Penn Judge: Muslims Allowed to Attack People for Insulting Mohammad

[Rusty]

If an innocent baby is killed by a virus, is that God's test?

Why are blacks dying more than whites even though blacks are more religious? Why is God richly rewarding infidels?

American Christian neocons say that loving God makes them rich. So yes, Christianity says that if you love God, you will be rich. So much for the devoutly Christian blacks, Mexicans and Filipinos.

I was never spanked or hit as a child.

Death is part of life, some people have it better then others and there in lies the test.

I can only speak of Islam, if you have a problem with Christianity or anyone else, take it up with them.
As a Muslim I see that Islam has given us everything we need to succeed. Islam tells us to improve our condition, it tells us to seek knowledge, it tells us how to govern properly, how to run our economy, etc etc.
The reason Muslim countries are in bad shape is because we don't have a single Muslim country that follows Islamic ideals.
Look at the corruption in Muslim countries, Most of our leaders have sold us out for american dollars.
And so we are failing because we are getting farther and farther from Islam.

---------- Post added at 02:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:19 PM ----------

interesting.. mongols started declining in 1200 A.D. ... Abbasid Caliphatefollowed by the ottomans were in power from roughly 750 to 1913.... how did mongols effect you guys then? on the other side you also had a thriving islamic mughal empire and afghan kings?

The biggest thing Mongols did was destroy our unity and knowledge. The sacking of Baghdad was the single worst event in our history. They destroyed the worlds largest collection of knowledge by burning all the books. They destroyed the economy and they even filled in irrigation ditches. What that did was basically dissolve the central power base and allowed fragmentation. Basically it was the end of our golden age.

 

[AUz]

There lies the difference between us and you: The we understand that not every criticisms will be taken as 'legitimate' when history have shown the opposite, that legitimate criticisms are usually taken as 'provocation' or 'insult' or 'imposition' of alternate beliefs.

So the best thing to do is to simply draw the line at physical responses, meaning the law will protect even the worst of insults. Your feelings are not important to the laws, your body is. The law will protect someone's free speech, even the kind that does not educate, edify, enlighten, or even entertain, and the law will protect everyone's bodies from assault. Saying that the Christian God does not exist is pretty much saying Allah does not exist, and what can worse an insult against a deity, and the belief system that he supposedly set down for man, than to say he does not exist?

If Allah does not exist, then everything the muslims do, from praying five times a day to fasting during Ramadan, are pointless, and that make your lives -- equally pointless. In that, the mere existence of the atheist is insulting enough for all three Abrahamic religions. Insulting and provocative, you think? So if you can tolerate the existence of the atheist, you should be strong enough in your faith to tolerate insults to your prophet and your god.

But yes, you are afraid of criticism. Terrified of it, even.

---------- Post added at 10:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:26 PM ----------


No, you will not.

mmmm not really. It is the right of everyone to believe whatever you want. Be Atheist , Christian or Sikh or whatever. There's no offense in it. But throwing insults at others' "holy people" is wrong because you KNOW that the other guy would get hurt/upset over this. This is the difference between provocation and just beliefs. We all can discuss things and disagree with each other..but throwing insults 'just to upset the other guy' is VERY wrong , even by the standards of secular morality. We religious people know about faith. If you come up to me and said "Hey , I don't believe Muhammad to be a prophet" ...I shall take absolutely NO offense because its MY 'faith' that Muhammad was a prophet and not yours...but if you come up to me and say "Hey your Muhammad was a fuckin* pedo , he was a rapist , terrorist blah blah" then this IS wrong because the speaker KNOWS that his words will hurt the other guy. Even if you believe the above things , there is a way to discuss them. You can come up and say "Hey man , don't take offense but why did your prophet marry a child? Isn't a bad thing? Why your prophet fought wars? etc etc " and in this way , we can discuss all these things and I , or any other sane adult for that matter , will never take any "offense" in that. You know what I'm saying? ...But you yourself know Gambit that many people insult others' beliefs on purpose and sometimes , they DO go over the top which lands them in the category of "provocative others" ...

Anyways , have a good day.

 

[protest]

When someone insults Islam, Pakistanis sound more righteous than god himself. But we often see them slurring abuses like 'cow piss drinker' at Hindus on this forum. They also abuse India for not allowing bovine slaughtering. For all the talk about respecting one's beliefs, shouldn't Pakistanis also respect Hindus beliefs about sacred cow. No, they are quite happy being hypocrites. In the present age where people ask for logic behind the thinking, Islamists should grow thick skin.

