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PIA plane crash near Model Colony Karachi with 93+ on board

PIA records 43% increase in profit for year 2019

https://www.google.com/amp/s/tribune.com.pk/story/2224621/1-pia-records-43-increase-profit-year-2019/?amp=1


Why news like such fails to reach people like you?
"It is for the first time in eight years that PIA has been able to achieve a gross profit of Rs7.8 billion against gross loss of Rs19.7 billion in 2018."

I'm all for running this indefinitely but SOE's have proven to be a breeding ground for vote bank politics. Unless you decouple political appointments within these (good luck with that) this is going to be very short term.
 
What is wrong with my schemes if PIA has been nothing but disastrous for Pakistan for past years?! A big burden on our economy. Either sell all of its assets or privatize it. They should have done it as soon as CEO of PIA lost his case in Supreme court. There is no winning after he lost his case, ghost employees are still working at PIA and they are in hundreds.
When "Ghost Employees" of any state owned enterprise are fired "Jamhooriat khatray may aajati hai"
 
These government institutions like PIA and Railway need to be privatized over time. The best way to make money for government is to make these institutions good enough so they are privatized and sold to competent companies over profit. Then this process is repeated again and again. Makes you wonder what a retard like Bhutto was doing nationalizing stuff?
 
I agree, but the problem was his first touch down was to way too far and maybe he didn't realize that he had scrapped/damaged the engines, besides when you are intentionally coming in for a touch and go hoping to bump out the nose gear, you are coming in slightly sharp and fast and committed to take off again, it all happens within seconds and you don't have time to look out the window and see if the engines are damaged or not. I think the manoeuvre was fine but the execution was not perfect.

We need to realize this kind of things are practised on simulators only and I am not sure how frequently? so when you come face to face with such a situation it's always going to be risky.
CAA does test for new pilots in the UAE. Either we dont have sims, or not enough. There is something seriously wrong with Pak Civil Aviation industry not having enough Sims, if at all.
 
Hi,

This is a flight simulation of the accident---but the voices are actal---@ 3:41 onwards you can hear it in the voice of the Co pilot or the Pilot that they are going to die---the hopelessness in those 1/2 sentences just tears thru the heart---.

 
There was something wrong with the whole landing gear not just the nose gear and I want to ask a question to whom it may concern how did the aircraft got acceleration/power/lift after scraping the runway with it's engines multiple times i.e
How could they fly again after loosing momentum and air under it's wings without the wheels and if there were wheels the damage to the engines in the photographs
Would not have occurred that way it does not compute there's something fishy about the whole narrative.
 
There was something wrong with the whole landing gear not just the nose gear and I want to ask a question to whom it may concern how did the aircraft got acceleration/power/lift after scraping the runway with it's engines multiple times i.e
How could they fly again after loosing momentum and air under it's wings without the wheels and if there were wheels the damage to the engines in the photographs
Would not have occurred that way it does not compute there's something fishy about the whole narrative.

Hi,

There was nothing wrong with the landing gear---.

The aircraft was to high at 5 nautical miles to the runway---it was at 3500 feet whereas it should have been around 2000 feet---.

His speed was too high---possibly above 250 knots---at the speed the landing gear will not come down---and chimes will sound in the cockpit---and you can hear them sound---.

As the speed was too high---the pilot push the throttles against the wall---the engines were working perfect till that time and gave immediate thrust to take off again---.

This also shows that the aircraft was too fast to land because it was way above the take off speed after it hit the runway---.

The bottom of the engines were smashed when it hit the tarmac---a visual report by airport official says the aircraft hit tarmac three time---.

First left engine hot at 4500 ft marker then at about the same distance the right engine hit the tarmac---plane took off and fell back at 5500 foot marker where both engines hit the tarmac at the same time and then took off again---.

After it took off an climbed---the engine speed came down to below 250 knots and the wheels came down---.

And that is another tragedy----as the engines were now shutting down due to damage and there was power loss---the hanging wheels created a MASSIVE DRAG ON THE AIRCRAFT FLIGHT---. If now the wheels were kept up---with lesser drag the aircraft could have reached the runway for a belly landing---.

Whatever problems occurred were before the first landing attempt that caused the disaster---.
 
My man, i quoted another incident report to compare what happens when a plane touches down without landing gear.. there are no bounces..

@2.40 Mark, listen to the passenger narrative...


well , here, a 320-------finest, but still error, while landing

 
Hi,

There was nothing wrong with the landing gear---.

The aircraft was to high at 5 nautical miles to the runway---it was at 3500 feet whereas it should have been around 2000 feet---.

His speed was too high---possibly above 250 knots---at the speed the landing gear will not come down---and chimes will sound in the cockpit---and you can hear them sound---.

As the speed was too high---the pilot push the throttles against the wall---the engines were working perfect till that time and gave immediate thrust to take off again---.

