Planning to buy Nuclear Submarines?

[EagleEyes]

Canadian MP calls for opening Indo-Pak border for trade
By Irfan Ghauri

ISLAMABAD: Jim Karygiannis, a Canadian parliamentarian, has called for opening the Pakistan-India border to boost trade ties between the two South Asian countries.

Speaking at a news conference on Monday he urged both governments to soften the international borders. “Unless you are willing to make up yourself, it will never happen,” he said. He welcomed the decision to open the Line of Control (LoC), terming it the beginning of peaceful coexistence between the two countries. The visiting Canadian MP also welcomed President Pervez Musharraf’s decision to postpone the purchase of F-16 fighter jets to increase relief supplies to quake victims. He said the government of Pakistan must also cancel its plans of buying nuclear submarines from China and divert the money to the rehabilitation of quake victims.

“I received a phone calls from my constituency Scarborough Agincourt, asking me why should they donate their money for Pakistan if it was spending huge amounts to purchase nuclear submarines at this time”. The government of Pakistan should divert this money to help thousands of destitute children in quake-hit areas, he added.

He urged the international community to step up aid for the quake victims, and said that Canada will raise the issue at international forums, requesting the world community to do more for the people of Pakistan. “Many countries have committed to provide reconstruction aid, but the need is now. Food costs money, shelter costs money and the means of transporting this aid to victims costs money,” he said, adding that several countries had contributed to this aid, but many need to do more.

He said Canada’s commitment was one of the highest per-capita, and urged every country to match Canada’s per capita commitment. He said he visited some of the quake hit areas and met with NGOs and United Nations officials who told him that they were striving to make sure that every one of the over three million homeless receive the necessary food and shelter, however they are faced with an acute shortage of funds and resources.

“What is most of the world waiting for? Winter is approaching, they should help now to save lives,” he sai. He appreciated the efforts of the Canadian Disaster Assistance Response Team (DART). He said four fully equipped hospitals were being run by DART and they had distributed more than 1 million litres of purified water to victims so far.

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?p...-11-2005_pg7_46

 

[EagleEyes]

Pakistan is trying to buy nuclear submarines from China? I thought we will be making it indeginiously, and we dont have a permission to acquire from other countries.

I think it will be something like how India acquired its nuclear submarine.

 

[Sharjeel]

may be its some ex pakistani pandu living in canada now. who made it up to damage the goverment?

he did say one of his constituants and even if it was a small march you know how marches happen. ok khala gee you come aswell.. lol you can get 100+ from own family lol.

 

[Kaiser]

Its pretty obvious that were either trieing to make a nuclear sub. with china or trying to buy some mysterious one but, this is some good new...just imagine 1-3 nuclear subs in our navy......

 

[Sharjeel]

the plan is to make one not buy

 

[miroslav]

Originally posted by Kaiser@Nov 8 2005, 08:14 PM
Its pretty obvious that were either trieing to make a nuclear sub. with china or trying to buy some mysterious one but, this is some good new...just imagine 1-3 nuclear subs in our navy......

[post=2504]Quoted post[/post]​

Also Imagine their maintainance.

Also imagine the imbalance in the Pakistan Navy.

No good Surface fleet but a hell lot of submarines.

Miro

 

[EagleEyes]

Originally posted by miroslav@Nov 8 2005, 06:30 PM
Also Imagine their maintainance.

Also imagine the imbalance in the Pakistan Navy.

No good Surface fleet but a hell lot of submarines.

Miro

[post=2516]Quoted post[/post]​

Hey Miro,

Does surface fleet has to be strong? Why can't subs have communication between each other and ports?

 

[ajeet]

Originally posted by Ahsan F@Nov 8 2005, 09:17 PM
Hey Miro,

Does surface fleet has to be strong? Why can't subs have communication between each other and ports? 

[post=2530]Quoted post[/post]​

A sub is most effective when it hide its presence...a silent predater under the sea...submarine warfare is all about stealth and quick getaway.. frequent commn btwn sub will reveal its positions

 

[Sharjeel]

Originally posted by ajeet@Nov 9 2005, 07:21 AM
A sub is most effective when it hide its presence...a silent predater under the sea...submarine warfare is all about stealth and quick getaway.. frequent commn btwn sub will reveal its positions

[post=2580]Quoted post[/post]​

lets think another way.

since all the pakistanis will start ranting about how we can blow IN carriers etc ill talk about amrika and UK.

they can deliver an airforce and army anywhere on earth. "most of the countrys we park outside are afraid of us not because america is power full but becouse our carier group has a more power full air force then that induvidual or those group of nations combined in their entire inventory" some one from a USN carrier group.

with out the surface fleet would UK have been able to take back the falklands?

thats the advantage IN has.

 

[miroslav]

Originally posted by Ahsan F@Nov 9 2005, 02:17 AM
Hey Miro,

Does surface fleet has to be strong? Why can't subs have communication between each other and ports? 

[post=2530]Quoted post[/post]​

Then why the world's Strongest Navies have the Surface Fleets?

Why there are Destrotyers, Frigates and Cruisers?

German U boats made life hell for it's enemies. Still Germany had strong surface beasts like Bismark.

Others have enlighten you already.

Thanks

Miro

 

[EagleEyes]

Well thats not the case for Pakistan Navy is it? Our navy is much like a defensive navy, and a very small navy. Submarines can stay near the coast and stay in contact with the coast plus the small surface fleet. I heard we now also have Spruance class destroyer, but its not confirmed since most of the things go secretly.

For the future its a totally change for the Pakistan Navy. There will be two advanced type submarines plus 1-2 nuclear submarines, supported by F-22p and Perry Class Frigates both are capable of carrying anti-helicopters.

