Planets DONT orbit around the centre of sun.

[zip]

Umm...i tried to keep it simple.
Let me try again...
Sun is a giant star and has a strong gravity but when it interacts with any planet then a gravity well is formed.
In simple systems the barycenter is permanently located in the space between the two objects but in our solar system most of the planets are tiny when compared to the sun and ergo the BARYCENTER lies somewhere between sun's Center and surface, except Jupiter.


Why weird?
I thought it was apt.
Doesn't it break the conventional thought process of planets revolving around the sun?
Infact sun and planets orbit each other so do the moon and Earth.

Sun and planet orbit around each other !! What will happen in hypothetical scenario when planet size almost equals to star ?

 

[Grevion]

Let me try.

1) Let's say you have two marbles. One bigger, one smaller.

2) Now put the small marble on a table and give it a push and see what happens. Most likely it will roll in a straight line.

3) Now tie both the marbles with a thread. Now one end you have large marble and the other small marble.

4) Now hold the large marble in your hand and try to spin your hand. You would notice that the smaller marble at the end of the thread move in circular fashion.

5) Try to spin even faster and faster. There would be a time when the smaller marble at the other end might slip the knot and fly away from you

What did you learn? You applied some force in step 2 and the marble moved in a straight line which is the natural path. You applied some force on step 4 but this time it move in circular fashion as the hand is also applying reverse force through the thread. Now on step 5 the force was so huge that the smaller marble flies away in straight line.

Now if you replace these marbles with two magnets, you do not need a thread as the magnets are attracted to each other by nature.

Let say the smaller magnet is already moving but at the same time the bigger magnet is applying equal force on it so that it wont fly away or fall away and get attached to the bigger magnet. What would happen in this case is that as the bigger magnet is moving, the smaller magnet would keep moving around the bigger one.

Now if we put the bigger magnet is a bigger plastic ball and smaller magnet in a smaller plastic ball as an enclosure. The magnets within these balls still get attracted and now the smaller plastic ball goes around the bigger plastic ball. Now what we are saying is that it is not the plastic balls that are causing this circular motion due to attraction but it is due to the attraction of the magnets within those plastic balls.

The bigger plastic ball is Sun while the smaller plastic ball is Earth.

Hope I did not confuse you more....

So you mean if the sun applies more pressure on earth, the earth will fly away in a straight line.

 

[TMA]

Let me try.

1) Let's say you have two marbles. One bigger, one smaller.

2) Now put the small marble on a table and give it a push and see what happens. Most likely it will roll in a straight line.

3) Now tie both the marbles with a thread. Now one end you have large marble and the other small marble.

4) Now hold the large marble in your hand and try to spin your hand. You would notice that the smaller marble at the end of the thread move in circular fashion.

5) Try to spin even faster and faster. There would be a time when the smaller marble at the other end might slip the knot and fly away from you

What did you learn? You applied some force in step 2 and the marble moved in a straight line which is the natural path. You applied some force on step 4 but this time it move in circular fashion as the hand is also applying reverse force through the thread. Now on step 5 the force was so huge that the smaller marble flies away in straight line.

Now if you replace these marbles with two magnets, you do not need a thread as the magnets are attracted to each other by nature.

Let say the smaller magnet is already moving but at the same time the bigger magnet is applying equal force on it so that it wont fly away or fall away and get attached to the bigger magnet. What would happen in this case is that as the bigger magnet is moving, the smaller magnet would keep moving around the bigger one.

Now if we put the bigger magnet is a bigger plastic ball and smaller magnet in a smaller plastic ball as an enclosure. The magnets within these balls still get attracted and now the smaller plastic ball goes around the bigger plastic ball. Now what we are saying is that it is not the plastic balls that are causing this circular motion due to attraction but it is due to the attraction of the magnets within those plastic balls.

The bigger plastic ball is Sun while the smaller plastic ball is Earth.

Hope I did not confuse you more....

Thank you. I will have to think about this...

To use the term of the teenagers of today: "SICK!"

Now can someone tell me what is the difference between vortex and rotation?

 

[dadeechi]

So you mean if the sun applies more pressure on earth, the earth will fly away in a straight line.

I meant to say if earth revolves faster and faster around the sun it would escape from the gravitational force of the sun.

 

[war&peace]

Thank you. I will have to think about this...


