Panama Case - Post Verdict Discussion and Updates

[El Sidd]

Nahi in shaa Allah aisa nahi hoga



Nabi (saw) ki ummat par ijtemai azab nahi aayega. Sirf aazmaishain.

Baqi yahan bhi har firqa kisi na kisi ke intezar main Hai.

Sab se bari burai hum main yeh Hai ke hum apnay aap ko chuni huee qaum samajhtay hain. Halat tou dekho aur soch dekho.

Bani Israel ki misaal iss liey bhi di ke woh bhi chunay huay thay

Sir hum chunn liye gaye kisi ki dua kay bazriye. Hum me koi surkhaab nahi hain.

Per aap zara muslim duniya me daur laga kr dekhen. Sab galay kaat rahe or hum birthday cakes kaat rahe hai. Jesi majmooi halat hai usme musalman ke darjah emaani me Pakistani sab se awwal hai.

Izzat zillat Allah deta hai gora nahi.

To bus intezar kare. Humse jitna hua usse barh kr hath pair maar lenge per rehbaaniyat per yakeen nahi krenge.

 

[karakoram]

 

[karakoram]

 

[PakSword]

Sir hum chunn liye gaye kisi ki dua kay bazriye. Hum me koi surkhaab nahi hain.

Per aap zara muslim duniya me daur laga kr dekhen. Sab galay kaat rahe or hum birthday cakes kaat rahe hai. Jesi majmooi halat hai usme musalman ke darjah emaani me Pakistani sab se awwal hai.

Izzat zillat Allah deta hai gora nahi.

To bus intezar kare. Humse jitna hua usse barh kr hath pair maar lenge per rehbaaniyat per yakeen nahi krenge.

O Bhai kaun si rehbaniyat?

Surah Asar parho. Aur seerat e nabwi bhi parho. Yeh rahbaniyat rehbaniyat kia lagaya hua Hai?

Aur mere dost yeh "kisi ki dua" ka zikar na kia karo, agar Quran aur Hadith main nahi.

 

[El Sidd]

O Bhai kaun si rehbaniyat?

Surah Asar parho. Aur seerat e nabwi bhi parho. Yeh rahbaniyat rehbaniyat kia lagaya hua Hai?

Aur mere dost yeh "kisi ki dua" ka zikar na kia karo, agar Quran aur Hadith main nahi.

Insan infiraadi or majmooi tor pe khasaray me hai siwaye un logon kay jo imaan laye or nek amal krte rahe.

Agar ye corruption najaiz haq marna ha to iske khilaaf jihad hoga kabhi na kabhi. Agar nahi to imaan walay bhi khasaray me hain.

Aap Pakistan ki haqeeqat se waqif nahi. Isliye me apse iss bat pe wese hi behas nahi krta.

Hamari tarbiyat ese hui hai kay beta hum Pakistani hain or usse bari baat hum musalman hain.

POV alag alag hain so we can always agree to disagree.

 

[Farah Sohail]

What should be the title of new movie?
Basheera in action OR

Basheera in inaction

Basheera in action ziada theek rahay ga..

View attachment 430241

Chalien ji..ek aur drama.... Mera khyal hai ke sharif family ne hi kaha hoga NAB ko..ke isay aatay hi giriftar kar lein...ke humein rona daalnay ka aur mauqa mil jaye.. Waisy hi kal tu isay bail mil hi jayegi...

Basheeray ne tu waisy hi baji maryam ko...bailable arrest warrants ka kaha tha... Baji ko tu waisy hi saaray gunah maaf hain

 

[PakSword]

Nawaz is chief beneficiary of this rotten system and irony is those powers that created it; can't undo it with a wave of magic wand; they can't control a joker named AH even though trying their best for so many years; so how can they (Pakistan Army and Judiciary by and large) or anyone else dismantle their own ladla in just a matter of weeks.

To avoid any possible backlash as NS still enjoys public support. What I call NRO is that someone is given full assurance that he will be acquitted. Here the case is different. Some people think that the only way to weaken him is to send him away from his support base. Over time, party may be broken, bureaucracy may become free from his clutches, public support will be reduced etc etc. NS is no AH. He can't run the party without coming back to Pakistan. Plus, he doesn't enjoy competition free province. People don't vote him on ethnic background.

He is not being told, but he is definitely being given enough chances to leave.

But if he prefers fight, then he will be humiliated for sure.

Anyway, let's see what happens.

 

[newb3e]

Wow capt safdar arrested!! Even though he will be freed but still never expected to see someone from ruling elite getting arrested!

Ansoo agaye kasmay

 

[Farah Sohail]

. The only thing wanted is a Man as a judge who can apply the laws to provide maximum Justice. .

