Peshawar Massacre - TTP kills hundreds of school kids (Avoid graphic pics/vids)

[SQ8]

I have been trying to warn all here of the rising percentages of these extremists into a majority for quite some time now, with all the consequent dangers. Your estimates are still too low, sadly.

Urm.. I dont think you can go 6 out of 5.. since the angels on our shoulders dont count

 

[OTTOMAN]

Per some, the terrorists asked the hapless children whether they were from fauji familes and when the innocent kids answered in the affirmative, they were shot. After that it seems they killed every child they could get to.

Who knew that instead of the little boy missing his father, it would be the fathers and the mothers missing their little ones. Inna lillahi wa inna alaihi rajaoun.

Its clear now that prime target was the kids of army personals... this automatically narrow down to the hate crime, resulting in some recent incidence...lately Asim Bajwa has congratulated the hockey players and to me this is a fallout of same.

Hope soon terrorist id would be available and be made public, clearing some dust.

 

[Secur]

Wont that have any kind of impact in the coming years?

What do you want me to do? Pass all blame on outside forces and assuage my people of all guilt? Why the hell on earth should I point fingers outside at Afghanistan or India, when its my people who are pathetically following, supporting and acting as apologists for these scumbags? Why should I ask for airstrikes in Kunar/Nooristan when the terror Madarsas are deep within the mainland? This needs to be recitifed first, before we start blaming others.

Honestly, There was this interview on Samaa TV.. and this Pathan guy came up screaming and complaining of how he is called for extortion from Afghanistan.. and he screamed "Tang aachuke hain Pakistan se".. That is the only sentiment one has at the end of the day.

What else can anyone say? To be honest, all the sweet talk of the past Pakistani glory of the 60's and future bringing any hope now seem to be worthless.

 

[VCheng]

Urm.. I dont think you can go 6 out of 5.. since the angels on our shoulders dont count

I was referring to the first few figures that you said, not the very last one.

 

[SQ8]

@Oscar , I doubt your characterization. It applies to a small part of the population - if a large chunk (or even a "signifiant majority") where prepared to spill blood over religion, Pakistan simply wouldn't exist today. Neither is this level of religious over-zealousness compatible with our generally secular politics (PTI, PML-N, PPP, MQM, etc are all secular parties).

What shocks us most about these attacks is their barbarism; the fact somebody can be prepared to kill a child in cold blood. But not one child here, but dozens. It is our humanity that cries out against this. It exists within the vast majority of Pakistanis too: to support such acts outright requires you to be, in the medical sense of the word, a psychopath.

The vast number I talk about, is not going to do it today.. its the number that is able to be convinced to do so.

 

[Norwegian]

Boring thread. Even in this crucial discussion we Pakistanis are not United as One Nation. What a waste of a so-called Muslim nation of 200 million people!

 

[LeGenD]

Where i said demolish it? I said government should take all mosques and madaras in their own Ownership, What do you expect from Matric fail Mullahs. I am not saying all are uneducated, but most of them are. People which have 5 or 10 children, they just throw them in madras because they can't fulfill their basic needs. This is culture here from decades.

Good. You are getting the issue to some extent now. But this is just a part of the whole equation.

Pakistan was supposed to become a genuine Islamic society. Unfortunately, it became addicted to worldly obsessions (materialism), secularism, corruption, fanatical indoctrination and ended-up becoming a highly messed-up society which is split on ideological, political and individualistic levels.

Enlightened Islamic scholars coupled with committed religious leadership can transform Pakistan into an enlightened Islamic society. But this seems to be idealistic objective at present.

What can you expect from a country which spends only 2% of GDP on education, promotes corruption and is obsessed with individualism and materialism?

 

[Dubious]

Read the account by a SSG officer posted here, most of the time the locals were part and participle of a terror economy.. operating criminal networks in lieu of the terrorists.

And exactly how many times were they themselves hostages? Were they not threatened not to open their mouths?

Were they not "protecting" their own by keeping silent? I am not supporting the cause but not everything is black or white and not everyone deserves to die for doing a wrong under pressure!

 

[Kashmiri Nationalist]

I have another Pakistani complex in mind, quick conclusions based on insufficient information. The issue with merits and demerits of a person have LITTLE do with a persons "personal" flaws. It has to do with capability. We take Machiavelli as an example of brilliant ideas for subterfuge regardless of the morality behind it, Why? because for all his mistakes, there is little doubting the capability Machiavelli had as a political and diplomatic advisor. Hence you would take his word as having some weight in credibility. When there is little proof for credibility, the word itself dies down in its level.