---------- Post added at 11:09 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:07 AM ----------

mmmm not really. It is the right of everyone to believe whatever you want. Be Atheist , Christian or Sikh or whatever. There's no offense in it. But throwing insults at others' "holy people" is wrong because you KNOW that the other guy would get hurt/upset over this. This is the difference between provocation and just beliefs. We all can discuss things and disagree with each other..but throwing insults 'just to upset the other guy' is VERY wrong , even by the standards of secular morality. We religious people know about faith. If you come up to me and said "Hey , I don't believe Muhammad to be a prophet" ...I shall take absolutely NO offense because its MY 'faith' that Muhammad was a prophet and not yours...but if you come up to me and say "Hey your Muhammad was a fuckin* pedo , he was a rapist , terrorist blah blah" then this IS wrong because the speaker KNOWS that his words will hurt the other guy. Even if you believe the above things , there is a way to discuss them. You can come up and say "Hey man , don't take offense but why did your prophet marry a child? Isn't a bad thing? Why your prophet fought wars? etc etc " and in this way , we can discuss all these things and I , or any other sane adult for that matter , will never take any "offense" in that. You know what I'm saying? ...But you yourself know Gambit that many people insult others' beliefs on purpose and sometimes , they DO go over the top which lands them in the category of "provocative others" ...

Anyways , have a good day.

So if some one abuses your religion, your solution is to physically abuse him. Great. If all the religions in the world follow the same, there would be constant wars among us.

 

[Rusty]

When someone insults Islam, Pakistanis sound more righteous than god himself. But we often see them slurring abuses like 'cow piss drinker' at Hindus on this forum. They also abuse India for not allowing bovine slaughtering. For all the talk about respecting one's beliefs, shouldn't Pakistanis also respect Hindus beliefs about sacred cow. No, they are quite happy being hypocrites. In the present age where people ask for logic behind the thinking, Islamists should grow thick skin.

---------- Post added at 11:09 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:07 AM ----------



So if some one abuses your religion, your solution is to physically abuse him. Great. If all the religions in the world follow the same, there would be constant wars among us.

I'v never seen anyone call Indians "cow piss drinkers" on this forum, I have seen it on YouTube, but not this forum. Besides, that's not really an insult against Hinduism, since it is a practice in some parts of India. As for the cow slaughter bit, well India needs to make up their mind. Are the secular or not? Indians here cannot keep saying "oh look how great and secular democracy we are" and then send people to jail for 7 years for eating beef. I personally think that is a valid criticism of modern India, it is not a slam against Hindus.

I think you would have a case if Muslims here were insulting Siva, or Vishnu, or any other Hindu gods. But I have no seen a single case of that here, so your argument is really invalid.

 

[ashokdeiva]

I'v never seen anyone call Indians "cow piss drinkers" on this forum, I have seen it on YouTube, but not this forum. Besides, that's not really an insult against Hinduism, since it is a practice in some parts of India. As for the cow slaughter bit, well India needs to make up their mind. Are the secular or not? Indians here cannot keep saying "oh look how great and secular democracy we are" and then send people to jail for 7 years for eating beef. I personally think that is a valid criticism of modern India, it is not a slam against Hindus.

I think you would have a case if Muslims here were insulting Siva, or Vishnu, or any other Hindu gods. But I have no seen a single case of that here, so your argument is really invalid.

i am really surprized to see the bolded part. No constitutional provision of INDIA or that of the INDIAN PEENAL CODE tells about jailing people for eating Beef. if that is the case almost 35% of the INDIAN population has be in the prison for eating beef.

 

[Bang Galore]

, As for the cow slaughter bit, well India needs to make up their mind. Are the secular or not? Indians here cannot keep saying "oh look how great and secular democracy we are" and then send people to jail for 7 years for eating beef. I personally think that is a valid criticism of modern India, it is not a slam against Hindus.

Silly argument. It is not only for killing & eating a cow that you can go to jail. There are many animals which enjoy that protection. Cow (in some states) is simply one more animal enjoying that protection. Right to eat beef/pig/dog/bear/tiger/deer is not a fundamental right. Restrictions cannot be a reflection on secularism as practiced by India. If that were the case, Muslim person laws must be first thrown out since using the same argument, they contravene a state's secularism.

