Pastor Burnson the innocent American priest in Turkey

[Trango Towers]

So they say Pastor Andrew Burnson is innocent but is he really innocent? If he is innocent what was he doing in Iraq trying to topple Saddam regime.
Brunson is a CIA operative involved in many regime changes and has been doing this for a long time. He is 100% guilty for attempting coup in Turkey.

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Turks should have just decapitated him...the world should learn.

 

[BHarwana]

Turks should have just decapitated him...the world should learn.

It is their own decision what to do with him bro and it is their decision how handle him under their own law. I think USA is crying because pastor has started to talk. Otherwise USA would have waited for court's decision before making it an issue.

 

[Trango Towers]

It is their own decision what to do with him bro and it is their decision how handle him under their own law. I think USA is crying because pastor has started to talk. Otherwise USA would have waited for court's decision before making it an issue.

I agree...just that we should have shot Raymond Davis dead too

 

[Kiryu]

Another way of interpreting that is that Erdogan was planning to arrest those 100,000 anyway.
Planning to convict them without proof of anything because they were supporters of his political adversary.
When the Military realized that noone would get a fair trial, they started the coup without any real planning. It is a theory worth investigating, at least.

You tell others not to make claims without proof then you make a claim like that! Is there any proof the military has every preempted a police operation on the basis of the suspects not getting a fair trial? Why would anyone in the military even care? Their concerns are to protect the country not ensuring an insidious religious cult gets a fair trial.
For them to have carried out a very dangerous and extremely illegal act like overthrowing a civilian government means those personnel in the military responsible were strongly attached, emotionally to take action. Since it's not because of concerns over a fair trial the only feasible reason is sympathies towards that "cause". Of course there will be opportunists as well but opportunists take advantage of events not lead them. Your theory only supports the argument that Gulenists within the military were responsible.

 

[Kiryu]

Turks should have just decapitated him...the world should learn.

Turkey doesn't have the death penalty and even if it did that would be stupid idea.
Turkey should take a leaf out of Russia's book in dealing with foreign intelligence assets. It's better just to frustrate them and make their work impossible to carry out. It's clear Turkey knew about Brunson for some time now considering the size of the dossier on him. Every time he leaves the house he should be harassed by local cops. Which means loads of parking tickets, stop and searches, follow him every time he goes out for a drive. Let him know we know who he is and prevent him from being a useful asset. Of course he would eventually just get replaced by another asset, but that takes time and money and eats into their budget. It's very low key but very effective and saves all the BS we're seeing now.

 

[Trango Towers]

Turkey doesn't have the death penalty and even if it did that would be stupid idea.
Turkey should take a leaf out of Russia's book in dealing with foreign intelligence assets. It's better just to frustrate them and make their work impossible to carry out. It's clear Turkey knew about Brunson for some time now considering the size of the dossier on him. Every time he leaves the house he should be harassed by local cops. Which means loads of parking tickets, stop and searches, follow him every time he goes out for a drive. Let him know we know who he is and prevent him from being a useful asset. Of course he would eventually just get replaced by another asset, but that takes time and money and eats into their budget. It's very low key but very effective and saves all the BS we're seeing now.

And all that vs a bullet

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

You tell others not to make claims without proof then you make a claim like that! Is there any proof the military has every preempted a police operation on the basis of the suspects not getting a fair trial? Why would anyone in the military even care? Their concerns are to protect the country not ensuring an insidious religious cult gets a fair trial.
For them to have carried out a very dangerous and extremely illegal act like overthrowing a civilian government means those personnel in the military responsible were strongly attached, emotionally to take action. Since it's not because of concerns over a fair trial the only feasible reason is sympathies towards that "cause". Of course there will be opportunists as well but opportunists take advantage of events not lead them. Your theory only supports the argument that Gulenists within the military were responsible.

I do not make any claim here, I introduce a theory.

If the Military expect they themselves will get arrested in large numbers, it does not take a lot of imagination that they can react with a coup. The Turkish military has intervened in politics before.
There was a purge of the higher officers in the Turkish military before, where they were accused and convicted. As far as I understand, using false evidence.

From my point of view, Gülen tried to overthrow Erdogan in courts. Erdogan reacted by firing everyone in the judicial system which was not a loyal supporter.

My theory supports an argument that the Military discovered that Erdogan had a secret list of people in the Military, which were to be arrested as Gülenist supporters. Any top military on the list would be likely to support a coup, even if they were not Gülenists.

This does not rule out that they were Gülenists of course.

What crime can Gülen be accused for, before the coup?
(Not trolling, I just do not know enough about him)

 

[Rusty]

It is rather Julian Assange that thinks it is legal to be sexual predator in Sweden.
His crime: Having sex without a condom, when the female told him that was mandatory.
That counts as rape in Sweden.

Julian Assange ”believes” he will be extradited and executed, conveniently forgetting that under no circumstances will Sweden extradite someone, if death penalty is a possible punishment.

If the US wanted him, why not ask the British to extradite him?
After all, there is a ”special relation” between the US and Great Britain.

Bold part has not been proven. It's a case of he said, she said but he is not incorrect in believing that there is a real chance of being extradited.

And he's not in the UK, he's in an Embassy of another country in the UK. So UK has no legal jurisdiction to extradite him.

 

[Kiryu]

I do not make any claim here, I introduce a theory.

