Philippines Announces $2 Billion Defense Expansion

[Aepsilons]

@mike2000 ,

There are estimated to be around 150,000 Japanese Nationals (Citizens of Japan) who live , reside, or work in the Republic of the Philippines. Considering this massive number of our Nationals in the Philippines, it is part of the Mandate of the Japanese Self Defense Force to protect the Citizens of Japan from armed conflict from a foreign state. The Re-interpretation of Article 9 explicitly allows the JSDF's branches, the JMSDF, JGSDF, JASDF to be mobilized to protect Japanese Interests, including and not limited to Japanese Nationals and relatives, Japanese property, and Allied interests.

So, thus, in the event that any nation that would attack the Philippines and threaten the safety of Japanese Nationals living in the Philippines, the JSDF would be mobilized en masse and neutralize any said threat.

In addition, given the strategic interests Japan has in the Philippines, if the Government of the Philippines were to request Japanese Military Aid in such an exigency, Japan would have the right to accept and provide whatever aid was necessary to effectively eradicate said threat. Given, our coordinated effort would also be , more than likely, in conjunction with American military movements.

 

[Zero_wing]

can philippine posters here give me any details about the armament of the Gregorio Del Pillar class Frigate? i'm kinda lazy to googling right now

Name: BRP Gregorio del Pilar (PF-15)
Namesake: Gregorio del Pilar (1875-1899), a Filipino revolutionary general
Operator: Philippine Navy
Acquired: May 13, 2011
Commissioned: December 14, 2011
Maiden voyage: July 18, 2011
Homeport: Subic Bay Freeport Zone
Nickname: BRP Goyo, BRP Goryo, BRP GDP
Status: in active service, as of 2014
Badge:
General characteristics
Class & type: Gregorio del Pilar class (Hamilton class)
Type: Frigate
Displacement: 3,250 tons, probably less due to removal of several weapons & sensors system
Length: 378 ft (115 m)
Beam: 43 ft (13 m)
Draft: 8.75 ft (2.67 m)
Decks: 7
Propulsion: Combined diesel or gas (CODOG) arrangement:
2 × Fairbanks-Morse 38TD8-1/8-12 12-cylinder diesel engines, each producing 3,500 shp (2,610 kW)
Total diesel engine output: 7,000 shp (5,220 kW) and 2 × Pratt & Whittney FT4A-6 gas turbines, each producing 18,000 shp (13,400 kW)
Total gas turbine output: 36,000 shp (26,800 kW)[1]
Speed: 29 knots (54 km/h)
Range: 14,000 nautical miles (25,900 km)
Endurance: 45 Days
Boats & landing
craft carried: 2 × RHIB
Crew: 85
Sensors and
processing systems:

• Raytheon/Furuno AN/SPS-73 surface search and navigation radar
• Furuno FAR-28X7 series X & S-band navigation radars
• Sperry Mk 92 Mod. 1 Fire Control System[1]

Electronic warfare
& decoys:

• 2 × Loral Hycor Mk.36 6-barrelled Super Rapid Blooming Offboard Chaff (SRBOC) decoy launchers[2]

Armament:

• 1 × OTO Melara Mk. 75 76mm/62 caliber dual purpose gun
• 1 × Mk. 38 Mod 0 chain gun
• 2 × Mark 16 20mm guns
• 6 × M2 Browning 12.7mm/50 caliber machine guns

Aircraft carried: 1 x AgustaWestland AW109 Power naval helicopter
Aviation facilities: retractable hangar and flight deck

 

[Cossack25A1]

Those 2 will be on the GDP class so you probably right on anti ship/anti sub capability. maybe they are just like the first 3 for now and the navy is just waiting for the anti sub helo bidding to finalized for commonality in sensors and weapons .

I just wished we considered the A129 Mangusta as it is a dedicated attack helicopter. AlsoI remember reading that we were supposed to acquire EMB 314 Super Tucano to replace the OV-10s, I wonder what happened to that news.