Aap ki yeh baat dil ko choo gayi... Bas yehi chahye humein aur kuch nahi

 

[newb3e]

Why not arrest that witch mariam safdar?

 

[El Sidd]

There were so many names on Panama. Sab Kay sab bach gaye. Sab kay sab awaami leader thay?

Wah

 

[Realistic Change]

To avoid any possible backlash as NS still enjoys public support. What I call NRO is that someone is given full assurance that he will be acquitted. Here the case is different. Some people think that the only way to weaken him is to send him away from his support base. Over time, party may be broken, bureaucracy may become free from his clutches, public support will be reduced etc etc. NS is no AH. He can't run the party without coming back to Pakistan. Plus, he doesn't enjoy competition free province. People don't vote him on ethnic background.

He is not being told, but he is definitely being given enough chances to leave.

But if he prefers fight, then he will be humiliated for sure.

Anyway, let's see what happens.

He is not being told, but he is definitely being given enough chances to leave.

1. Who are you referring to here? Who has told this to Nawaz?

What I call NRO is that someone is given full assurance that he will be acquitted.

2. Who is that someone? Who has given this assurance as per your info ?

3. And lastly, what are you referring as acquitted in above?

a) he will be cleaned and allowed to be in his previous position?

b) not charged fully, but let go to say UK and live there?

c) any other type of acquittal .......please let us know.

My advance apologies for not understanding your post.

 

[Shane]

Law has never been applied on any powerful be it Musharraf, Zardari, Zia, Yahya, Nawaz, or Ch Iftikhar, Mean Mansha, Malik Riaz, Salman Farooqui etc., just to give examples of cross section of ashrafiya and hundreds more in the past or present. That's a plain and simple fact. Isn't it?

As said thousands of time before over here; bureaucracy is the kingpin. Whoever will be at front; will succumb to it. Massive cleanup is not possible if we remain within the decayed and rotten to the core system. If we believe that incremental change will happen with each passing day; it ain't happening. No country like ours in the history has risen from 0 to 1, 1 to 2, 2 to 3, either they have gone down the drain or have shook up the foundations and made change from 0-20, 0-30 types.

We as a nation has compromised at all levels; the same feudal lords that study in west and abide by every law during their education (while doing College / University) and are champions of every right movement; the moment they step out of aeroplane and land in Pakistan; revel in being above the law.

Almost all sitting MNAs and Bureaucrats who have studied and lived in west lived their lives according to law; they love breaking/twisting/beating the law when they are in land of pure. So; it's in their interest to let the system prevail as dismantling of it and applying the law in toto is their death at their own hands; and suicide is a sin - they totally agree here!

I have different information from four different sources; (AF, CS, Politicians and Diplomats) and I know there is give and take, but NRO is a totally different ball game, as some people terming as NRO; without specifying the basis or their supporting arguments.

Nawaz is chief beneficiary of this rotten system and irony is those powers that created it; can't undo it with a wave of magic wand; they can't control a joker named AH even though trying their best for so many years; so how can they (Pakistan Army and Judiciary by and large) or anyone else dismantle their own ladla in just a matter of weeks.

Agree with your post that no actual NRO as of now but I think everyone including @PakSword refers to the on going give and take, give actually nothing and take more and more liberties, as amounting to NRO and an ominous precursor to it if not already a done deal.

My two cents about who is the real ladla sharif.

NS is not the actual ladla sharif after Kiani, SS is the ladla. NS is the beneficiary of SS goodwill with Establishment. SS remains loyal and subservient to NS by his own voluntary choice despite offers to supersede NS but he remains committed to NS as long as NS decides to stay on top.

This does not mean that SS does not have the desire to supersede NS but is a matter of family values and most probably a pledge to their late father.

Remember the Go Nawaz Go chants during NS speech being encouraged by SS in one of General worker meetings in Lahore during dharna days. Remember that it was SS who refused in front of JIT to acknowledge his signatures on Sale deeds of Dubai Steel mill docs that NS lawyer submitted to Panama bench, practically amounts to ditching his elder brother but SS did it anyway as he could claim that he just told the truth. Remember that SS has kept Ch Nisar supported as his man at federal level against the strong group of NS supporters. Remember the strong statements against Maryam by Ch Nisar. Remember the rift between Hamza and Maryam.

So the desire to supersede NS is there but still SS seems bound as if by some pledge that he will always be by NS side as long as his elder brother decides to stay as the leader.

 

[Realistic Change]

Agree with your post that no actual NRO as of now but I think everyone including @PakSword refers to the on going give and take, give actually nothing and take more and more liberties, as amounting to NRO and an ominous precursor to it if not already a done deal.