 

[Black Widow]

Rioting, arsenal, stone pelting, assault is something most common in Muslims protest/demonstration.


I think Many Muslims don't understand there religion. And I am appalled to see that many PDF members are defending it. Under no circumstances any one is allowed to attack ppl for "so called blasphemy". I have seen American shows (Simpson and FAmily guy) mocking jew/cristian/hindu god, But I have never heard Vatican/Israel/India threatening killing the producers.


While we saw how danish cartoonist was threaten. Islam is misunderstood by its followers.

 

[Mav3rick]

And you guess wrong...

Piss Christ - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


No one rioted after Piss Christ came on display.

We would have protested that as well...Guess why?? Because Jesus is our beloved and respected prophet too! And nobody has the right to ridicule any Prophet of any religion!

---------- Post added at 12:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:32 PM ----------

How predictable...But I will say that am glad we are not like the muslims in this regard.

Unfortunately for you, you are not like the Muslims in many regards. A feat that your absurdness has achieved with your indifference to religion and prophets, for which you will answer....as per our belief and so will we.

 

[Mav3rick]

thats the reason y muslims are NOT respected in general society....riots is the first option chosen by them whereas for others its the last option

protesting strongly shud not be confused with rioting

Is that what you hindus do....protest when your religion is ridiculed by anyone?

 

[Mav3rick]

Thanks much, gents, for further convincing non-muslims that muslims have no tolerance for criticisms. Islam is a religion of peace and we will kill you to prove it.

Perhaps you need to understand that your ignorance has no bounds. There is a massive difference b/w criticism and ridicule! You may accept ridicule of your family, sister, mother, daughter, prophet etc., however I will not. Quite simply I believe that you or anyone else does not have the right to ridicule anyone else especially on someone's religious belief.

Islam is indeed a religion of peace and if I was such a devout Muslim I would most certainly smile and walk away but as humans we are weak and in that weakness we react. Muslim countries were the cornerstone of education, literacy and power once....go and read how those Muslim countries treated their subjects and then compare the treatment being imposed openly on Muslims in your country. Every Muslim today, to you, is a potential terrorist and he/she must prove his/her innocence despite facts that you people have committed more criminal acts and acts of terrorism around the world then the whole world combined!

 

[Black Widow]

We would have protested that as well...Guess why?? Because Jesus is our beloved and respected prophet too! And nobody has the right to ridicule any Prophet of any religion!

Thats true, no one has right to ridicule any religion, But at the same time, Protest must not turn into arsenal,riots,Stone pelting, Murder, rape or threat to murder. Do you agree with that?????

Unfortunately for you, you are not like the Muslims in many regards. A feat that your absurdness has achieved with your indifference to religion and prophets, for which you will answer....as per our belief and so will we.

Is that what you hindus do....protest when your religion is ridiculed by anyone?

Yes Peaceful Protest is our right.

Perhaps you need to understand that your ignorance has no bounds. There is a massive difference b/w criticism and ridicule! You may accept ridicule of your family, sister, mother, daughter, prophet etc., however I will not. Quite simply I believe that you or anyone else does not have the right to ridicule anyone else especially on someone's religious belief.

Don't get emotional. And moreover how to differentiate between ridicule and criticism??? Criticism is widely believed as ridicule and blasphemy by Islamic followers.

Islam is indeed a religion of peace and if I was such a devout Muslim I would most certainly smile and walk away but as humans we are weak and in that weakness we react. Muslim countries were the cornerstone of education, literacy and power once....go and read how those Muslim countries treated their subjects and then compare the treatment being imposed openly on Muslims in your country. Every Muslim today, to you, is a potential terrorist and he/she must prove his/her innocence despite facts that you people have committed more criminal acts and acts of terrorism around the world then the whole world combined!

Why it is always muslims who react? as mentioned in first page the atheists were criticizing Islam and Cristianity on the same banner, why only Islamic follower reacted???

Muslims are treated well in non Muslim country (As shown by there migration rate). Not every muslim is potential threat.