This also shows that the aircraft was too fast to land because it was way above the take off speed after it hit the runway---.

The bottom of the engines were smashed when it hit the tarmac---a visual report by airport official says the aircraft hit tarmac three time---.

First left engine hot at 4500 ft marker then at about the same distance the right engine hit the tarmac---plane took off and fell back at 5500 foot marker where both engines hit the tarmac at the same time and then took off again---.

After it took off an climbed---the engine speed came down to below 250 knots and the wheels came down---.

And that is another tragedy----as the engines were now shutting down due to damage and there was power loss---the hanging wheels created a MASSIVE DRAG ON THE AIRCRAFT FLIGHT---. If now the wheels were kept up---with lesser drag the aircraft could have reached the runway for a belly landing---.

Whatever problems occurred were before the first landing attempt that caused the disaster---.
But the question is why both the alt and the speed were that high I mean all the three failed 1)pilots 2)aircraft instruments and 3)control tower how can that happen.
 
They didn't fail immediately, scrapping caused some damage to the lower part that probably damaged fuel lines and the failure followed after a couple of seconds in the air

There was something wrong with the whole landing gear not just the nose gear and I want to ask a question to whom it may concern how did the aircraft got acceleration/power/lift after scraping the runway with it's engines multiple times i.e
How could they fly again after loosing momentum and air under it's wings without the wheels and if there were wheels the damage to the engines in the photographs
Would not have occurred that way it does not compute there's something fishy about the whole narrative.

The CT-Pilot communication released is not enough to tell the full story, it should be the last 15 minutes because approximately that is when the landing gears are engaged before the landing.
 
They didn't fail immediately, scrapping caused some damage to the lower part that probably damaged fuel lines and the failure followed after a couple of seconds in the air



The CT-Pilot communication released is not enough to tell the full story, it should be the last 15 minutes because approximately that is when the landing gears are engaged before the landing.
But as mastan Khan stated both the speed
and the alt were very high at first approach
It shows a total system failure pilots, instruments, control tower etc
 
I worked out altitude data. Based on this data, here is what I found:

8,000 feet 3 minutes from touchdown

3,500 feet 5 nm from runway

1,500 feet 4 nm from runway

1,300 feet 1 minute from touchdown

nm=nautical miles

fpm = feet per minute descending

35,000 feet to 10,000 feet in 13 minutes (1,900 fpm descent)

10,000 feet to touchdown in 4 minutes (2,500 fpm descent)

10,000 feet to 2,000 feet in 120 seconds (4,000 fpm descent)

8,000 feet to 2,000 feet in 90 seconds (4,000 fpm descent)

8,000 feet to 1,300 feet in 120 seconds (3,300 fpm descent)

Possible explanation for why pilots forgot the gear:

