Pashto to be official language: Sikandar Sherpao

[Hyperion]

Never gonna happen, and it shouldn't. I am with @Armstrong on this. This will be disastrous.

 

[Armstrong]

Never gonna happen, and it shouldn't. I am with @Armstrong on this. This will be disastrous.

I'm so overwhelmed !

Thank You !

 

[Hyperion]

Daffa ho, drama queen!

I'm so overwhelmed !

Thank You !

 

[Armstrong]

Daffa ho, drama queen!

@Talon : The King has arrived !

 

[Chak Bamu]

you are quoting me where as you are too dumb to realise some facts

1) punjabis broke punjab and not urdu speakers the reality which doesnt change with any of my words

2) urdu speakers were beaurocrats who dont control the army, the army generals control the army and punjabis killed bengalis and not urdu speakers

3) quaid e azam said urdu should be the national language, bengali never accepted quaid e azam as their leader, they accepted mujib as their leader who sent his guys to KGB for training against pakistan, mujeeb also got backed by india

4) lets consider if bengladesh was part of pakistan which according to ayub khan was never on cards because the separation was cards for a long time, ayub khan said there will never be east pakistan united with west pakistan

5) ayub khan and not urdu speakers did the mistake by making east and west two units and thats where the mess started and not the bengali language

6) urdu speakers never brought guns to bengalis, we were beurocrats and not the army, urdu speakers did got into trouble by supporting the pakistani army comprising majority of punjabi people, till today bengalis purely hate punjabis and not over all pakistanis

7) punjabis are even hated by baloch people, there are wall chokings to curse punjabis, baloch perception about punjabis is the lowest among all pakistanis

8) if east pakistan was with the west we were thronged by immigrants by bengali population, it would have been burden on us,

9) they bengalis conveniently play the indian card, they are more closer to india then pakistan geographically and culturally

10) bengalis would have back stabbed us many times making west pakistan weaker

11) bengalis hate pakistan just go to their country and try to get theor hospitality on bases of a pakistanis

12) punjabis your ancestors ran away after surrendering where as our ancestors urdu speakers laid down many lives just because we harboured the pak army which left us to rot in there

13) the urdu speakers were butchered like animals for supporting pakistan cause, no help came from west pakistan to rescue the stranded urdu speakers

14) urdu speakers had choice to accept bengladeshi nationality, they didnt because they expected pakistan to rescue them and hold pakistan identity, for this they were treated worse then shudras of india

15) the punjabis escaped where bengalis massacred raped, stole our properties and we were forced to hide for our lives and migrate with nothing in our hand

OK, now we are getting somewhere. It is interesting to see how your background has conditioned your thinking. I can now see why you carry hatred for Bengalis and Punjabis. This very fact makes you unsuitable to discuss these things. You have an emotional issue that would keep you from doing any justice. That said, I shall answer you point by point:

1. I think you wanted to say "Punjabis broke Pakistan" instead of "Punjabis broke Punjab". I would just make an observation about 'Freudian slip' and let it rest. Unless you want to clarify more.

2. Pakistan of 1950s and 60s was different from Pakistan of 80s & later. Breakup of Pakistan is not a simple matter of attributing this happening to an ethnic group. That is either dishonesty or laziness or both. 40% of the army was Pashtun. Does that do anything for you to modify your views somewhat? The top generals were not all (or even most) Punjabis. The COAS, president, etc... were also not Punjabi. You DO accept that most of the beauraucrats were not Punjabi. Thank God for that. The only two Punjabis who held reigns of power during 50s were Ch. Muhammad Ali who gave us the 1956 constitution against all odds, and Malik Feroze Khan Noon, who negotiated and bought Gawadar. These people were ousted by Gov. Gen. Ghulam Muhammad and Sikandar Mirza, both non-Punjabis. So what to make of it then? Can you still say that Punjabis broke Pakistan with same conviction?

3. Your bit about Quaid-e-Azam and Mujib is historically inaccurate. Why did Bengalis vote for Muslim League in 1946 if they did not accept Quaid as a leader? Mujib was no where around at that time. He was merely a student. BTW, Mujib for all his bluster, never explicitly called for breakup of Pakistan. It was Yahya Khan's delusions of being and staying President that got us in the position that Mujib felt compelled to take an extreme position. There is plenty of historical evidence that shows that he did not want to break Pakistan. He was interested in Bengali rights, not nationhood. He was forced there not by Punjabis, but by the ruling elite headed by Yahya Khan. You conveniently ignore Bhutto's role in the breakup too.

