PIA plane crash near Model Colony Karachi with 93+ on board

[JonAsad]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2672301083031847

Looks like approach was too fast and TOGA error

Quote""On Boeing aircraft TO/GA modes are selected by a separate switch near the throttle levers, but on Airbus aircraft it is activated by pushing the thrust levers fully forward to the TO/GA detent.""

Since the aircraft make was Airbus, TOGA error Highly unlikey..

 

[HAIDER]

Quote""On Boeing aircraft TO/GA modes are selected by a separate switch near the throttle levers, but on Airbus aircraft it is activated by pushing the thrust levers fully forward to the TO/GA detent.""

Since the aircraft make was Airbus, TOGA error Highly unlikey..

Is it pilot error or not ? .. according to control tower conversation, it confirmed pilot was on wrong altitude before landing.

 

[Safriz]

Quote""On Boeing aircraft TO/GA modes are selected by a separate switch near the throttle levers, but on Airbus aircraft it is activated by pushing the thrust levers fully forward to the TO/GA detent.""

Since the aircraft make was Airbus, TOGA error Highly unlikey..

But TOGA not engaging is the only explanation of why the plane engines touched tarmac twice.
Toga resets the plane to takeoff mode immediately with required engine and ailerons settings.
Doing so manually may make the plane instable , hence port and then starboard engine touches the runway on landing. The full throttle and plane takes off but engines take time to rev up and place cones down for a second time and both engines scrape the runway again.
So whatever happened, TOGA doesn't seem to have engaged

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Inma lillahi wa inna ilayhi rajioon. Allah taala inn mahroom nu jannat farmayy, ameen.

 

[Trango Towers]

Is it pilot error or not ? .. according to control tower conversation, it confirmed pilot was on wrong altitude before landing.

He couldn't gain height. He was asked and he replied engine problems

 

[Raider 21]

View attachment 635093

View attachment 635093 View attachment 635094

Yes.
Both engines showing significant damage on the bottom.
How and why the engines scraped the runway on the first attempt is not known and hopefully investigation report will reveal this.

Impossible to scrape the runway and then apply for full power for a go around. It takes a while for power and speed to pick up even when gears are down and locked during normal conditions. Otherwise ATC Karachi are very stupid to have not seen that.

 

[SQ8]

Impossible to scrape the runway and then apply for full power for a go around. It takes a while for power and speed to pick up even when gears are down and locked during normal conditions. Otherwise ATC Karachi are very stupid to have not seen that.

All things point to a hard initial landing.

 

[Raider 21]

All things point to a hard initial landing.

There would have resulted in too much friction to overcome that supposed scraping against the runway. N1 to TOGA would have not been enough at all.

 

[Safriz]

There would have resulted in too much friction to overcome that supposed scraping against the runway. N1 to TOGA would have not been enough at all.

As @JonAsad already pointed out Toga on Boeing and Airbus are different.
On airbus there are three stops on the throttle.
The lever only moves freely to first stop which is 60% thrust.

 

[HAIDER]

He couldn't gain height. He was asked and he replied engine problems

Issue was not related to gaining ...


Pakistan International Airlines flight PK 8303 crashed while attempting to landing in Karachi on 22 May. Flight 8303 was en route from Lahore when it crashed near the airport after conducting a go around and during its second landing attempt. The flight was operated by A320 AP-BLD.

This aircraft is tracked via MLAT, which means it does not broadcast position information via ADS-B. Flightradar24’s position data for MLAT tracked flights is calculated by the time difference of signal arrival to four receivers. If fewer than four receivers see the aircraft, position data cannot be calculated, thus limiting the positional data available for this flight. Altitude data is broadcast and altitude data was received from PK8303.

PK8303 Altitude Data

As per the recording, the PK 8303 flight crashed on approach following a go-around.
Based on the audio clip, at around 4m 45s into the recording, the plane went on a go-around. At around 6m 40s into the recording, the tower can be heard warning the pilot of a drop in altitude. Following, it was set on course at an altitude of 2,000.


At around 9m 01s into the clip, the pilot can be heard saying that it has lost the engines.

The tower then asks the pilot to confirm if it was proceeding with belly landing.

The pilot's response is not audible.

At 9m 20s in to the recording, the ATC informs that runaway is 'available to land on 2 5'.

The pilot responds in affirmative.

At 9m 32s, the pilot sends the SOS call. The tower then informs the pilot that both runways are available to land.

Here is a transcript of the last conversation between the ATC and pilot:

Pilot: We are proceeding direct, we have lost the engines.
ATC: Confirm you are carrying out a belly landing?
Pilot: (Unclear)
ATC: Runway available to land on 2 5
Pilot: Roger
Pilot: Sir, Mayday, Mayday, Mayday, Pakistan 8303
ATC: Pakistan 8303. Roger Sir. Both runways are available to land.

Click here for latest updates on the PIA plane crash

The ATC telling the pilot that both runways are open is the last conversation on record, before the audio cuts-off.

It is presumed that soon after the audio was terminated, the plane crash-landed in a residential area in Karachi.

 

[Safriz]

Is it pilot error or not ? .. according to control tower conversation, it confirmed pilot was on wrong altitude before landing.

It does look like the case.
The 92 news video @Mrc posted says that the plane touched down at 4500 feet mark on a 9000 feet runway.
I checked A320 data and the aircraft's minimum landing distance at operational load in 4500 feet.
So the pilot already landed at minimum distance left to stop the plane.
If the speed was higher than recommended then he couldn't have stopped at the end of remaining runway and had overshot.
This seems to be the reason why he had to re-takeoff.
And if TOGA wasn't engaged then many things can immediately go wrong. Such as unstable plane at full throttle, hence engine scraping.

 

[Aspen]

Captain Sajjad Gul’s body is being received, he boarded for the last time in PIA

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/ap-blu#248d9201

 

[SQ8]

There would have resulted in too much friction to overcome that supposed scraping against the runway. N1 to TOGA would have not been enough at all.

How much friction does it take to rip off some aluminum From an engine nacelle?

Moreover, there seems to be an assumption that the pilot touched down on both gears whereas it is possible that he may have slammed in with a left bank one gear..resulting in no.1 engine scraping then bounced to the next one to scape no.2.
Somewhat similar circumstances got a Turkish flight a few years ago.

 

[Raider 21]

How much friction does it take to rip off some aluminum From an engine nacelle?

Moreover, there seems to be an assumption that the pilot touched down on both gears whereas it is possible that he may have slammed in with a left bank one gear..resulting in no.1 engine scraping then bounced to the next one to scape no.2.
Somewhat similar circumstances got a Turkish flight a few years ago.

Not much, but going to TOGA on damaged engines will take a while if possible and regaining speed for a go around would take a lot of runway length.

ATC Karachi are incredibly calm, probably a normal sight to see aircraft doing touch and go's with engines.

 

[Safriz]

Not much, but going to TOGA on damaged engines will take a while if possible and regaining speed for a go around would take a lot of runway length.

ATC Karachi are incredibly calm, probably a normal sight to see aircraft doing touch and go's with engines.

Touch and go are very rare among passenger jets.
The cowling on A320 engine is carbon fibre not aluminium.
Hence no dent . But you can see ripped fibers hanging under the engine, in the one and only photograph taken by the plane Spotter