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Petraeus Warns of Declining Public Support in Pakistan for U.S.

wat??? general musharraf might be rit or wrong. but he didnt take anyone into confidence. he made us a part of this war which most of us were opposed to. is that how one is supposed to run a country?
lets keep musharraf out of this thread
If you want to debate on this, then you can not keep the General out.
Do you understand what you are saying? Trying to say a NO to a belligerent hyperpower in face of 3000 + ciivilian deaths, something it historically hasn't shown having the stomach to digest, (read Pearl Harbour) would have brought in its FULL ire in the backdrop of a global call for reprisal.

Take another look at those videos post 9/11 wherein President Bush vouches to the international community to bring the perpetrators to book with words like "Make no mistakes"...."Either you are with us or with them..." That should convince you that Astan had it coming and Pakistan better be in the right side.
 
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Yes but you could reject the aid.The fact is America has helped us a lot during last 60 years and we should acknloedge it.The demise of Soviet Union was in our favor too.Soviet Union was extremely Anti Pakistan.Yes US Made mistakes however US never made any commitment that they will always be our babbysitter therefore we must develop our economy and reject any aid only then our relations with US will improve..It's not like Pakistan was a saint.THAT AID helped us we got weapons but THEY DID NOT FORCE US TO USE THE AID.It was our mistake that we used the aid.OTOH, I agree Drone Attacks should be stopped because Civillians are also getting killed according to David Mil who is counter insurgency expert in US and have inside info about Drone strikes.

First you guys say that America help no body but itself and than u say America has helped Pakistan, what is this.

IF America has no friends, just interests, than make a u turn and u say that we are friends, what a double talk.

personally we rather be friends and that is what all the Pakistanis thought of America in the past 60 years. But if u tell us that this is not true, than i guess Pakistanis will have to think about it.
 
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If you want to debate on this, then you can not keep the General out.
Do you understand what you are saying? Trying to say a NO to a belligerent hyperpower in face of 3000 + ciivilian deaths, something it historically hasn't shown having the stomach to digest, (read Pearl Harbour) would have brought in its FULL ire in the backdrop of a global call for reprisal.

Take another look at those videos post 9/11 wherein President Bush vouches to the international community to bring the perpetrators to book with words like "Make no mistakes"...."Either you are with us or with them..." That should convince you that Astan had it coming and Pakistan better be in the right side.

if u are suggestin US would have attacked pakistan only bec we wanted to be neutral then u r absolutely wrong.
im makin a simple point. if majority of the nation is against something then better dont do it. our national assembly was still there. musharraf could have eaily gone there and introduced a resolution. matter should have been left with national assembly lik wat turkey did when US asked for using her bases to attack iraq.
 
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If you want to debate on this, then you can not keep the General out.
Do you understand what you are saying? Trying to say a NO to a belligerent hyperpower in face of 3000 + ciivilian deaths, something it historically hasn't shown having the stomach to digest, (read Pearl Harbour) would have brought in its FULL ire in the backdrop of a global call for reprisal.

Take another look at those videos post 9/11 wherein President Bush vouches to the international community to bring the perpetrators to book with words like "Make no mistakes"...."Either you are with us or with them..." That should convince you that Astan had it coming and Pakistan better be in the right side.

But all the perpetrators were Saudis, why than Pakistan and Afghanistan has to bear the brunt of it.

If U.S. needed to catch the culprit hiding in Afghanistan,. Pakistan has helped catch many before, and could have done it again, why kill innocents.
 
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I disagree....Musharraf started war against them when they were bombing mosques, kiddnaping foriegners, bombing gas supply lines, we didnt had army operatoin against them when they were bombing mosques in karachi etc, musharraf started operation against them when taliban started getting funds from raw, mossad, and talibans were hurting pak-china frienship! Talibans says that they are enemy of USA, can u tell me how many US citizens they have killed and how many pakistani's they have killed!

well i guess we became a part of this mess when our land route was used for US supplies and our airbases for bombin afghan cities in which mostly innocent afghan muslims were killed.
wat a great muslim country we are. then we say y do afghans hate us. nice....
 
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What about the AK 47's of Chinese origin. Can we blame China also ? After all Chinese also look like Gurkhas and have an uncircumsized you know what ?

Out of curiousity can you also take some time of and tell me what type of Indian weapons including make and models have been found with TTP ?

Regards

Don't sweat it AN. Just wanted to know your response and i got it. Its an old tradition something that one cant answer better cover it up with another question.:tsk:
On a side note i have given my response on Chinese weapons and Pakistani as well to AM in that particular thread.
 