4. For the saying that you are attributing to Ayub Khan, I have to ask for a reference. You have to prove this for me and others to believe.

5. Again you are making a mistake by attributing something to Ayub Khan. Do you even know how and when the One unit system came about? For some one trying to dig up History, is it appropriate to distort it willfully or out of ignorance? You can never prove your assertion. Just try it and see if you can do it.

6. I have Bengali friends (I just spoke to one yesterday), I have been to Bangladesh. I have had frank discussions even. Never once have I come across a single Bengali who said or even showed that they hated Punjabis. You are making things up here I believe. How old are you?

7. I wonder how does one choke a wall? Mystifying you are! In any case, if Baloch seperatists have killed Punjabis, then they have also killed Urdu-speakers. They seemingly do not discriminate. Perhaps they think that they are doing their cause a favor by shooting poor Laborers. Perhaps they think that they are sending a strong message of hate. What ever it is, Urdu speakers are equal targets. It would be pertinent to point out that the latest outbreak in Balochistan happened during Musharraf years, and that Musharraf made things worse for Balochistan and us. I do not see a 'Punjab' angle in this situation as such.

8. We still have millions of Bengali brothers. Had they come to West Pakistan, they would have been in their country. People like me or you would have little cause to object to them. This further shows your bias and thinking. Unfortunate.

9 & 10. Just see #8. Just more BS from you about Bengalis.

11. I have been to Bangladesh twice. Never had a single problem, even though I was known as Pakistani and my hosts knew me as Punjabi. I do not know from where you get your info. A lot has changed over the years. You shouls rearrange your prejudices a little, if not actually question them.

12, 13, 14, & 15: What happened to Biharis was most unfortunate. Blame Ayub Khan and Yahya Khan for their Martial Laws. Had a constitutional government been in place, things would not have deteriorated to that level. When countries break, unfortunate things happen. Heck, when Bagladeshi troops mutinied, they killed not just army personnel, but also raped and killed their families whenever possible. Your ancestors were not alone in this. Moreover, our army was following orders. Lions being led by druken jackals. Why blame specifically Punjabis? Some of our troops refused to obey order to surrender and became shaheeds rather than POW. Do you read history or do you present your prejudices as facts of history without bothering to examine yourself?

I do not think you can easily answer any of the above. I shall be waiting for more foul language and a repetition of your unsupported and unfounded claims. This is what you do best.

 

[Ayush]

I'm so overwhelmed !

Thank You !

yahan,bhi shuru ho gaye.

 

[Hyperion]

ENOUGH EXPERIMENTS WITH LANGUAGES / EDUCATION SYSTEM / NO SYSTEM / LIES / QUOTAS / DOMICILES / FAKE HISTORY BOOKS / (ARABIZED WAHABI ISLAMIAT / NO ISLAMIAT)

What else is left? Enough with all of that ****. May he burn in eternal hell, Zia, actually started ALL of this crap...

 

[l3hdf]

Thats my opinion as well but for all intents & purposes this is, hopefully, just an election gimmick because if they decide upon Pashto to be the official language of KPK they would have lost the Hazara region permanently & possible some of the non Pashto speaking districts of the rest of KPK ! Likewise if Punjabi were to be made the Official Language of Punjab, there is bound to be resentment in the Seraiki-Pashto speaking region of Minawali, the predominantly Pothari, Gojri & Hindko speaking of Northern Punjab & whatever remains of the Seraiki belt after Southern Punjab & Bhwalapur have been separated from Punjab.

Aren't Hindkowans the original inhabitants of Peshawar and surrounding regions to the north/east? I read they are desi people, by origin, who are indigenous to that area but were driven out later when Pashtuns moved down from the Khyber pass. Over time their genetics shifted as the settlers started inter mixing with natives that remained there, so some have part Pashtun blood. Areas to the west of that are very interesting in general because it roughly marked the "boundary" between Indic and Iranic people in ancient times, but people lived and moved freely on both sides, before this whole silsila of invasions, conquering and bloodshed came about. When people lived alongside each other peacefully for thousands of years, Ah those were better times. I was born in the wrong millennium.