 

[Rusty]

Silly argument. It is not only for killing & eating a cow that you can go to jail. There are many animals which enjoy that protection. Cow (in some states) is simply one more animal enjoying that protection. Right to eat beef/pig/dog/bear/tiger/deer is not a fundamental right. Restrictions cannot be a reflection on secularism as practiced by India. If that were the case, Muslim person laws must be first thrown out since using the same argument, they contravene a state's secularism.

If it's silly to say that sending people to jail for eating cows, then I don't even want to know what a non silly argument would be. Laws against catching and eating wild life is understandable, if everyone ate the tigers, they would go extinct.
Cows, however are not wild life, they are domestic animals and in no danger of going extinct. You want to play this off as conservation issue, and that's just silly.
The fact is, the reason cow eating ban was put into place was to appease the Hindus and this appeasement negatively affects all the other minorities. secularism doesn't give any religion extra influence, but here in India Hinduism clearly has more influence then it should. So once again, please decide if you are secular or not.

But all of this is getting off the initial point.
since you guys did not contest my initial point, I can only assume that you agree with me.

 

[husn25]

Rioting, arsenal, stone pelting, assault is something most common in Muslims protest/demonstration.


I think Many Muslims don't understand there religion. And I am appalled to see that many PDF members are defending it. Under no circumstances any one is allowed to attack ppl for "so called blasphemy". I have seen American shows (Simpson and FAmily guy) mocking jew/cristian/hindu god, But I have never heard Vatican/Israel/India threatening killing the producers.


While we saw how danish cartoonist was threaten. Islam is misunderstood by its followers.

Islam is not misunderstood by its followers. It is simply misunderstood by people belonging to other religions. They want mulims to follow ISLAM just as they follow their own religion. Keeping religion at the bottom of the list and then teaching others to follow religion that way. Muslims take their religion very seriously. According to ISLAM respecting and loving our Prophet (Peace Be Upon Him) the most is essential part of faith. If someone abuse my parents or your parents then are we going to sit and listen? If yes then there is no room left to talk about this issue at all and if no then try to understand that the respect and love for our Prophet (Peace Be Upon Him) in our heart and life is more than any loved one in our family. Hope this help you understand why this becomes a big issue.

 

[Black Widow]

Islam is not misunderstood by its followers. It is simply misunderstood by people belonging to other religions. They want mulims to follow ISLAM just as they follow their own religion. Keeping religion at the bottom of the list and then teaching others to follow religion that way. Muslims take their religion very seriously. According to ISLAM respecting and loving our Prophet (Peace Be Upon Him) the most is essential part of faith. If someone abuse my parents or your parents then are we going to sit and listen? If yes then there is no room left to talk about this issue at all and if no then try to understand that the respect and love for our Prophet (Peace Be Upon Him) in our heart and life is more than any loved one in our family. Hope this help you understand why this becomes a big issue.

But that again don't justify violence and riots.. Land of laws are there to punish offenders.

Your logic sounds good, I hope Muslims would have kept same emotions when they destroyed many idol of pagans and boudh's. Laws can see only person not religion.

 

[Bang Galore]

If it's silly to say that sending people to jail for eating cows, then I don't even want to know what a non silly argument would be. Laws against catching and eating wild life is understandable, if everyone ate the tigers, they would go extinct.
Cows, however are not wild life, they are domestic animals and in no danger of going extinct. You want to play this off as conservation issue, and that's just silly.
The fact is, the reason cow eating ban was put into place was to appease the Hindus and this appeasement negatively affects all the other minorities. secularism doesn't give any religion extra influence, but here in India Hinduism clearly has more influence then it should. So once again, please decide if you are secular or not.

But all of this is getting off the initial point.
since you guys did not contest my initial point, I can only assume that you agree with me.

You continue to state a twisted argument. Technically, tigers can be farmed, dogs are not endangered, yet states, on cultural sensitivity grounds place restrictions on consumption of that meat. That does not mean it is somehow against secularism. Taking another example, Salman Rushdie's book 'Satanic Verses" was banned in India. Why, since it certainly didn't offend Hindu sentiments. Why should Hindus be stopped from reading a book that is in no way offensive to them? Why do Muslims protest the cartoons in Denmark because surely what non-Muslims do is not within the realm of Islam's boundaries, is it? So, you can ask non-muslims to be respectful of Muslim sentiments in secular countries but the same should not be expected for Hindu sentiments?

Weird logic this.