My two cents about who is the real ladla sharif.

NS is not the actual ladla sharif after Kiani, SS is the ladla. NS is the beneficiary of SS goodwill with Establishment. SS remains loyal and subservient to NS by his own voluntary choice despite offers to supersede NS but he remains committed to NS as long as NS decides to stay on top.

This does not mean that SS does not have the desire to supersede NS but is a matter of family values and most probably a pledge to their late father.

Remember the Go Nawaz Go chants during NS speech being encouraged by SS in one of General worker meetings in Lahore during dharna days. Remember that it was SS who refused in front of JIT to acknowledge his signatures on Sale deeds of Dubai Steel mill docs that NS lawyer submitted to Panama bench, practically amounts to ditching his elder brother but SS did it anyway as he could claim that he just told the truth. Remember that SS has kept Ch Nisar supported as his man at federal level against the strong group of NS supporters. Remember the strong statements against Maryam by Ch Nisar. Remember the rift between Hamza and Maryam.

So the desire to supersede NS is there but still SS seems bound as if by some pledge that he will always be by NS side as long as his elder brother decides to stay as the leader.

I got confused; and I am sure many others would be thinking the same hence my questions for getting better understanding that when it’s said “someone” has given assurance of NRO (this word has been repeated countless times) then WHO is it? Is it a person, an institution, a Govt., a State ...who is that someone?

Also, what is NRO - what do we exactly mean when we use that word? We need to understand what does that actually mean when it’s used.

That’s why I requested @PakSword and others using this word to gain better understanding so all of us are on the same page and can participate in the discussion while understanding the perspective and reference. He is extremely well informed and connected guy so it would benefit all of us here to discuss the issues with more clarity.

Now to your points noted above; I absolutely understand where you are coming from re the internal rift between Sharifs.

As you know Sharifs were three brothers, Late Abbas had been far removed from politics except for once he contested elections which were actually selection , this stands pretty much very much true for their current generations and offspring of Late Abbas are not into politics and most suave amongst the entire family. Nawaz's son in London has psychiatric issues after Musharraf's coup and he was so against coming to Pakistan; that he categorically stated that even if he is killed he would prefer that over going back to Pakistan, this leaves Nawaz very few options other than Maryam to hold his family's fort against comparatively much more able leadership and grass root level understanding of politics of Hamza.

Nawaz was 100% sure that he will not be disqualified and from the position of strength will install Maryam as his true heir but this SCP bench threw wrench into his plans and he honestly got caught off guard and now he is "negotiating" within his family from a position of weakness.

I wrote extensively what had happened in the family at Jati Umra as well their residences in Model Town and how sour the relations were where even bhateja did not listen to remain under shadow of Maryam for NA-120, for which Maryam was defecto CM as Shahbaz left the race open for Maryam to fight, hence control room architects were Rana Maqbool as well son (who is also a DMG officer) of ex PS to Nawaz in 1993.

Shahbaz is trying his utmost to remain out of it, he is a changed man now; SS of 1988 - 93 was ruthless and extremely competitive he was launched to destroy Chaudhries of Gujrat as Nawaz feared when he will go to Fed there will be vaccuum in Punjab and it will be filled by Parvez Elahi as Ch Shujaat was in Fed and in 1990 Parvez was promised CM Punjab slot after elections, but they won the selection yes...selection, they ditched and offered speakership to Parvez Elahi and that started the first official fight within PMLN. Similar offer was made to Ch Iftikhar to be made President of Pakistan and he fell for it; and now you can see his situation

Coming back to Shahbaz.......ever since SS has been diagnosed with spinal cord cancer, he is totally different person now; I can say that on authority as I have known him pre and post this dreadful disease and he is not even 10% of what he was in 1988-93.

Now; it’s a later second generation (and SS has to not only contend with his very ambitious son but his extra commanding second (let’s call that) wife.

Nawaz has his kitchen cabinet (we all know who those are) and Shahbaz has his own (we all know that too). Plus there are we term as Kings Party Members who win on their own strength, Party ticket doesn’t matter to them.

Shahbaz knows that if the handing over of leadership from
Nawaz is not on friendly terms he will be done. He is not the poster boy/girl of PMLN, Maryam has become that to very slight degree and that’s not sitting well with Shahbaz’s family.

I have to run somewhere ......so I’ll leave it at this .....will post layers

Excuse my typos as I have typed it on my phone (well.....as usual) and in time crunch....until next time .....

