PNS Azmat Class - Fast Attack Missile Craft | Updates & Discussions.

[Armchair]

I think PN/MTC should look at evolving the Azmat FAC into something like the Sa'ar 72 (but minus the helicopter deck, since you hate those so much). Adding a recessed VLS might be tough, but the Denel Rheinmetall Munition Cheetah CRAM/PDMS can fit top-level (it's apparently light enough).

https://www.israel-shipyards.com/naval-003.asp

Nice one. Thanks for sharing. Sa'ar won't survive in Pak sea states, they are top heavy and overcrowded.

@Armchair whats wrong with having a helicopter on deck? it only helps increase the eyes and anti-sub warfare capabilities of the ship when no AWACS or P3C orion is immediately available...

I love helicopter decks, don't listen to @Bilal Khan (Quwa)

I just like them on bigger platforms, nothing below 1500 tons should have a helicopter hangar specially in the Sea States that the Indian Ocean offers.

No problem if you are in the pond the Europeans call the Mediterranean.

I think the 2 roles to focus on with such a ship are (1) ASW and (2) AShW/LACM. The advantage of such a small -- and low-cost -- ship is that we can cover more areas, so boost our ASW coverage. We would also have more attack vectors for long-range strikes and A2/AD.

Summed up perfectly what I think! Thanks.

 

[Tank131]

I would be up to upsize (slightly) and up arm the Azmat design to say a 850t OR even double the size to make a light corvette. Give it a bow mounted sonar and instead of a RHIB launch deck give it a towed array. Equipped with 2 triple torpedo tubes and 2 rocket propelled depth charge launchers like RDC-32. Keep the 6 AShM/LACM in Harba, but change the rear ak-630 for an 8 cell FL-3000N and replace the 30mm SMASH main gun for a Type 1130 with 6 HQ-10 or if diplomatically possible, get PANTSIR-M (giving 1 CIWS and 14 short range SAM) OR keep the AK630 as is and bolt a To-2MKM with 16 9m338 missiles (15km range) instead of a main gun.

A Small helipad to launch a VTOL/helicopter UAV which can be housed in a small telescopic hangar. It could be equipped for different missions with either dipped sonar array, an AESA radar like seaspray 5000e, or anti-tank missiles for use against small fast craft, depending on the mission. China has a number of VTOL UAV which should be able to fit the role inlcludong this new one which was seen on a Type 075 LHD

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2020/07/was-a-vtol-uav-spotted-aboard-chinas-type-075-lhd/

 

[Armchair]

I would be up to upsize (slightly) and up arm the Azmat design to say a 850t OR even double the size to make a light corvette. Give it a bow mounted sonar and instead of a RHIB launch deck give it a towed array. Equipped with 2 triple torpedo tubes and 2 rocket propelled depth charge launchers like RDC-32. Keep the 6 AShM/LACM in Harba, but change the rear ak-630 for an 8 cell FL-3000N and replace the 30mm SMASH main gun for a Type 1130 with 6 HQ-10 or if diplomatically possible, get PANTSIR-M (giving 1 CIWS and 14 short range SAM) OR keep the AK630 as is and bolt a To-2MKM with 16 9m338 missiles (15km range) instead of a main gun.

A Small helipad to launch a VTOL/helicopter UAV which can be housed in a small telescopic hangar. It could be equipped for different missions with either dipped sonar array, an AESA radar like seaspray 5000e, or anti-tank missiles for use against small fast craft, depending on the mission. China has a number of VTOL UAV which should be able to fit the role inlcludong this new one which was seen on a Type 075 LHD

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2020/07/was-a-vtol-uav-spotted-aboard-chinas-type-075-lhd/

Interesting thoughts. Here is what I would do (bit similar to yours but different still):
DJI drone
AESA radar of Block 3 adapted to maritime use
I'd go with your ASW solution
Gokdeniz CIWS at A position and aft
Local PDMS under development (reportedly progressing well by Ark Angel)
Supposedly this PDMS is IR based. When combined with the block 3 based naval radar - you have a real defense capability to a 10 km radius. Which is decent.
I'd go for 8x Harbah or the new hypersonic which also has exceeded all expectations in its development (source: Ark Angel)
EW would be integral to these ships.

For the above to happen, I'd stretch the forward section 3 feet and the aft by 1 feet. This would take the ship to bout 600-650 tons.

This essentially is a mini-corvette. Such ships used to be designated Sloop-of-War in olden times.

 

[araz]

Interesting thoughts. Here is what I would do (bit similar to yours but different still):
DJI drone
AESA radar of Block 3 adapted to maritime use
I'd go with your ASW solution
Gokdeniz CIWS at A position and aft
Local PDMS under development (reportedly progressing well by Ark Angel)
Supposedly this PDMS is IR based. When combined with the block 3 based naval radar - you have a real defense capability to a 10 km radius. Which is decent.
I'd go for 8x Harbah or the new hypersonic which also has exceeded all expectations in its development (source: Ark Angel)
EW would be integral to these ships.

For the above to happen, I'd stretch the forward section 3 feet and the aft by 1 feet. This would take the ship to bout 600-650 tons.