Yes it is its being done so whats the problem i mean we have to bid and pay then wait for 1 to 5 years for the shipments buying weapons is not taking things in you local supermarket you have a process to start with so buy early



Constitution does not allow Nuclear weapons if your true filipino you should know that. And we do have a nuclear institute but its focus on nuclear energy not on weapons even though in marcos era they were also doing studies on nuke weapons but after the 1987 constitution the Philippines does not allow nuke weapons on its territory or allowed to build them but that can change if the constitution is change

A good substitute is Thermobaric weapon, the Russian ATBIP (aka Father of all Bombs) is said to replace their smaller nuclear weapons. Just locate an Abu Sayaff camp and drop it. I am not suggesting a similar bomb the Russians made but at least something that is large enough to wipe out an Abu Sayaff camp in one strike.

 

[Ayan81]

I just wished we considered the A129 Mangusta as it is a dedicated attack helicopter. AlsoI remember reading that we were supposed to acquire EMB 314 Super Tucano to replace the OV-10s, I wonder what happened to that news.



A good substitute is Thermobaric weapon, the Russian ATBIP (aka Father of all Bombs) is said to replace their smaller nuclear weapons. Just locate an Abu Sayaff camp and drop it. I am not suggesting a similar bomb the Russians made but at least something that is large enough to wipe out an Abu Sayaff camp in one strike.

Nakaka high blood , they already choose the tucano in basing the specs yet they still go for the bidding. For me IOMAX is the cause of delays for pushing its Archangel block 3 thus the DND has no choice but to move bid submissions.

 

[Cossack25A1]

Nakaka high blood , they already choose the tucano in basing the specs yet they still go for the bidding. For me IOMAX is the cause of delays for pushing its Archangel block 3 thus the DND has no choice but to move bid submissions.

I get the feeling that the biddins = kickbacks.

 

[Zero_wing]

I just wished we considered the A129 Mangusta as it is a dedicated attack helicopter. AlsoI remember reading that we were supposed to acquire EMB 314 Super Tucano to replace the OV-10s, I wonder what happened to that news.



A good substitute is Thermobaric weapon, the Russian ATBIP (aka Father of all Bombs) is said to replace their smaller nuclear weapons. Just locate an Abu Sayaff camp and drop it. I am not suggesting a similar bomb the Russians made but at least something that is large enough to wipe out an Abu Sayaff camp in one strike.

Sure if we have the money its not really the question of how and were to get weapons but do we have the cash to maintain and to buy and mass produce

Nakaka high blood , they already choose the tucano in basing the specs yet they still go for the bidding. For me IOMAX is the cause of delays for pushing its Archangel block 3 thus the DND has no choice but to move bid submissions.

Sir personally i would like the K1 or the super tacano or the OV10x if they are planing to make it or the T6 texan 2 over the Archangel

 

[mike2000]

@mike2000 ,

There are estimated to be around 150,000 Japanese Nationals (Citizens of Japan) who live , reside, or work in the Republic of the Philippines. Considering this massive number of our Nationals in the Philippines, it is part of the Mandate of the Japanese Self Defense Force to protect the Citizens of Japan from armed conflict from a foreign state. The Re-interpretation of Article 9 explicitly allows the JSDF's branches, the JMSDF, JGSDF, JASDF to be mobilized to protect Japanese Interests, including and not limited to Japanese Nationals and relatives, Japanese property, and Allied interests.

So, thus, in the event that any nation that would attack the Philippines and threaten the safety of Japanese Nationals living in the Philippines, the JSDF would be mobilized en masse and neutralize any said threat.

In addition, given the strategic interests Japan has in the Philippines, if the Government of the Philippines were to request Japanese Military Aid in such an exigency, Japan would have the right to accept and provide whatever aid was necessary to effectively eradicate said threat. Given, our coordinated effort would also be , more than likely, in conjunction with American military movements.

Well if thats the case, then Japan will also intervene in any country in the world where there is a significant Japanese presence/population/citizen like in China, South Korea, Brazil(Brazil is home to the largest Japanese population outside of Japan), U.S, Canada, Peru, Australia,France, Argentina and even the U.K? Well that will mean Japan will have to be a superr power to be able to protect its citizens military in all these countries and others.

