Plausible Turk-Pak Hybrid Presence Inside Afghanistan

[Colonel_Hardstone]

Some points to ponder based on the discussion from Mete Yarar, a Turkish defense and political analyst, and my inputs:

• Afghanistan isn't the name of just another country. According to Brzezinski (the US architect of the USSR's fall serviced via Af-Pak), whoever controls Afghanistan controls the world
• Kemal Pasha took an especial interest on Afghanistan (no Pak at that time) even though Turkey was war-torn with virtually zero resources
• Afghanistan is too valuable to leave to the whims of the inexperienced Taliban, who aren't exactly in the best terms with the moderate Afghans. It's the recipe of further foreign-engineered turmoil with huge fallouts onto Pak
• A Turk-Pak "hybrid" presence inside Afghanistan - completely independent of any other powers in the world - can quench the qualms of the warring parties to some extent. Here, the "hybrid" presence means almost invisible behind-the-scene actions with not the nose of a single Pak or Turkish folk bleeding
• Such a presence can balance the other "presences". Flowers filled with honey attract the bees
• Pak and Turkey have got everything to benefit from it with little risk. There's no "free lunch" in this Dunya! As for the "free lunch" in the Ahiret, it needs to be earned while being in this Dunya
• Etc.​

The whole idea depends on the willingness and approval of Taliban. IF the Taliban approve then the Pakistan & Turkey should fully support the stabilisation of Afghanistan and provide all assistance including enabling the beleagured Afghan Airforce to provide CAS.

Intelligence via drones along the border as it is also in Pakistan's interest to monitor the border.

Pakistan should provide training, logistics etc as language isn't an issue.

It doesn't matter if other fractions don't support the idea but approval and consent of Taliban is the key!

IF the Taliban don't support the idea then this will be a huge huge mistake.

 

[Hareeb]

Other than protecting goons of Northern Alliance in disguise of protecting Kabul airport, one good reason for Turkey to stay in Afghanistan?

 

[HRK]

jahan Farasat hey wahan ibadat nahi
Or Jahan inbadat hey wahan Farasat nahi

the key phrase is "Momin ki farasat"

Try to understand why I am saying that its time for Afghan Taliban to act as sensible and pragmatic player rather to act as ruler with tribal egos.

Remember first time when Afghan Taliban were ruling Afghanistan they refused to take other Afghan groups as their political ally, they had there reason which at that time were used to appear justifiable to an extent .... but by not accepting other communities and sects during their previous rule they created a division not just within Afghanistan but in the region as well and that division provided space for extra regional players to have their say in matters of Afghanistan.

Afghan society is still divided on the basis of race and sect and IF Afghan Taliban does not offer General Pardon to the members of Afghan Political and Administrative class this will create another fault line which will come to hunt not only Afghan Taliban but to us as well in Future.

What do you you think why Pakistan is continuously engaging Abdullah Abdullah .... ???

Because we don't want another Northern Alliance ..... extra regional players would certainly get benefited by its existence

This time all I want from Afghan Taliban is to act as Just Ruler for All Afghans not just for Pukhtoons community of Afghanistan.

Sir

BTW I no 'Sir' ... but only a simple humble learner

 

[hydrabadi_arab]

LOL of course I don't get an answer.



Who said it was your land? Our history in those regions extends back to the Kabul Shahi and Gandhara periods. Awghans came very recently from their caves and settled here and brought their tribal culture and ways.

Don't feed the afghani troll. Let him live in delusions where they believe KP and Balochistan belong to them.

 

[Pakistansdefender]

We will support our Turkish brothers through thick and thin if they remain in Afghanistan.

Also befriend France and lick their fat as* lik your hero erdogan an turkey do...

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

The West's animosity toward Turkey >>>>> The West's animosity toward the Taliban
For:

• Turkey is global; Taliban are local​
• The Turkish Folks have built Empires over the Christian lands; Taliban haven't​
• The Turkish Folks secured the Muslim Heartlands from the Crusaders; Taliban didn't​
• The Turkish Folks are fighting the West in the East Med, Libya, Northeren Irak/Syria etc.; Taliban aren't
• Turkey is developing indigenous military industrial capability; the Taliban aren't
• The Turkic folks built empires in Hindustan; the Taliban didn't
• Etc..

 

[Meengla]

If the Taliban don't want any foreign troops , then it should be respected by all outsiders. It's their country after all. Besides, we shouldn't let anyone drag us into something that will come to bite us in the a** later, as has been the case till now.