 

[Armstrong]

Aren't Hindkowans the original inhabitants of Peshawar and surrounding regions to the north/east? I read they are desi people, by origin, who are indigenous to that area but were driven out later when Pashtuns moved down from the Khyber pass. Over time their genetics shifted as the settlers started inter mixing with natives that remained there, so some have part Pashtun blood. Areas to the west of that are very interesting in general because it roughly marked the "boundary" between Indic and Iranic people in ancient times, but people lived and moved freely on both sides, before this whole silsila of invasions, conquering and bloodshed came about. When people lived alongside each other peacefully for thousands of years, Ah those were better times. I was born in the wrong millennium.

I dunno about the genetic makeup of Hindkowans vs that of the Pukhtoons back to their origin but I do know this that there are many Hindko speaking Pukhtoons in KPK & the rest of Pakistan & so I never knew them to be a separate ethnic group per se but more a separate linguistic group in much the same way the Seraikis & Punjabis are of same blood but different language.
@Safriz @Hyperion can shed better light on this !

 

[MadDog]

Aren't Hindkowans the original inhabitants of Peshawar and surrounding regions to the north/east? I read they are desi people, by origin, who are indigenous to that area but were driven out later when Pashtuns moved down from the Khyber pass. Over time their genetics shifted as the settlers started inter mixing with natives that remained there, so some have part Pashtun blood. Areas to the west of that are very interesting in general because it roughly marked the "boundary" between Indic and Iranic people in ancient times, but people lived and moved freely on both sides, before this whole silsila of invasions, conquering and bloodshed came about. When people lived alongside each other peacefully for thousands of years, Ah those were better times. I was born in the wrong millennium.

Dude, it depends who uses the word "Desi" which means local..for us Pakistanis...Pushtuns , Baloch, Balti, Makrani, Hazara people are desis....for you they might not be...just as if u ask me...i won't consider your tamils, telugu, gujratis, marhati people and many other as desi....while you do consider them as such...it depends upon the context in which you use the word desi !!!

 

[xyxmt]

Whats the harm in it. But it should come with Sindhi Balochi and Punjabi being made official languages too.
@darkinsky, @RazorMC, @xyxmt it's good to think with someone elses shoes for once. Try to do it just once. Urdu speaker families like mine sold Bengal due to this same attitude-I can produce news headlines from the time. Its just a language and when we talk of the primacy of urdu we talk of our families privileged position on top. I saw this and how we represented the status quo. You might hate me but I am not really just merging as a Pashtun despite being a migrant essentially. I am challenging deep-rooted traditions and attacking ancient beliefs. By merging I seek to open our eyes that it was always possible to merge, become Sindhis. This is our migrants failure not the Sindhis or others.

Also it isn't the pathans who can't think beyond ethnicity. Its all of us. Meri darkhast hai key tum log unki nazar sey masley ko dekho. Their languages are dying in favor of Urdu and according to reports. Only 61% people can write the word zuban in Pashto. We Pakistanis are like a flower. Each petal comprises the flower, not just one petal. Urdu+Pashto+Punjabi+Seraiki and more make up this flower. So please. Let the Pashtuns decide.

The Pashtun in me sees this as a welcome step... but I am a Pakistani first and being one means loving all cultures and languages. This should only happen if Sindhi, Balochi and Punjabi too become official. @Chak Bamu, @Armstrong @Pukhtoon, @Hyperion what do you guys think?

dont want to get too deep in this discussion but I know how our generation was screwed royally by changing medium of education more often than changing our cloths, one year it was Sindhi, next 6 months it was urdu then came Persian subject as compulsary and finally we learned Arabic. Sindhi language to get Sind's Votes, Persian to money from Shah of Iran and Arabic to get Money from kings of screwing muslims. you can pick any guy walking on the street around age 50 and you can have very intellectual conversation with him pick any of those languages I just mentioned and you will find the mastery that will put even the native speakers to shame. you know whats our problem we are emotional thinker not rational thinker, yes save a language and screw a nation. I can definitely see the sincerity of Mr. Sherpao just as I saw the sincerity of Asfandyar in choosing their province's name. Its all about naming a province and studying your language and all your problem will be solved, NWFP is half Janat now since name has been selected and the rest depends on pushto education.