To use the term of the teenagers of today: "SICK!"

Now can someone tell me what is the difference between vortex and rotation?

On colloquial level, rotation is generic term and can be used to describe the circular motion of any object while vortex is rotation of the fluid particles, so it is particular to fluids. Then there are further types of vortices but I guess let you absorb the info and let your curiosity seek further.

 

[Anubis]

Your example is flawed. I do understand what you are trying to say, but since apple is supported by earth (while it is hanging from tree), there is no question of earth moving towards apple (it is like sitting inside a car and pushing it). Now, the moment apple starts to fall down, then the situation you said arises. now, since g force is equal and opposite between the 2, with law of momentum (2nd law) f=m1a1=m2a2 (1 for apple, 2 for earth). a1/a2=m2/m1. assuming apple to be .1 kg, a1/a2=6e25 or acceleration of apple is 6e25 times of that of earth. so, technically, earth moves that much times the distance towards apple, meaning if apple was hanging 10 meter above earth (again some idealization required), earth will move 10/6e25/2*t^2 (too lazy to calculate t) towards apple...


Earth's orbit is near circular...


I got that, my contention was planets still rotate around sun, just not centered around sun...

Your example is flawed. I do understand what you are trying to say, but since apple is supported by earth (while it is hanging from tree), there is no question of earth moving towards apple (it is like sitting inside a car and pushing it). Now, the moment apple starts to fall down, then the situation you said arises. now, since g force is equal and opposite between the 2, with law of momentum (2nd law) f=m1a1=m2a2 (1 for apple, 2 for earth). a1/a2=m2/m1. assuming apple to be .1 kg, a1/a2=6e25 or acceleration of apple is 6e25 times of that of earth. so, technically, earth moves that much times the distance towards apple, meaning if apple was hanging 10 meter above earth (again some idealization required), earth will move 10/6e25/2*t^2 (too lazy to calculate t) towards apple...


Earth's orbit is near circular...


I got that, my contention was planets still rotate around sun, just not centered around sun...

It is circular if you have a really bad eye for precision....the difference between the closest and farthest distance from the earth to the sun is more than 3 million freakin miles.

Lawyer's logic don't work in physics....'rotating around' could mean a lot of things if it is not meant 'centered around'....since the orbit of all planets farther from the sun compared to earth must encompass the space earth,venus and mecury orbit in it can be said that Jupiter orbits 'around' mars,earth,venus and mercury.

 

[Grevion]

I meant to say if earth revolves faster and faster around the sun it would escape from the gravitational force of the sun.

Escape to where? Roam freely in space.

 

[TMA]

This should help other to understand...

Fantastic!!! Mashallah!!

 

[dadeechi]

Escape to where? Roam freely in space.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escape_velocity

 

[911]

First of all, if you go into details there are a lot of other factors involved too which needs to be taken into account, most of which are not even taugh in schools and i bet you havn't studied them as well. That was just a simple silly question which initially i thought would be tricky because of the way he asked

a1/a2=6e25 or acceleration of apple is 6e25 times of that of earth. so, technically, earth moves that much times the distance towards apple

Sorry wrong. First of all ratio acc. of apple is to acc. of earth is equal to mass of earth if you take apple's mass 1kg.
a1/a2 = m2
You say "so technically earth moves that much times the distance towards apple" is wrong. You have applied v=d/t equation on acceleration replacing velocity. When you multiply velocity with a constant, increase in distance is linear but if you multiply acceleration with a constant, increase in distance is exponential.

meaning if apple was hanging 10 meter above earth (again some idealization required), earth will move 10/6e25/2*t^2 (too lazy to calculate t) towards apple...

What equation you applied here? If you want to calculate time there is this kinematic eq. for it

d= vi*t + 1/2 at^2
Taking initial velocity 0 m/s and distance 10m
10= 1/2 at^2 => t = (20/a)^-2, where a is acc. of apple which first needs to be calculated using F=Gm1m2/r^2= m1a1

Is this really defence forum?

 

[Levina]

That means Pluto and Charon orbit around each other.

They behave like a binary system.

The title of this thread should be "Planets do not orbit around the center of the Sun."

Corrected.

Sun and planet orbit around each other !! What will happen in hypothetical scenario when planet size almost equals to star ?

Binary system will be formed...i assume.

Is this really defence forum?

This is science and technology section.