Well, what i was really surprised about wasnt so much about the Japanese Self Defense Force official policy to protect the Citizens of Japan from armed conflict from a foreign state, since i know most coutnries have this policy in their constituion(which apart from the U.S is just a document /book and is hardly/if ever put into practice to be honest, well bar the U.S.lol), what got me surprised was mentioning that the philippines is clearly protected under Japanese Self Defense Law and they come under the Japanese defensive umbrella.lol I(like everybody) know the Philippine(just like Japan) comes under the U,S defence umbrella, never knew the philippines comes under Japans defence umbrella as well. Now that's new. Can filipinos member here confirm if they are under Japans protection/defence umbrella as well? @Zero_wing , @opruh , @Cossack25A1 , @Ayan81 , @Fsjal .

 

[Zero_wing]

Yes because we have defense cooperation agreement with Japan

 

[mike2000]

Yes because we have defense cooperation agreement with Japan

So lets say in case Philippine goes into conflict with say China, Taiwan or Vietnam in the disputed SCS islands wioth which it has overlapping claims, Japan will intervene to protect the Philippines?
I never knew that, guess we learn something new everyday.

 

[Zero_wing]

So lets say in case Philippine goes into conflict with say China, Taiwan or Vietnam in the disputed SCS islands wioth which it has overlapping claims, Japan will intervene to protect the Philippines?
I never knew that, guess we learn something new everyday.

That depends really but in theory yes as long as the attack did not orginate from us the deals of the cooperation agreement is dificult to say its say inteligence and defense materials coorperation training etc unlike the US Mutual Defense treaty which states any attack on the Philippines islands, cities, civilian ships, planes etc is an attack aganist the US and the US will respond which is very clear and its also vis versa on us as well.

 

[mike2000]

That depends really but in theory yes as long as the attack did not orginate from us the deals of the cooperation agreement is dificult to say its say inteligence and defense materials coorperation training etc unlike the US Mutual Defense treaty which states any attack on the Philippines islands, cities, civilian ships, planes etc is an attack aganist the US and the US will respond which is very clear and its also vis versa on us as well.

Yes i know in case of the U.S there's no question about that, since the U.S obviously has a mutual defence defence treaty with Philippines in which any attack on philippines will be an attack on the U.S. I was focusing more on Japan's case with the Philippines. Never knew they had any mutual defence treaty with Philippines as well. Only knew they had some defence cooperation/partnership like training/support/weapons sales etc.

 

[Zero_wing]

I was saying in theory is defense coorperation agreement but Abe was pushing for collective defense so maybe

 

[Aepsilons]

Well if thats the case, then Japan will also intervene in any country in the world where there is a significant Japanese presence/population/citizen like in China, South Korea, Brazil(Brazil is home to the largest Japanese population outside of Japan), U.S, Canada, Peru, Australia,France, Argentina and even the U.K? Well that will mean Japan will have to be a superr power to be able to protect its citizens military in all these countries and others.

In regards to Japanese nationals who have Japanese citizenship and live in the west say the United States, Canada, Britain, France, Germany, et al, there is already a pre-existing cooperative agreement with these nations (US is an ally, and most of Europe is part of Nato, which is a military partner of Japan's) in regards for the protection of our citizens there. So there is no worry on our part.

In regards to the Brazilians who have Japanese ancestry; yes there are over 1 million of them, however, many of them are 2nd or 3rd even 4th generation Japanese. They are Brazilian citizens and are thus subject to the laws of Republic of Brazil, not Japan. So our intervention there does not apply. The Collective Self Defense only applies for the protection of Japanese Nationals , meaning persons who have Japanese Citizenship, not persons who have Japanese background. An American can have Japanese ancestry, or an Australian can have Japanese ancestry, heck even a Chinese may have Japanese ancestry but they are still citizens of their primary countries first. Does that make sense, Mike-san?

Japan does actively intervene in behalf of our citizens abroad. And in regards to the Philippines, it is a special case. The Philippines is home to over 1,300 Japanese businesses that have offshored there, thus is home to the greatest number of Japanese assets in the entire ASEAN. Not only that, there are over 150,000 Japanese Citizens that live, reside, work in the Philippines and thus the Philippines clearly is included in Japan's Collective Self Defense. The Defense cooperation agreement the Philippines have with us recently cements this relationship that has been a success of Japanese-Filipino bilateral defense agreement.