 

[darkinsky]

OK, now we are getting somewhere. It is interesting to see how your background has conditioned your thinking. I can now see why you carry hatred for Bengalis and Punjabis. This very fact makes you unsuitable to discuss these things. You have an emotional issue that would keep you from doing any justice. That said, I shall answer you point by point:

1. I think you wanted to say "Punjabis broke Pakistan" instead of "Punjabis broke Punjab". I would just make an observation about 'Freudian slip' and let it rest. Unless you want to clarify more.

2. Pakistan of 1950s and 60s was different from Pakistan of 80s & later. Breakup of Pakistan is not a simple matter of attributing this happening to an ethnic group. That is either dishonesty or laziness or both. 40% of the army was Pashtun. Does that do anything for you to modify your views somewhat? The top generals were not all (or even most) Punjabis. The COAS, president, etc... were also not Punjabi. You DO accept that most of the beauraucrats were not Punjabi. Thank God for that. The only two Punjabis who held reigns of power during 50s were Ch. Muhammad Ali who gave us the 1956 constitution against all odds, and Malik Feroze Khan Noon, who negotiated and bought Gawadar. These people were ousted by Gov. Gen. Ghulam Muhammad and Sikandar Mirza, both non-Punjabis. So what to make of it then? Can you still say that Punjabis broke Pakistan with same conviction?

3. Your bit about Quaid-e-Azam and Mujib is historically inaccurate. Why did Bengalis vote for Muslim League in 1946 if they did not accept Quaid as a leader? Mujib was no where around at that time. He was merely a student. BTW, Mujib for all his bluster, never explicitly called for breakup of Pakistan. It was Yahya Khan's delusions of being and staying President that got us in the position that Mujib felt compelled to take an extreme position. There is plenty of historical evidence that shows that he did not want to break Pakistan. He was interested in Bengali rights, not nationhood. He was forced there not by Punjabis, but by the ruling elite headed by Yahya Khan. You conveniently ignore Bhutto's role in the breakup too.

4. For the saying that you are attributing to Ayub Khan, I have to ask for a reference. You have to prove this for me and others to believe.

5. Again you are making a mistake by attributing something to Ayub Khan. Do you even know how and when the One unit system came about? For some one trying to dig up History, is it appropriate to distort it willfully or out of ignorance? You can never prove your assertion. Just try it and see if you can do it.

6. I have Bengali friends (I just spoke to one yesterday), I have been to Bangladesh. I have had frank discussions even. Never once have I come across a single Bengali who said or even showed that they hated Punjabis. You are making things up here I believe. How old are you?

7. I wonder how does one choke a wall? Mystifying you are! In any case, if Baloch seperatists have killed Punjabis, then they have also killed Urdu-speakers. They seemingly do not discriminate. Perhaps they think that they are doing their cause a favor by shooting poor Laborers. Perhaps they think that they are sending a strong message of hate. What ever it is, Urdu speakers are equal targets. It would be pertinent to point out that the latest outbreak in Balochistan happened during Musharraf years, and that Musharraf made things worse for Balochistan and us. I do not see a 'Punjab' angle in this situation as such.

8. We still have millions of Bengali brothers. Had they come to West Pakistan, they would have been in their country. People like me or you would have little cause to object to them. This further shows your bias and thinking. Unfortunate.

9 & 10. Just see #8. Just more BS from you about Bengalis.

11. I have been to Bangladesh twice. Never had a single problem, even though I was known as Pakistani and my hosts knew me as Punjabi. I do not know from where you get your info. A lot has changed over the years. You shouls rearrange your prejudices a little, if not actually question them.

12, 13, 14, & 15: What happened to Biharis was most unfortunate. Blame Ayub Khan and Yahya Khan for their Martial Laws. Had a constitutional government been in place, things would not have deteriorated to that level. When countries break, unfortunate things happen. Heck, when Bagladeshi troops mutinied, they killed not just army personnel, but also raped and killed their families whenever possible. Your ancestors were not alone in this. Moreover, our army was following orders. Lions being led by druken jackals. Why blame specifically Punjabis? Some of our troops refused to obey order to surrender and became shaheeds rather than POW. Do you read history or do you present your prejudices as facts of history without bothering to examine yourself?