Turkey is thousands of miles away, thus safe from any blow back from Taliban and others. Moreover, Turkey is doing this in hopes of repairing their frayed relations with the US and Europe, and in return for getting some nice perks from them, but at the expense of Afghani, and Pakistani interests.

For pakistan in such a scenario, there is little to no gain in being part of any such set up. Whether Kabul airport functions or not is not worth the lives of our soldiers. Those who benefit from it should guard it themselves. This is where our national interest clearly diverges from turkish interest.

Nailed it. Especially the bolded part. I can't believe the shameful servitude some Pakistanis have toward Turkey. Yes, they stand with Pakistan on Kashmir even by losing on trade with India. That's admirable but that is not some 'strategic' help to which Pakistan should offer strategic help in return. Afghanistan is Pakistan's Achilles Heel!!! It has been since 1979. Not even India has done the damage to Pakistan that the turmoil in Afghanistan has done: Refugees, terrorism, fake Pakistani passports by Afghans, infiltration of spies, disruption of social order in Peshawar and Karachi, drugs and gun culture ....
My one and only solution for the Afghanistan problem in our lifetime is: A division of Afghanistan along ethnic lines. The Pashtun belt becomes a buffer between Pakistan and other potentially India/West backed forces. Afghanistan is not a nation. It is a JUNGLE full of JUNGLIES! Countries have been making and breaking throughout human history. Let there be one more of such breakups.

 

[hydrabadi_arab]

Nailed it. Especially the bolded part. I can't believe the shameful servitude some Pakistanis have toward Turkey. Yes, they stand with Pakistan on Kashmir even by losing on trade with India. That's admirable but that is not some 'strategic' help to which Pakistan should offer strategic help in return. Afghanistan is Pakistan's Achilles Heel!!! It has been since 1979. Not even India has done the damage to Pakistan that the turmoil in Afghanistan has done: Refugees, terrorism, fake Pakistani passports by Afghans, infiltration of spies, disruption of social order in Peshawar and Karachi, drugs and gun culture ....
My one and only solution for the Afghanistan problem in our lifetime is: A division of Afghanistan along ethnic lines. The Pashtun belt becomes a buffer between Pakistan and other potentially India/West backed forces. Afghanistan is not a nation. It is a JUNGLE full of JUNGLIES! Countries have been making and breaking throughout human history. Let there be one more of such breakups.

This is why stupid Pakistanis celebrating Taliban taking non-pashtun districts is retarded. Its like they were born retarded and cannot see history repeating here. Peaceful afghanistan is only way forward. Not sure how that is possible when taliban who are fascist pashtuns want to rule non-pashtuns by force? Another civil war that will never end. I though there will be power sharing agreement but that doesn't look likely now.

They need some sort of federation system with ethnic based provinces. Something like Pakistan parliamentary system. Or they can continue to fight each other till some power decide to divide Afghanistan along ethnic lines.

Turkey need to stay away from Afghanistan.

 

[Adecypher]

As per FM SMQ the buck for peace in Afghanistan cannot be passed to Pakistan.

So Pakistan is looking for "regional powers" to collaborate and contribute to the peace process...so that NOT fully alienate Turkey. Is there a disconnect between the understanding of who to be included in group of "regional powers" between Pakistan and Taliban?

 

[Mrc]

Some points to ponder based on the discussion from Mete Yarar, a Turkish defense and political analyst, and my inputs:

• Afghanistan isn't the name of just another country. According to Brzezinski (the US architect of the USSR's fall serviced via Af-Pak), whoever controls Afghanistan controls the world
• Kemal Pasha took an especial interest on Afghanistan (no Pak at that time) even though Turkey was war-torn with virtually zero resources
• Afghanistan is too valuable to leave to the whims of the inexperienced Taliban, who aren't exactly in the best terms with the moderate Afghans. It's the recipe of further foreign-engineered turmoil with huge fallouts onto Pak
• A Turk-Pak "hybrid" presence inside Afghanistan - completely independent of any other powers in the world - can quench the qualms of the warring parties to some extent. Here, the "hybrid" presence means almost invisible behind-the-scene actions with not the nose of a single Pak or Turkish folk bleeding
• Such a presence can balance the other "presences". Flowers filled with honey attract the bees
• Pak and Turkey have got everything to benefit from it with little risk. There's no "free lunch" in this Dunya! As for the "free lunch" in the Ahiret, it needs to be earned while being in this Dunya
• Etc.​

We shud have a combined airbase with strong ground element.... Experience alone is worth it

 

[Old School]

If Turkey wants to help, they can do that without having military presence wearing NATO uniforms in Afghanistan. Even we don't go there wearing our uniforms either. Lol. It will be very difficult to convince the Taliban to accept the presence of a NATO member state regardless of their intentions.