Hence your messianic complex conclusion would have been more apt on me if Musharraf had still been generally capable much as Jinnah was. The proof is in the pudding, Musharraf was a bad strategist, a bad analyst.. and a mediocre officer at best. His only call to fame was his commando background, which made him foolhardy.. not hardly a fool.

Little to do with a person's personal flaws? Then why highlight Ayub's racism and delusions? Also I find it funny that you talk about the de/merits of a person then claim they have nothing to do with their personal flaws. Individuals are flawed, whether for the ideas they hold, or the folly of their actions.

Machiavelli? Really? A man who's claim to fame is a text that some hold that he himself wrote as a piece of satire. Commonly held up in common circles as a "political genius", yet subject to numerous criticisms for a shoddy political philosophy, with little originality. He was also, much like Musharraf, rather mediocre in performance. There is some good in the man, but again, pretending that he was a political genuis and the holy grail falls back to the messianic point.

Say what you want about the man, but there is some irony in your analysis. In your portrayal of Musharaff as inept, you forget he rose up through the ranks not only to the PA's highest office, but the nation's. Perhaps he was an embodiment in part atleast for the very subterfuge you praise Machiavelli for.

On Jinnah, the man was great and somebody I admire. But he also made great blunders and his inability to spell out a coherent ideology/framework for the nation is one of the reasons why Pakistan is at the dangerous territory it is today in.

 

[iPhone]

Man, I cried today, and cried. I probably weeped. We have endured many tragedies in Pakistan and have debated and came online to condemn and offer condolences. Each tragedy and death struck and went and I braved it in my heart.

But it's the first time that I'm not able to handle something. I can't find it in my heart to deal with this tragedy. My heart is somber and my eyes are wet. I can't describe how I feel. Those little innocent children. ..

 

[Finer]

Not it isnt. The only good Taliban is a dead Taliban. Supporting the Taliban/TTP/ISIS/Hizb-ut-tahrir will get you banned.

I don't support anyone. Given my hatred for Taliban should be made clear, but it is important to understand the enemy before we blindly attack that can backfire terribly.

Understanding the situation is the key to prevent this in the future.

 

[Norwegian]

This is just another Russian Beslan revisited in Pakistan this year. In both cases, terrorists were Islamist nutjobs and victims, innocent schoolchildren. Endgoals were of course political which were never achievable by non-violent means.

 

[SQ8]

What do you want me to do? Pass all blame on outside forces and assuage my people of all guilt? Why the hell on earth should I point fingers outside at Afghanistan or India, when its my people who are pathetically following, supporting and acting as apologists for these scumbags? Why should I ask for airstrikes in Kunar/Nooristan when the terror Madarsas are deep within the mainland? This needs to be recitifed first, before we start blaming others.



What else can anyone say? To be honest, all the sweet talk of the past Pakistani glory of the 60's and future bringing any hope now seem to be worthless.

Oh heaven forbid. Are you actually suggesting that the Pounjab could have extremists in it? All they seem to care for is Tikkas and Murgh Cholas.. when did you hear of extremists acts like Christians being Burnt or Qadiyanis being killed?
That all happens in the the Northwest, its dem damn Pattons.. Never in the Pounjab.

Its that attitude, that whole idea of .. Et Tu Brutus?.. that took Caesar too long to realize.. and the Pakistanis who have not been effected by terror to do so.

I don't support anyone. Given my hatred for Taliban should be made clear, but it is important to understand the enemy before we blindly attack that can backfire terribly.

Understanding the situation is the key to prevent this in the future.

Off course not, cant waste resources on pointless lashing out. It has to be precise and really hurt them where their entire organization crumbles.

 

[Meengla]

There is a lot of breast beating going around. Some facts to consider, in line with what @Kashmiri Nationalist is saying:

Pakistan started supporting the 'Mujahideens' from ZAB's time in mid/late 70's. Pakistan started supporting Kashmiri 'Freedom Fighters' from late 80s. But, until a few years after 9/11, the only act of suicide bombing in Pakistan was by an Egyptian and that too against American targets. Why so? What go unleashed so suddenly and so powerfully in a nation of 150+ million to cause such a carnage?

I don't have answers--but I do NOT believe the majority has radicalized. Perhaps if Pakistan was a country of a few millions then that might have been possible.

 

[Finer]

That's what you think..... keep drinking that kool-aid and all will be dandy!

It is fact. Unfortunately, TTP is provided with safe haven in Afghanistan.