I do not think you can easily answer any of the above. I shall be waiting for more foul language and a repetition of your unsupported and unfounded claims. This is what you do best.

you and me can carry on like this but the reality doesnt change that punjabis broke pakistan before and they are yet again trying to break pakistan by this balochistan issue

you seem to think that balochs are ignorants who dont differentiate between the punjabis and urdu speakers, if thats the case they would have hated all the pakistanis, no, but they hate punjab and punjabis, there must be some reason they hate punjab and the reason is punjabis steal ther resources, while they are given scraps and their province gains scrap development, all the other punjab area gets the best development, the gas extracted from balochistan goes to punjab and balochistan doesnt even get the development and then carry out army operations against them

you are one brainwashed kid who thinks bengalis dont think ill about punjabis and pakistanis, dont know where did you went but you should watch some video about shahzad roy going to bangladesh and when he said some thing about pakistan the crowd went very angry and every bengali thinks pakistani should apologise for the 71, and not the language thing you keep talking

the bengalis also claim the pak army comprising of majority of punjabis raped their ladies, we didnt rape their women but your ancestors did, who was general tikka khan?

musharraf only dealt the baloch mess which was created long time ago, he infact built road networks which was non existant in balochistan, tried to build dams and tried to make gwadar, balochs are upset because of negligence for many years not just musharraf's time

if you go and ask any baloch and even pathan out their and their source of grievances they would blame punjab

first you guys break pakistan and now telling how bengalis are brother to us go to some of their forums and see how they hate pakistan so much

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

Pashto as official langauge of province and medium of education would make lot of things easier for people and would promote literacy rate, quality of education would increase .
But it is not going to happen as long as KPK is part of Pakistan.

 

[Spring Onion]

Pashto as official langauge of province and medium of education would make lot of things easier for people and would promote literacy rate, quality of education would increase .
But it is not going to happen as long as KPK is part of Pakistan.

99.9% of Pukhtuns in KP can NOT write Pashto and most of them can not read Pashto.

This is the stupidest idea which ANP recently floated and also Sikandar is making some noises over it.

you will see the Pukhtuns themself will reject it because most of their kids go to private schools and there they prefer English /Urdu.

above all its another attempt to slow down literacy rate. I remember when i was a kid we used to have pashto subject at primary level and NO Pukhtun teacher was able to teach us hence i have to teach my class as well as senior classes since i would take lessons from my father at Home.

Aren't Hindkowans the original inhabitants of Peshawar and surrounding regions to the north/east? I read they are desi people, by origin, who are indigenous to that area but were driven out later when Pashtuns moved down from the Khyber pass. Over time their genetics shifted as the settlers started inter mixing with natives that remained there, so some have part Pashtun blood. Areas to the west of that are very interesting in general because it roughly marked the "boundary" between Indic and Iranic people in ancient times, but people lived and moved freely on both sides, before this whole silsila of invasions, conquering and bloodshed came about. When people lived alongside each other peacefully for thousands of years, Ah those were better times. I was born in the wrong millennium.

Yes thats true. the city belongs to Hindkowans and till late it was part of Punjab even

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

dont want to get too deep in this discussion but I know how our generation was screwed royally by changing medium of education more often than changing our cloths, one year it was Sindhi, next 6 months it was urdu then came Persian subject as compulsary and finally we learned Arabic. Sindhi language to get Sind's Votes, Persian to money from Shah of Iran and Arabic to get Money from kings of screwing muslims. you can pick any guy walking on the street around age 50 and you can have very intellectual conversation with him pick any of those languages I just mentioned and you will find the mastery that will put even the native speakers to shame. you know whats our problem we are emotional thinker not rational thinker, yes save a language and screw a nation. I can definitely see the sincerity of Mr. Sherpao just as I saw the sincerity of Asfandyar in choosing their province's name. Its all about naming a province and studying your language and all your problem will be solved, NWFP is half Janat now since name has been selected and the rest depends on pushto education.

"Desi people" means indians and those pakistanis with indic background like punjabis, sindhis, kashmiris, mohajirs....
Pashtuns and balochs are not desi, but they are undergoing process of desification ever since 1947. Look at this thread, pakistanis here are very furious at the idea of pashto , thousands years old langauge, as official and educational langauge of the province. At the occasion of renaming of NWFP there were talks of east pakistan scenario . A punjabi has given up on his identity, langauge and culture and expects pashtuns, sindhis and balochs to do the same in the name of "national unity".