This essentially is a mini-corvette. Such ships used to be designated Sloop-of-War in olden times.

What do you think a cost of such a venture would be?
A

 

[Armchair]

What do you think a cost of such a venture would be?
A

Would be hard for me to make an estimate as I don't know current prices and there are a lot of intangibles such as scale of local production of subsystems (larger the scale, greater the economies). Also no idea how much Turkish CIWS cost.

If Pak produces 10 - 20 units (and manages to export some of the excess units), perhaps this would be a very low cost acquistion.

Local shipbuilding is not as efficient as Chinese, so costs more. If KSEW can be brought up to scratch by reorganization and financial flotation, again, costs can perhaps be more manageable.

Short answer - I don't know.

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

Remove the Helicopter Deck and Install Pantisr M

 

[Aamir Hussain]

Need to enhance the speed of the platforms. They are all under thirty knots and low on endurance too.

 

[Tank131]

Interesting thoughts. Here is what I would do (bit similar to yours but different still):
DJI drone
AESA radar of Block 3 adapted to maritime use
I'd go with your ASW solution
Gokdeniz CIWS at A position and aft
Local PDMS under development (reportedly progressing well by Ark Angel)
Supposedly this PDMS is IR based. When combined with the block 3 based naval radar - you have a real defense capability to a 10 km radius. Which is decent.
I'd go for 8x Harbah or the new hypersonic which also has exceeded all expectations in its development (source: Ark Angel)
EW would be integral to these ships.

For the above to happen, I'd stretch the forward section 3 feet and the aft by 1 feet. This would take the ship to bout 600-650 tons.

This essentially is a mini-corvette. Such ships used to be designated Sloop-of-War in olden times.

I like the idea but for me i think enlarging it a bit to enable the landing pad for a vtol uav and antisub capability would relieve a lot of pressure from the frigate as well.

 

[Tank131]

What do you think a cost of such a venture would be?
A

I thinknit would depend on the number of units though i would imagine you would need to not only buy the new components but also bigger engines to deal with displacement change. It would add probably 20-30% to the cost but with economies of scale the unit cost couls go fmsown if you end up getting 10-15 light corvettes.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

I was thinking may be we should have option

a) Azmat I : Comes with Helicopter and Anti Submarine /Anti Ship role
b) Azmat II : Comes with a Anti Air defense and Anti Ship Role
c) Azmat III: With a extended body offering helicopter / SAM / Anti Ship role

That way a combination of 12 ships can offer nice structure covering sub water and above in air threats

 

[syed_yusuf]

In my opinion the next iteration of azmat class should be in line with Bunyan M class of Russia . Appx 1000 tons and 78 meter long top equipment and quality sensors a perfect pocket destroyer of PN

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

In my opinion the next iteration of azmat class should be in line with Bunyan M class of Russia . Appx 1000 tons and 78 meter long top equipment and quality sensors a perfect pocket destroyer of PN

View attachment 648442

Navy tend to avoid saying the "D" word, tug boats and boats are preferred
We have not inducted a ship in D class for last 70 years

 

[Armchair]

I like the idea but for me i think enlarging it a bit to enable the landing pad for a vtol uav and antisub capability would relieve a lot of pressure from the frigate as well.

According to Bilal Khan 777 who did a technical analysis of the ship, they don't have the structural capacity to be enlarged (they have already been enlarged from the base architectural design to max). I've still added 4 feet, since a marginal change (in my mind) is still possible.

 

[Tank131]

According to Bilal Khan 777 who did a technical analysis of the ship, they don't have the structural capacity to be enlarged (they have already been enlarged from the base architectural design to max). I've still added 4 feet, since a marginal change (in my mind) is still possible.

Frankly evem if its not possible to enlarge, they cam still rearrange the layout and change weapons systems and electronics to greatly improve the ship. Swapping the SMASH 30mm cannon for a Type 1130 (ala Type 022 FACs) along with 6 HQ-10 and replace and put an 8 cell FL-3000N in place of the Ak-630. Replace thr radars with more modern long range radars like Kronos from Selex.

 

[Armchair]

Frankly evem if its not possible to enlarge, they cam still rearrange the layout and change weapons systems and electronics to greatly improve the ship. Swapping the SMASH 30mm cannon for a Type 1130 (ala Type 022 FACs) along with 6 HQ-10 and replace and put an 8 cell FL-3000N in place of the Ak-630. Replace thr radars with more modern long range radars like Kronos from Selex.

Well, even I would like that but there are technical parameters that we civies and non architects don't understand. Like what happens if you put a heavy 1130 instead of 30mm SMASH? What happens to sea keeping characteristics or even basic design stability. Remember, these are steel vessels trying to float on water...

When the weight distribution moves forward then it creates a large number of problems, drastically reducing performance on a wide variety of parameters, even down to ability to maneuver and speed.

Large radars are also:
1. Heavy, and heavy in exactly the wrong place - creating top imbalances
2. Require far superior power supply.
3. Takes space

Again, sounds wonderful for us but may sound insane for actual engineers and architects that do this for a living. Just my 0.02.