I believe that there will be no serious military threat to the Philippines, aside from minor territorial differences regarding the other claimants in the SCS. Strategically, and tactically speaking, the Philippines is protected not only by the United States's MDT, but also through Japan's Collective Self Defense.

Yes i know in case of the U.S there's no question about that, since the U.S obviously has a mutual defence defence treaty with Philippines in which any attack on philippines will be an attack on the U.S. I was focusing more on Japan's case with the Philippines. Never knew they had any mutual defence treaty with Philippines as well. Only knew they had some defence cooperation/partnership like training/support/weapons sales etc.

The Chief of Staff of the Japan Ground Self Defense Force (JGSDF), General Kiyofumi Iwata, visited the Philippine Army on September 8-9, 2014. Army Chief Lt Gen Hernando DCA Iriberri welcomed Gen Iwata at Headquarters Philippine Army on Monday, September 8. He was accorded with military honors upon his arrival.

Discussed during the visit were measures on how to further improve the existing relationship between the Japan Army and Philippine Army, with the end goal of strengthening the defense cooperation between Japan and Philippines.

Yes because we have defense cooperation agreement with Japan

That is correct. The Philippines is of high strategic value for Japan , defense cooperation is seen through naval exercises, military-to-military coordination, as well as the growing Philippine Army - Japan Ground Self Defense Force cooperation plans.

So lets say in case Philippine goes into conflict with say China, Taiwan or Vietnam in the disputed SCS islands wioth which it has overlapping claims, Japan will intervene to protect the Philippines?
I never knew that, guess we learn something new everyday.

For one; Taiwan will never go to war with the Philippines. I can guarantee you that. Second, Vietnam is not as imbecilic to war with the Philippines , it would be antithetical to their strategic visage of gaining international support and courting the US-Japanese Global Alliance.

As for China; I do not think the Chinese will engage in a military confrontation with the Philippines over islets, and risk the loss of the $340 Billion Japanese-Chinese Bilateral Trade, or the loss of the $590 Billion Chinese-US bilateral trade. I doubt some minor uninhabited reefs is worth the loss to nearly $1 Trillion Dollars of trade.

That depends really but in theory yes as long as the attack did not orginate from us the deals of the cooperation agreement is dificult to say its say inteligence and defense materials coorperation training etc unlike the US Mutual Defense treaty which states any attack on the Philippines islands, cities, civilian ships, planes etc is an attack aganist the US and the US will respond which is very clear and its also vis versa on us as well.

I was saying in theory is defense coorperation agreement but Abe was pushing for collective defense so maybe

Mike and Zero_Wing,

In the event that a foreign country attacks the Philippines, launches strikes on civilian centers of the Philippines (Manila, Cebu, Davao, Puerto Princessa, CDO, Makati, Quezon, et al) and endangers the lives of the 150,000 Japanese citizens there, then the JSDF will be mobilized to protect and defend our citizens. In the event that the Philippine Government requests Japan's military intervention, Japanese Government will be obliged to defend a partner and ally.

Imagine the full mobilization of the Combined Fleet of the JMSDF with the US Navy's 7th Fleet. I doubt any nation would want to engage with such fire power. Clearly it is not worth to attack the Philippines. The cost exceeds the benefits, in regards to the attacker's vantage point.

 

[mike2000]

In regards to Japanese nationals who have Japanese citizenship and live in the west say the United States, Canada, Britain, France, Germany, et al, there is already a pre-existing cooperative agreement with these nations (US is an ally, and most of Europe is part of Nato, which is a military partner of Japan's) in regards for the protection of our citizens there. So there is no worry on our part.

In regards to the Brazilians who have Japanese ancestry; yes there are over 1 million of them, however, many of them are 2nd or 3rd even 4th generation Japanese. They are Brazilian citizens and are thus subject to the laws of Republic of Brazil, not Japan. So our intervention there does not apply. The Collective Self Defense only applies for the protection of Japanese Nationals , meaning persons who have Japanese Citizenship, not persons who have Japanese background. An American can have Japanese ancestry, or an Australian can have Japanese ancestry, heck even a Chinese may have Japanese ancestry but they are still citizens of their primary countries first. Does that make sense, Mike-san?

