If not, I dont see why it should be a matter here.

KS that is an unreasonable analogy the blood of a human is given more care than the blood of an animal. (unfortunately but true, they would not let precious human blood be as easily contaminated). Also they do outright reject some donors and you guessed it steroid users and aids virus holders top the list.

 

[Safriz]

Yes, blood transports many things, but the concentration is the same as other tissues. The liver and kidneys concentrate these metabolites hundreds-fold for excretion.

Thinking that blood is unclean is simply incorrect.

no.
if tissues are left with same amount of toxins as blood,tissues will die..the excretes are immediately removed via blood,and at any given moment the amount of refuse and toxins is much higher in blood than the tissues.

posting links will help.

may be one of us is missing something...

 

[KingMamba]

Haha. Government funded studies by agriculture ministries of various nations(The UK and New Zealand) don't have agendas. Wouldn't they be shooting off their own foot by raising a red flag on meat consumption if they did have one?

The people facilitating the studies have an agenda not the people carrying out the studies. Whose to say they did not pick out parts of the study they found useful?? Like I said it is unreasonable to use as evidence when common sense says when you cut the jugular of any animal or human death is quick and usually painless. Of course the motion has to be swift and the person doing so would have to know what they are doing but what is expected of people living in Europe and other first class countries should not be expected of a villager living in say Somalia.

 

[VCheng]

well Vcheng what you are saying is also incorrect especially in case of kidney there is nothing in kidney that might store substance like urea, creatinine, drugs like tetracycline. the blood passes through glomeruli and the substance simply passes out to PCT. and in livers case is nearly same. there is simply more blood flow to liver and kidney proportion to their size. and to be said the liver contains highest amount of vitamins compared to other tissues. the livers contains enzymes like glucoronidase to carry our conversion of substance like billirubin to watersoluble one.

I never said kidneys store anything. They mainly concentrate, among other things.

Trust me, I know a few things about renal and hepatic physiology too.

 

[gslv]

KS that is an unreasonable analogy the blood of a human is given more care than the blood of an animal. (unfortunately but true, they would not let precious human blood be as easily contaminated). Also they do outright reject some donors and you guessed it steroid users and aids virus holders top the list.

steroid screening is not done in case of blood transfusion.mainly malaria, HIV, syphilis, hepatitis B virus are done. steroid can be metabolized by liver in matter of hours.

 

[VCheng]

no.
if tissues are left with same amount of toxins as blood,tissues will die..the excretes are immediately removed via blood,and at any given moment the amount of refuse and toxins is much higher in blood than the tissues.

posting links will help

You can google all you want, but actually going through medical school will help the most.

 

[KS]

I repeat blood was advised to be drained in those days in the deserts because de-hydration/de-sanguination extends the shelf life of the meat and the bedouins who are nomadic by nature can sustain on the meat for extended periods till the next kill. It made perfect sense in those days, in those environs in the absence of advanced storage and refrigeration techniques.

But if meat is to be eaten fresh like in most countries - i.e., fresh from the butcher's table, then it is perfectly fine to have anything and it doesnt make a goddamn difference.

Now practising halal(kosher) as a religious practise is upto the Muslims and Jews, its their religious right....but other justifications are mostly not true, not in this age.

 

[Audio]

......

Erm, i dont think cellular waste which would include material on its way from the lungs (CO2) and other molecular compounds is the same as body waste (shit).
Furthermore, i also believe i heard that when someone dies (i presume same goes for animals too) the muscles relax and all the shit comes flowing out.
Im no doctor though, just wanted to throw the above thought out.....

 

[KingMamba]

steroid screening is not done in case of blood transfusion.mainly malaria, HIV, syphilis, hepatitis B virus are done. steroid can be metabolized by liver in matter of hours.

When I went to high school about two years ago and donated blood they asked for steroid use as well. Not necessarily because of the steroids itself but perhaps the needle used is what concerned them, nonetheless what I said still applies Human blood is safe guarded more staunchly than the blood of animals.