Can someone tell me if this is possible?
  1. Plane is at 35,000 feet.
  2. ATC tells plane to descend to 10,000 feet
  3. Plane descends to 10,000 feet
  4. ATC tells plane to descend from 10,000 to waypoint
  5. Pilots take too long to start descending and then rapidly dump altitude to descend in order to meet waypoint since they have less time
  6. Pilots continue rapid descent dumping altitude quickly. At 8,000 feet, they were 3 minutes from runway, at 1,300 feet they were 1 minute from the runway. So they descended 6,000 feet in 90 seconds.
  7. Plane approaches waypoint at too high an altitude.
  8. At 5 nm waypoint from runway, plane should be 1,700 feet, but it was actually at 3,500 feet (too high).
  9. ATC offers pilots a circling vector so they can circle and dump excess altitude and approach waypoint a 2nd time at a lower altitude.
  10. Pilots decline ATC’s offer for circling vector to burn off and dump excess altitude, they tell ATC they can make ILS 25L from their current altitude 3,500 (which is too high).
  11. Plane was 3,500 feet at 5nm, 1,500 feet at 4nm. So they dumped 2,000 feet in 1 nm.
  12. During this rapid descent, pilots tried to lower gear earlier than usual to reduce speed and dump altitude.
  13. Pilot moves gear lever in cockpit in down position for gear down, but plane was going too fast to extend the gear so pilots got an overspeed warning, indicating gear cannot extend while plane is going faster than 260kts, but lever does not move back to up position, lever stays in down position even though overspeed warning means the landing gear is actually in up position.
  14. Pilots complete landing checklist, lever in down position indicates that gear is down as normal. Cockpit gear lever in down position at approach speed near runway also means that no EGPWS alarm would not be going off, when in reality the overspeed warning earlier means the landing gear is actually still in up position. Since gear overspeed warning only sounds when plane is faster than 260kts, the plane would be slower than 260kts near the runway and the gear overspeed warning would have turned off. Since cockpit gear lever is in correct down position as normal, and lever in down position means EGPWS thinks gear is down, EGPWS alarm is not going off. In reality, the gear overspeed warning earlier in the flight was ignored by accident because the pilots should have moved cockpit gear lever back in up position immediately after getting overspeed warning, slow down below 260kts, and then try second time to move gear lever into down position again at a lower speed. The gear lever does not automatically move back up if you get an overspeed warning, so if you forget to immediately put the lever back up when gear fails to go down, later you will think that gear lever is correct as showing gear down when it is actually wrong and gear is up. After several minutes, pilots may have forgotten that they never tried to lower the gear again a second time after the gear overspeed warning and thought it was already down based on the fact that gear lever in cockpit was in correct position (which they forgot to move back up since overspeed warning meant gear did not go down) and no EGPWS alarm was going off. In reality, since the gear lever did not automatically move back up when overspeed warning failed to extend gear, pilots thought their landing gear was down when it was actually in up position.
  15. Plane is approaching runway very fast at high speed, everything else looks normal, gear lever is down, no alarms are going off.
  16. Plane hits the ground on just engines, this is the first time pilots realize that gear is up, big surprise to pilots. The first point that the plane touches down is halfway along the runway, so only half of the runway is left when they first hit the ground.
  17. Engines scrape ground causing black skid marks
  18. Pilot instinct is to pull up and abort a bad landing which is what they are trained to do. Since the plane was already coming in very fast and touched down halfway along the runway, pilots were already thinking about going around even before landing, and with half the runway left, they knew they would overshoot the end of the runway if they tried to stop so they aborted instead.
  19. Plane goes around for 2nd landing attempt
  20. Plane circles in air for 5 minutes to get back to runway
  21. During these 5 minutes, hydraulic fluid and oil is rapidly leaking out from pipes that were scraped on bottom of engine. Fuel is NOT leaking out.
  22. Total loss of hydraulic failure after all hydraulic fluid leaks out from ruptured hydraulic pipes on bottom of both scraped engines, flaps stop working and landing gear issues get worse. White smoke in PSPK picture is hydraulic fluid leaking out of bottom of the scraped engine.
  23. All oil rapidly leaks out from oil sumps on bottom of both scraped engines, without oil both engines overheat and shut down, plane now becomes glider with no thrust. Fan blades in engine are intact which means engines were not running when plane crashed.
  24. Ram Air Turbine automatically deploys when both engines shut down to power critical electronics in cockpit.
  25. Since both engines stop working, plane rapidly loses altitude and starts gliding.
  26. PSPK picture with RAT deployed is taken
  27. Landing gear is manually deployed by gravity drop increasing drag and makes gliding more difficult
  28. Plane loses even more altitude as it makes left turn over Model Colony to line up with 25L
  29. Plane lines up with 25L but it lost too much altitude by deploying gear early and then lost more altitude by making turn to 25L. Plane is now critically low and cannot make it to runway.
  30. Plane was only leaking hydraulic fluid and oil, not fuel so there is plenty of fuel left when plane crashes causing massive fireball on CCTV video.
It turns out the theory that the plane had gear down and then bounced and aborted a hard landing, retracted gear early, and scraped engine is wrong. Gear retraction takes 8 seconds so if plane had retracted gear after bounce but before TOGA thrust kicks in, it would have bounced back down in 1-2 seconds while gear retraction takes 8 seconds. There would not have been enough time for landing gear to fully retract in only a 1-2 second bounce. Landing gear doors would have been ripped off at the same time the engines scraped the ground like in Smartlynx incident in Estonia. We know from PSPK pictures that landing gear doors are clean, there is no sign of any damage or ripped landing gear doors. So this means only way it could have no damage to landing gear doors is if landing gear was never deployed in the first place, and only engines scraped ground. The very long skid marks on runway could be either because TOGA took a long time to spool up since friction would make it hard to get airborne again, or alternatively it could be because TOGA in Airbus is not a button like in Boeing, you have to push throttle levers all the way forward to activate TOGA, if you only moves throttle partially, it will not activate TOGA. So this could have delayed response by a few seconds.

Huge question is why did ATC not say a word if they saw a plane coming for approach with no landing gear?
 
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But the question is why both the alt and the speed were that high I mean all the three failed 1)pilots 2)aircraft instruments and 3)control tower how can that happen.

Hi,

Only the Pilot failed---.

The Controller can only request information---.

More info coming out suggests that where the aircraft was supposed to be at 7000 ft it was at 10000 ft

close to the runway where it was supposed to be at 1000 ft---it was at 1500 ft and then off course the speed---.

It was till this information came out---all points towards PILOT ERROR---.

Tower has no blame---visibility clear---.

Only and only one aircraft possibly in the air flying over whole of pakistan and the Pilot botched the landing---and smashed the aircraft into the tarmac multiple times---.
 
Life is such a harsh and unfair place.

May god have mercy on the victims and sooth the sorrow of their families and loved ones.
 
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