Japan does actively intervene in behalf of our citizens abroad. And in regards to the Philippines, it is a special case. The Philippines is home to over 1,300 Japanese businesses that have offshored there, thus is home to the greatest number of Japanese assets in the entire ASEAN. Not only that, there are over 150,000 Japanese Citizens that live, reside, work in the Philippines and thus the Philippines clearly is included in Japan's Collective Self Defense. The Defense cooperation agreement the Philippines have with us recently cements this relationship that has been a success of Japanese-Filipino bilateral defense agreement.

I believe that there will be no serious military threat to the Philippines, aside from minor territorial differences regarding the other claimants in the SCS. Strategically, and tactically speaking, the Philippines is protected not only by the United States's MDT, but also through Japan's Collective Self Defense.



The Chief of Staff of the Japan Ground Self Defense Force (JGSDF), General Kiyofumi Iwata, visited the Philippine Army on September 8-9, 2014. Army Chief Lt Gen Hernando DCA Iriberri welcomed Gen Iwata at Headquarters Philippine Army on Monday, September 8. He was accorded with military honors upon his arrival.

Discussed during the visit were measures on how to further improve the existing relationship between the Japan Army and Philippine Army, with the end goal of strengthening the defense cooperation between Japan and Philippines.

View attachment 162992



That is correct. The Philippines is of high strategic value for Japan , defense cooperation is seen through naval exercises, military-to-military coordination, as well as the growing Philippine Army - Japan Ground Self Defense Force cooperation plans.



For one; Taiwan will never go to war with the Philippines. I can guarantee you that. Second, Vietnam is not as imbecilic to war with the Philippines , it would be antithetical to their strategic visage of gaining international support and courting the US-Japanese Global Alliance.

As for China; I do not think the Chinese will engage in a military confrontation with the Philippines over islets, and risk the loss of the $340 Billion Japanese-Chinese Bilateral Trade, or the loss of the $590 Billion Chinese-US bilateral trade. I doubt some minor uninhabited reefs is worth the loss to nearly $1 Trillion Dollars of trade.






Mike and Zero_Wing,

In the event that a foreign country attacks the Philippines, launches strikes on civilian centers of the Philippines (Manila, Cebu, Davao, Puerto Princessa, CDO, Makati, Quezon, et al) and endangers the lives of the 150,000 Japanese citizens there, then the JSDF will be mobilized to protect and defend our citizens. In the event that the Philippine Government requests Japan's military intervention, Japanese Government will be obliged to defend a partner and ally.

Imagine the full mobilization of the Combined Fleet of the JMSDF with the US Navy's 7th Fleet. I doubt any nation would want to engage with such fire power. Clearly it is not worth to attack the Philippines. The cost exceeds the benefits, in regards to the attacker's vantage point.

Of course me and Zero_wing both know no country will ever launch a full scale assault/invade/attack the whole Philippines/bomb civilian centers etc. We live in the 21 st century man, there is not going to be a total war where one country tries to take over the other entirely/rule that country. That's unfeasible. What we are talking about is the islands disputes in the SCS which the Philippines, Taiwan, China, Vietnam, and Malaysia. So in the event one party takes over a filipinos island like Vietnam did a long time ago with and China recently with scarborough and Thomas shoal, will Japan intervene to protect the Philippines since you said they have a mutual defence treaty? Even the U.S didnt really intervene for some reason(which is unfortunate, since it made the Philippine to rightly question/be cautious about its defence treaty with the U.S.) . If the U.S and Japan cant officially/openly say/publish that they will protect the Philippines in case any country takes over Philippines islands in SCS then the treaty is useless. The U.S and Japan should make it clear to every country in the region that the stand by the Philppines and will do anything it takes to intervene/fight off any country who attempts to take over filipions islands. Only in doing that, will they scare off any other potential country from thinking about taking/seizing/blockading Philippines islands. Countries in the region do this to philippines because they know they are the weakest country in the region. This is not fair. Hopefully the Philippines has taken note of its defence deficiencies and is taking actions to stop this. So this defence increase is a welcome sign, though much needs to be done. Just like the Vietnamese seemed to have learned(i admire them alot for their defence/military preparedness): NEVER EXPECT ANYTHING FROM OTHERS, AND YOU WILL NEVER BE DISSAPOINTED).