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wat??? general musharraf might be rit or wrong. but he didnt take anyone into confidence. he made us a part of this war which most of us were opposed to. is that how one is supposed to run a country?
lets keep musharraf out of this thread

i might be going offtopic here sir so excuse me as much as i like Musharraf i hate him at the same time because we join so called "WAR ON TERROR" Musharraf said in one interview that he wants to promote modern "ISLAM" what does that mean exactly ? on documantries it shows Musharraf drink alchol occesionally i think a Islam Republic of Pakistan must not run by people like him even though he was good for Pakistan's economy but there wwas nothing more than that to him we should respect our religion Islam first than be hardcore Nationalist/
 
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i might be going offtopic here sir so excuse me as much as i like Musharraf i hate him at the same time because we join so called "WAR ON TERROR" Musharraf said in one interview that he wants to promote modern "ISLAM" what does that mean exactly ? on documantries it shows Musharraf drink alchol occesionally i think a Islam Republic of Pakistan must not run by people like him even though he was good for Pakistan's economy but there wwas nothing more than that to him we should respect our religion Islam first than be hardcore Nationalist/

So who is suppose to run Pakistan, do we need to learn from some one who has an Afghan flag in his country corner. Seriously are you a Pakistani, or some wanna be from afghanistan.
 
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Don't sweat it AN. Just wanted to know your response and i got it. Its an old tradition something that one cant answer better cover it up with another question.:tsk:
On a side note i have given my response on Chinese weapons and Pakistani as well to AM in that particular thread.

I see you have tried a vague reply to avoid the question. What is are the makes and models of the Indian Arms seized. After all you have killed 1500 militants by now so this information must be easy to come by. Don't forget to provide a source.

Regards
 
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I see you have tried a vague reply to avoid the question. What is are the makes and models of the Indian Arms seized. After all you have killed 1500 militants by now so this information must be easy to come by. Don't forget to provide a source.

Regards

Before accusing me of vague reply, better look in the mirror. Try reading this:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistans-war/27740-indian-us-weapons-swat.html

Also this:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistans-war/27598-indians-americans-weapons-used-tehreek-e-taliban-terriost.html
 
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The first link leads to a Dawn Article that simply states that Stolen Weapons from Afghanistan are being used by Taliban Terrorists in Pakistan.

The second link also Instates that US weapons supplied to Taliban in the Anti Russian era are being used......give us a link that says Indian weapons are used and prove it. Waiting....:coffee:
 
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The first link leads to a Dawn Article that simply states that Stolen Weapons from Afghanistan are being used by Taliban Terrorists in Pakistan.

The second link also Instates that US weapons supplied to Taliban in the Anti Russian era are being used......give us a link that says Indian weapons are used and prove it. Waiting....:coffee:

From the article. I have highlighted the parts.

Briefing reporters about the progress of operation Rahe Rast, military spokesman Major General Athar Abbas yesterday revealed the extent of foreign support that the TTP terrorists are getting from Afghanistan. Large caches of weapons of US and INDIAN origin have been found as the security forces completely secure control of Mingora city, destroying various training centres of terrorists and killing important militant commanders, the military said.


The Americans have their excuses in order – Earlier this year it was revealed that over 200,000 US weapons – including assault rifles and grenade launchers – are ‘missing’ from the US army’s inventory in Afghanistan. The US army is unable to provide serial numbers for a large number of the missing weapons and no records have been maintained for the location or disposition for the rest.

The Pakistan Army, quite rightly has told the Americans to stop worrying about Pakistan’s nuclear weapons and start worrying about the weapons ‘lost’ in Afghanistan.

Coming to the issue of Indian made weapons found in Swat – India claims its consulates in Afghanistan only issue visas for Afghan tourists to India and runs scholarship programmes for Afghan students. The Indians also claim their presence in Afghanistan is limited to reconstruction and aid efforts.


Here is what Christine Fair of RAND corporation had to say about India’s actual operation in Afghanistan and Iran:

“I think it would be a mistake to completely disregard Pakistan’s regional perceptions due to doubts about Indian competence in executing covert operations. That misses the point entirely. And I think it is unfair to dismiss the notion that Pakistan’s apprehensions about Afghanistan stem in part from its security competition with India. Having visited the Indian mission in Zahedan, Iran, I can assure you they are not issuing visas as the main activity! Moreover, India has run operations from its mission in Mazar (through which it supported the Northern Alliance) and is likely doing so from the other consulates it has reopened in Jalalabad and Qandahar along the border. Indian officials have told me privately that they are pumping money into Baluchistan. Kabul has encouraged India to engage in provocative activities such as using the Border Roads Organization to build sensitive parts of the Ring Road and use the Indo-Tibetan police force for security. It is also building schools on a sensitive part of the border in Kunar–across from Bajaur. Kabul’s motivations for encouraging these activities are as obvious as India’s interest in engaging in them. Even if by some act of miraculous diplomacy the territorial issues were to be resolved, Pakistan would remain an insecure state. Given the realities of the subcontinent (e.g., India’s rise and its more effective foreign relations with all of Pakistan’s near and far neighbors), these fears are bound to grow, not lessen. This suggests that without some means of compelling Pakistan to abandon its reliance upon militancy, it will become ever more interested in using it — and the militants will likely continue to proliferate beyond Pakistan’s control.”