 

[Shane]

I got confused; and I am sure many others would be thinking the same hence my questions for getting better understanding that when it’s said “someone” has given assurance of NRO (this word has been repeated countless times) then WHO is it? Is it a person, an institution, a Govt., a State ...who is that someone?

Also, what is NRO - what do we exactly mean when we use that word? We need to understand what does that actually mean when it’s used.

That’s why I requested @PakSword and others using this word to gain better understanding so all of us are on the same page and can participate in the discussion while understanding the perspective and reference. He is extremely well informed and connected guy so it would benefit all of us here to discuss the issues with more clarity.

Now to your points noted above; I absolutely understand where you are coming from re the internal rift between Sharifs.

As you know Sharifs were three brothers, Late Abbas had been far removed from politics except for once he contested elections which were actually selection , this stands pretty much very much true for their current generations and offspring of Late Abbas are not into politics and most suave amongst the entire family. Nawaz's son in London has psychiatric issues after Musharraf's coup and he was so against coming to Pakistan; that he categorically stated that even if he is killed he would prefer that over going back to Pakistan, this leaves Nawaz very few options other than Maryam to hold his family's fort against comparatively much more able leadership and grass root level understanding of politics of Hamza.

Nawaz was 100% sure that he will not be disqualified and from the position of strength will install Maryam as his true heir but this SCP bench threw wrench into his plans and he honestly got caught off guard and now he is "negotiating" within his family from a position of weakness.

I wrote extensively what had happened in the family at Jati Umra as well their residences in Model Town and how sour the relations were where even bhateja did not listen to remain under shadow of Maryam for NA-120, for which Maryam was defecto CM as Shahbaz left the race open for Maryam to fight, hence control room architects were Rana Maqbool as well son (who is also a DMG officer) of ex PS to Nawaz in 1993.

Shahbaz is trying his utmost to remain out of it, he is a changed man now; SS of 1988 - 93 was ruthless and extremely competitive he was launched to destroy Chaudhries of Gujrat as Nawaz feared when he will go to Fed there will be vaccuum in Punjab and it will be filled by Parvez Elahi as Ch Shujaat was in Fed and in 1990 Parvez was promised CM Punjab slot after elections, but they won the selection yes...selection, they ditched and offered speakership to Parvez Elahi and that started the first official fight within PMLN. Similar offer was made to Ch Iftikhar to be made President of Pakistan and he fell for it; and now you can see his situation

Coming back to Shahbaz.......ever since SS has been diagnosed with spinal cord cancer, he is totally different person now; I can say that on authority as I have known him pre and post this dreadful disease and he is not even 10% of what he was in 1988-93.

Now; it’s a later second generation (and SS has to not only contend with his very ambitious son but his extra commanding second (let’s call that) wife.

Nawaz has his kitchen cabinet (we all know who those are) and Shahbaz has his own (we all know that too). Plus there are we term as Kings Party Members who win on their own strength, Party ticket doesn’t matter to them.

Shahbaz knows that if the handing over of leadership from
Nawaz is not on friendly terms he will be done. He is not the poster boy/girl of PMLN, Maryam has become that to very slight degree and that’s not sitting well with Shahbaz’s family.

I have to run somewhere ......so I’ll leave it at this .....will post layers

Excuse my typos as I have typed it on my phone (well.....as usual) and in time crunch....until next time .....

Typos are always part and parcel of my posts too.

To me, after Panama verdict, Shahbaz has consequently as well as inadvertently inherited a stronger following among PMLN voter and general worker who became somewhat disillusioned (illusioned actually) and felt betrayed to some extent after the reality and extent of Nawaz's corruption and deceit dawned on them.

PMLN supporters being the incorrigible lot that they are, had no choice but to look at Shahbaz as their saviour due to his somewhat defensible on the ground and goal oriented governing reputation and political experience as opposed to the politically novice and clumsy Maryam despite her inheritance claim and support of the tainted Kingpin.

I think that the humiliation of recent general worker convention where Shahbaz virtually created a hyper crowd, taking the usual charged crowd of mostly LB counsellors etc to another level of hype in support for Nawaz is a good example of Shahbaz's increased strength besides the humiliation of "Hamza" chant that pushed a red in the face Nawaz to reluctantly take Hamza's name after initially giving the crowd congrats from only kulsoom, himself, shahbaz and maryam.

Do shed some light on why Shahbaz is reluctant in taking over PMLN without the consent of Nawaz. We have seen his desire to do so but he stops just short of actually doing it.

Don't he realize that it will be next to impossible to dodge the two judicial silver bullets with his name if he gets removed from power without PMLN reigns in his hands? Whoever is in charge of PMLN shall have better chips in hand to trade than those without when the time comes where it might be everyone for him/her self.