As for the Japanese Defence forces protecting their citizens overseas, well last i checked, i guess there are more Japanese citizens living/working in China and South Korea than even in Philippines. So in case this citizens are threatened, will Japan intervene in these countries to protect its citizens as well? That reminds me alot of Russia protecting its citizens in Crimea. I dont think that is feasible bro. Its just s statement/official rhetoric from Japan i guess(just like i said, many countries also have this policy officially, but apart from the U.S, and recently Russia, i dont see many countries who have/can put this into practice, since its very complicated).

 

[Zero_wing]

Of course me and Zero_wing both know no country will ever launch a full scale assault/invade/attack the whole Philippines/bomb civilian centers etc. We live in the 21 st century man, there is not going to be a total war where one country tries to take over the other entirely/rule that country. That's unfeasible. What we are talking about is the islands disputes in the SCS which the Philippines, Taiwan, China, Vietnam, and Malaysia. So in the event one party takes over a filipinos island like Vietnam did a long time ago with and China recently with scarborough and Thomas shoal, will Japan intervene to protect the Philippines since you said they have a mutual defence treaty? Even the U.S didnt really intervene for some reason(which is unfortunate, since it made the Philippine to rightly question/be cautious about its defence treaty with the U.S.) . If the U.S and Japan cant officially/openly say/publish that they will protect the Philippines in case any country takes over Philippines islands in SCS then the treaty is useless. The U.S and Japan should make it clear to every country in the region that the stand by the Philppines and will do anything it takes to intervene/fight off any country who attempts to take over filipions islands. Only in doing that, will they scare off any other potential country from thinking about taking/seizing/blockading Philippines islands. Countries in the region do this to philippines because they know they are the weakest country in the region. This is not fair. Hopefully the Philippines has taken note of its defence deficiencies and is taking actions to stop this. So this defence increase is a welcome sign, though much needs to be done. Just like the Vietnamese seemed to have learned(i admire them alot for their defence/military preparedness): NEVER EXPECT ANYTHING FROM OTHERS, AND YOU WILL NEVER BE DISSAPOINTED).

As for the Japanese Defence forces protecting their citizens overseas, well last i checked, i guess there are more Japanese citizens living/working in China and South Korea than even in Philippines. So in case this citizens are threatened, will Japan intervene in these countries to protect its citizens as well? That reminds me alot of Russia protecting its citizens in Crimea. I dont think that is feasible bro. Its just s statement/official rhetoric from Japan i guess(just like i said, many countries also have this policy officially, but apart from the U.S, and recently Russia, i dont see many countries who have/can put this into practice, since its very complicated).

For America the case is thus any attack on Philippine owned ships civlian and military alone which we have both in the west Philippine Sea that for sure but about Japan i agree on the Nihonjin1051 that world would pull out trade and causing china to become the next failed state but JSDF being deployed in theory only because PM abe is still wroking on the collective defense policy and the arms export policies (mechanics elements of the agreements) so again in theory it would be possible that JSDF would be deployed and aid the Philippine Military but as for now we have to put it as theory because again Japan needs to work on the constitutional and policies for JSDF and Japan's New Defense policies but so far its joint cooperation on intel and join military excerses that much is clear so about pare Nihonjin1051 about interventions by Japan if they can clear their policies and the Art 9 issue yes but for now only in theory at best they would allow the JSDF to help evacuate Japanese nationals and droop non military suppiles to the Philippines like medicial suppiles, Food suppiles etc but as long as Japan has not solve its defense policies and constitutional problems its unlike. So mike i dont think so.

And about china attacking mainland Philippines they would attack only military targets if they attack populations centers like manila or pureto princesa those who close to military facilities like people near our airbase and naval stations like Naval Central Command in Manila which close to Roxas Bluev or Frot Bonifacio close to Bonifacio global city or Westcom HQ in Palawan the province which hold jusrisdiction of Kalayan island group (the spartlys) so yes an attack on the Philippines is possible but only near military bases and the presidencial place and the Department of national defense and the armed forces combine HQ in manila still china is known for making excessive force so it could be a total war which means all enemies are tragets so meaning large carpet bombing even civilian targets hey am s speaking in theory here but thats still a possibility.