The Foreign Policy magazine also recently confirmed the Indians were neck deep in supporting the TTP in Pakistan:

While the U.S. media has frequently reported on Pakistani ties to jihadi elements launching attacks in Afghanistan, it has less often mentioned that India supports insurgent forces attacking Pakistan. “The Indians are up to their necks in supporting the Taliban against the Pakistani government in Afghanistan and Pakistan,” a former intelligence official who served in both countries said. “The same anti-Pakistani forces in Afghanistan also shooting at American soldiers are getting support from India. India should close its diplomatic establishments in Afghanistan and get the Christ out of there.”

Wounded Pakistani Soldiers interviewed have recalled the stiff resistance they have faced while attempting to flush out terrorists armed with sophisticated weapons in Swat.

“They are well-equipped, they have mortars, they have rockets, sniper rifles and every type of sophisticated weapon,” says one Lt. Zaigham.“I am certain that foreign elements are behind these militants. Can I ask something very simple — who are their sponsors? What are their sources of funding? Who runs their logistics?”

Pakistan has substantial evidence and statements recorded by captured terrorists that confirm the involvement of Indian intelligence agencies in sponsoring terrorism in Pakistan from Afghan soil.

Even some Afghan officials have confirmed that India is using Afghanistan to stir trouble in Pakistan.

“India is using Afghan soil to destabilize Pakistan and Afghan security agencies are unable to stop Indian intervention due to absence of centralized government mechanism”, said Afghan Government’s Advisor, Ehsanullah Aryanzai on sidelines of Pak-Afgan Parliamentary Jirga at a local hotel on April 2nd, 2009.

The Lahore Police Commissioner Khusro Pervez has also said earlier today that Pakistan had unearthed evidence of a commute in Afghanistan a year and a half ago between members of Indian, Afghan and Israeli intelligence agencies.

‘I have first hand knowledge of captured terrorists trained by Indian nationals in Afghanistan, who then crossed over and carried out attacks in Pakistan. The failed kidnap attempt on Sri Lankan cricketers earlier this year was carried out by militants working directly for Indian and Israeli intelligence agencies’, Khusro added.

Reports have also confirmed that suspects of the attack on Sri Lankan cricketers were in the ISI building at the time of the blast on May 27th.

It has been blatantly obvious to Pakistan Army and intelligence agencies that the Indians are up to their necks in supporting terrorism in Pakistan. Now that Indian made weapons have been found in Swat, will the civilian government take up the matter on a diplomatic level?
 
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The link in the first article from Dawn simply refuses to open all I could read was the information posted by the poster.... Do you have the link or can you please repair the link for me......

The article you posted above is a simple copy and paste from an anti India weblog........so it simply has no credibility.....Please provide link from a Newspaper or a Magazine......that is either Published in Pakistan or India or any part of the world....
 
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I really pity your lack of knowledge. Let me spell out my question again

WHAT MODELS AND MAKE OF INDIAN WEAPONS WERE SEIZED FROM THE 1000 ODD TALIBANIS KILLED TILL NOW IN THE PRESENT OPS ONLY

Incase you are going to cover - up your shallow skill of debate by printing links of a blog on PDF i suggest your read the articles yourself or get some help from some senior members here so that your shallowness of knowledge is covered up. My question is in bold and your suggested reply ( to avoid strains to the sparse grey matter) can be as below

Model : SLR / INSAS
Calibre : 7.62 / 5.56 mm
Seized : SWAT
Neutral Link : BBC - Homepage

Regards

:coffee:
 
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Even if this indian consultates and sponsoring terrorism etc is true than also america can do a little to back off india as its diplomatic leaders are under pressure to make india their ally as it is an emerging power and an alliance with it could prove a good deal in future as bad relations with india can halt americas expansion of military bases in asian waters where india as a foe can put up tough resistance. Also if india and china are both america's foes that also will be damaging so from that prospective keeping an alliance with one of the future big powers is necessary in which alliance with india looks more likely.
 
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