 

[Meengla]

This is why stupid Pakistanis celebrating Taliban taking non-pashtun districts is retarded. Its like they were born retarded and cannot see history repeating here. Peaceful afghanistan is only way forward. Not sure how that is possible when taliban who are fascist pashtuns want to rule non-pashtuns by force? Another civil war that will never end. I though there will be power sharing agreement but that doesn't look likely now.

They need some sort of federation system with ethnic based provinces. Something like Pakistan parliamentary system. Or they can continue to fight each other till some power decide to divide Afghanistan along ethnic lines.

Turkey need to stay away from Afghanistan.

Good post and I totally agree.
I can't believe Turkey is agreeing to leave even ONE soldier in Afghanistan after the NATO withdrawal!!! No one would want 'boots on the ground' in Afghanistan. NO ONE! It is a hornets' nest where it is very easy to switch loyalties depending on how much is being paid. You know the Bronn guy from the Game of Thrones--the best 'sell sword' in that series. That's what the Afghan leadership has been and has been like that long before Pakistan got involved. Look at how the various Presidents of Afghanistan before 1979 asked foreign powers to stay in power or how the various warlords since 1979 doing the same. It is Pakistan's great misfortune to be next to this so-called 'nation'.

As for the Pashtun dominance in Afghanistan-- even if every Pashtun supports the Talibans, the Pashtuns are not even a majority in Afghanistan. Per my understanding, they are the largest ethnic group but not the majority. Wishing for their total--or even major takeover of Afghanistan--is not possible without active military support given to them by Pakistan with BOOTS ON THE GROUND. So it should be either a division along ethnic lines or a lose federation-- a very lose federation, and that too for vanity or national pride's sake!

 

[Vapour]

Let Pakistani presence, if there is a lot or if there is none, inside Afghanistan remain as it is. Official boots on the ground will not go well and will severely worsen the internal security of not only Afghanistan but also Pakistan.

I do believe in taking CT actions especially against TTP/NDS/Northern Alliance/BLA occupied regions along the Afghanistan border, so that these pockets of areas are cleared to prevent infiltration. There should also be a strong push to close Indian consulates which are terrorist in nature.

 

[Mr.Green]

What will Turkey achieve in Afghanistan? Propping up the Northern Alliance Tajiks and Uzbeks for a few more years and causing civil war in Afghanistan and retaliation by Taliban inside Pakistan.

Turkey is trying to be the leader of the Muslim World on the basis of the Artugral Drama. But Turkish Caliphate is now a part of history just like the Ummayad and Abbasid Caliphates.
Time has moved ahead with almost a hundred years passed since the abolishment of Turkish Caliphate.
The Turks have a long history of struggle under the secularists.

The Taliban has said that anyone who lays down his arms and surrenders will not be harmed. It is a remembrance of the fall of Makkah where the Holy Prophet PBUH offered similar terms to the Kuffar.

This offer has been accepted by the Afghan Army soldiers in many districts. the soldiers have laid down their weapons and have gone to their native villages unharmed.

The Tajiks and Uzbeks will be given a respectable place in Afghanistan. So there is no reason for Turkey financing a Civil war in Afghanistan.

 

[Mr.Green]

What will Turkey achieve in Afghanistan? Propping up the Northern Alliance Tajiks and Uzbeks for a few more years and causing civil war in Afghanistan and retaliation by Taliban inside Pakistan.

Turkey is trying to be the leader of the Muslim World on the basis of the Artugral Drama. But Turkish Caliphate is now a part of history just like the Ummayad and Abbasid Caliphates.

The Taliban has said that anyone who lays down his arms and surrenders will not be harmed. It is a remembrance of the fall of Makkah where the Holy Prophet PBUH offered similar terms to the Kuffar.

The Tajiks and Uzbeks will be given a respectable place in Afghanistan. So there is no reason for Turkey financing a Civil war in Afghanistan.

Turkey is flexing its muscles but after one year it will be running with its tail between its legs!

Afghan baqi Kohsar baqi!