Not just that PN has a dedicated Mirage fleet which will be converted into JF-17 or F-16 or hell maybe J-10C for naval role. Hmm what else 12 P-3C orions for martime role!

I think we are settle for pretty advanced defensive force. I also heard the rumours of AESA radar on Spruance destroyers?

Originally posted by miroslav@Nov 10 2005, 05:42 PM
Then why the world's Strongest Navies have the Surface Fleets?

Why there are Destrotyers, Frigates and Cruisers?

German U boats made life hell for it's enemies. Still Germany had strong surface beasts like Bismark.

Others have enlighten you already.

Thanks

Miro

[post=2636]Quoted post[/post]​

 

[miroslav]

Originally posted by WebMaster@Nov 11 2005, 02:19 AM
Well thats not the case for Pakistan Navy is it? Our navy is much like a defensive navy, and a very small navy. Submarines can stay near the coast and stay in contact with the coast plus the small surface fleet.

[post=2646]Quoted post[/post]​

I wish you could be the PN Admiral forr this strategy.

Subs should be on front creating obstacles for the IN beasts like Talwar's, Delhi's,Brahmaputra's, Kora's ETC.

If you put the surface fleet ahead without subs IN surface fleet and especially the stealth bitches ( 9 by 2010) will eat the PN surface ships.

IN surface fleet is armed with BrahMos/Club's and Uran's.

and once the surface fleet is finished subs can be hunted by the IN subs and anti sub assets.

I heard we now also have Spruance class destroyer, but its not confirmed since most of the things go secretly.

Last time I heared about Ex-UK Type-23 frigates as well. In facts some Pakistani brothers sunk few Indian Naval ships with this Frigates.

For the future its a totally change for the Pakistan Navy. There will be two advanced type submarines plus 1-2 nuclear submarines, supported by F-22p and Perry Class Frigates both are capable of carrying anti-helicopters.

Please check my Indian Navy thread.

The future for PN is not so bright.

IN is gonna have 9 Stealth ships by 2010.

2 Akula's on lease and the Desi nuke sub ATV.

MiG-29K will come for a company of Harriers.

also can you support your claims by some links/sources???

Not just that PN has a dedicated Mirage fleet

Lets face reality.

Harriers are already upgraded with Derby BVR. Mirages have no chance against the MiG-29K.

which will be converted into JF-17 or F-16 or hell maybe J-10C for naval role.

JF-17,F-16 and J-10 please talk some reality for God's sake you are a webby.

Hmm what else 12 P-3C orions for martime role!

How about their air cover??

Who is gonna save them from the blood thirsty Indians on Harriers/Fulcrums and JAGS?

Besides IN has 8 Tu-142 and 12 KA-28/ 9 KA-31 and unknown numbers of Dhruv.

Thanks,

Miro

 

[Thunder]

One question ? How the h*** can a naval ship be stealth. One can see it clearly in the open ocean since they are hugggeeeeee. And the camo does'nt exectly work

 

[miroslav]

Originally posted by Thunder@Nov 22 2005, 02:50 AM
One question ? How the h*** can a naval ship be stealth. One can see it clearly in the open ocean since they are hugggeeeeee. And the camo does'nt exectly work

[post=3378]Quoted post[/post]​

Two advices while communicating with me.

# 1 Be Polite
# 2 If you don't know anything be kind enough to ask. I will be more happy to explain.

I am not here to fight but to share knowledge.

MoD's please note

Now answer to your question.

The ship is always visible to human eyes but in naval warfare especially in 21st century the ships dosent come in the range of visibility.

You have to track and hunt enemy ships with your surface/submarine fleet.

And enemy ships will be tracked though Sonar/Radars.

Ships like Talwar's/P-17's and Type-15A are having low visibility scheme, different designs, different hull deisgn and structure and mostly there is a difference between the metal which is being used.

That makes the ship(s) stealth on the radar/sonar.

All the above IN ships carry/will carry Club and Brahmos so they can detect enemy ships from 300+ nautical miles and fire against them.

Thanks,

Miro

P.S: - With regard to your question you can also see that planes like F-22/B-2 can be seen in open air but they are stealth to radars.

 

[tphuang]

Originally posted by miroslav@Nov 22 2005, 04:52 AM
Two advices while communicating with me.

# 1 Be Polite
# 2 If you don't know anything be kind enough to ask. I will be more happy to explain.

I am not here to fight but to share knowledge.

MoD's please note

Now answer to your question.

The ship is always visible to human eyes but in naval warfare especially in 21st century the ships dosent come in the range of visibility.

You have to track and hunt enemy ships with your surface/submarine fleet.

And enemy ships will be tracked though Sonar/Radars.

Ships like Talwar's/P-17's and Type-15A are having low visibility scheme, different designs, different hull deisgn and structure and mostly there is a difference between the metal which is being used.

That makes the ship(s) stealth on the radar/sonar.

All the above IN ships carry/will carry Club and Brahmos so they can detect enemy ships from 300+ nautical miles and fire against them.

Thanks,

Miro

P.S: - With regard to your question you can also see that planes like F-22/B-2 can be seen in open air but they are stealth to radars.

[post=3418]Quoted post[/post]​

miroslav, original Talwar and Delhi are not considered to be stealthy at all. Their original hulls were not designed with stealth in mind, but putting the most potent weapon systems on their.

As for detecting enemy ships, do you have any proof that IN ships have radars that powerful? Club and Brahmos are both 300 KM or under due to MTCR.

The upgraded Talwar and Delhi are considered to be more stealthy, but still cannot be considered stealthy. If you want to know what's stealthy, take a look at Lafayette.

PN definitely cannot withstand an IN attack, but you are overstating the capabilities of IN.