If the Military expect they themselves will get arrested in large numbers, it does not take a lot of imagination that they can react with a coup. The Turkish military has intervened in politics before.
There was a purge of the higher officers in the Turkish military before, where they were accused and convicted. As far as I understand, using false evidence.

Yes your right, there was a purge before, spearheaded by Gulenists and the AKP to remove secularists and the old guard from the military. They used fake evidence and Gulenist judges presided over their trials and they never got a fair trial. The Ergenekon trials should of been a warning to anyone who believes in justice that it was under threat from Gulenists.
A consequence of these purges by the Gulenists was that Gulenists within the military were promoted to take the place of those arrested or retired by the purges.
Now, knowing this it is clear the coup attempt was a panicked attempt to save themselves and the decades of work the "community" spent embedding themselves within state structures.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Yes your right, there was a purge before, spearheaded by Gulenists and the AKP to remove secularists and the old guard from the military. They used fake evidence and Gulenist judges presided over their trials and they never got a fair trial. The Ergenekon trials should of been a warning to anyone who believes in justice that it was under threat from Gulenists.
A consequence of these purges by the Gulenists was that Gulenists within the military were promoted to take the place of those arrested or retired by the purges.
Now, knowing this it is clear the coup attempt was a panicked attempt to save themselves and the decades of work the "community" spent embedding themselves within state structures.

Yes, that matches quite well how I perceive things.
Key here is ”Gülenist and AKP”. Both Erdogan and Gülen are guilty here.
Most followers of them did not commit any crimes during the Ergenekon trials.
Only those producing fake evidence.

Then Erdogans inner circle was investigated for corruption.
Since Erdogan stopped the investigation by getting rid of all the investigators,
it was not allowed to complete.

I have no problem accepting that the Gülenists may have tried to assume control over Turkey by overthrowing Erdogan, but if it is done through legal means, I do not have a problem with things.

Even if it is done by producing fake evidence, that is a crime of the prosecutors, not of any Military men.

I do believe that a military man who has not committed any crime but finds out that he is about to get arrested and convicted in a phony trial, might consider a coup.

What is changed if Erdogans inner circle actually were corrupt?

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Bold part has not been proven. It's a case of he said, she said but he is not incorrect in believing that there is a real chance of being extradited.

And he's not in the UK, he's in an Embassy of another country in the UK. So UK has no legal jurisdiction to extradite him.

It has not been proven, because he refused to appear in court.
He was in the U.K. when the court decided that he should be extradited to Sweden.
He then was turned out on bail, which he escaped,
so now he is undeniable a criminal wanted by the police in the U.K.

Some of the court cases in Sweden has expired. They happened too long ago according to rules,
but the most important case, that of minor rape remains until August 2020.

Ecuador have tried to negotiate his release or transfer to Ecuador, but the U.K. wants him.
He will rot in the Embassy or in a U.K. jail.

He will also lose the bail money he borrowed, and are now in debt for millions.

 

[xenon54 out]

I don’t claim that Gülen was behind the coup.
Neither do I claim that Gülen was not behind the coup.
I just see Gülen accused, but as with the Pastor, not a lot of proof has been made public.

Neither do I claim that my theory is correct. I certainly have no proof for it.
Based on what has happened, I just find my theory the most plausible.

As for calling people terrorist, I do not think that terrorism is the correct denomination
of people attempting a coup d’etat. That does not mean that they have not performed crimes.

There are more than enough proofs for Gülen being behind the coup, just because west denies it doesnt mean its all wrong.
The US also denied other regime changes/attempts for decades until it became declassified eventually, and this ist the first regime change in Turkey supported by USA either, this one will be no different.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

There are more than enough proofs for Gülen being behind the coup, just because west denies it doesnt mean its all wrong.
The US also denied other regime changes/attempts for decades until it became declassified eventually, and this ist the first regime change in Turkey supported by USA either, this one will be no different.

Personally, I do not see any benefit in replacing Erdogan with Gülen,
even if I do not see why anybody would want Erdogan.
Turkey would better off with someone honouring the legacy of Atatürk.

 

[xenon54 out]

Personally, I do not see any benefit in replacing Erdogan with Gülen,
even if I do not see why anybody would want Erdogan.
Turkey would better off with someone honouring the legacy of Atatürk.

For USA there are tons of benefits replacing Erdogan with a obedient leader.
I for sure am no way a supporter of Erdogan but why would i support replacing him with someone whos listening to his cult masters across the big pond?
This was exactly what erdogan was till 5 years ago and i would not wish to repeat that all over again. More important Turkey would be in the hands of non-independent leaders who would put washingtons interests first instead of Turkey.
I think we have played that clowns show long enough and need to get rid of American influence which has been paralyzing Turkey long enough.

As for Atatürks legacy, it hasnt been attacked that much in history compared to when gülenists started to seize power in the country with US help, suddenly insulting him openly on TV was non issue anymore under the pretext of ''freedom of speech''.
A leader who follows Atatürk principles would be USA's nighmare since he is the prime exsample of getting free from imperialist claws and becoming independent, so expecting US to install anyone close this is laughable at best.
At best they would replace Erdogan with another islamist, they are know to sell out any principle for their own benefit.

 

[Bismarck]

Personally, I do not see any benefit in replacing Erdogan with Gülen,
even if I do not see why anybody would want Erdogan.
Turkey would better off with someone honouring the legacy of Atatürk.

Personally, I think they should stop that personality cult.