Panama Case - Post Verdict Discussion and Updates

[Path-Finder]

all parties have now begun to implode the state. welldone.

 

[Realistic Change]

all parties have now begun to implode the state. welldone.

Sorry state but nothing to be surprised about; Ashrafiya showing it’s true colours; once again- that’s it!

 

[Farah Sohail]

Why is none in the media..emphasizing /focussing on this 5 yr disqualification period? Everyone talked abt party presidency...clause..but none talked abt 5 yr disqualification ..introduced in this bill? This 5 yr clause is included solely to undo NS's disqualification.......Even PTI hasnt talked abt it....

@Realistic Change since you have many sources in PTI.. U should ask them..why isnt PTI making noise abt it? if PTI challenges some clauses of today's bill..in SC...it must include..in them..this 5 yr disqualification too..as its clearly malafide...

 

[PakSword]

What do u think..ppl? @PakSword @Realistic Change @Shane
only slight hope is tht..today's ammndment may not be applicable to cases..already decided..including tht of NS..

Why not applicable?

Do you remember the remarks of some judges when Khuwaja Haris was arguing about the period of DQ? They said that what does law say about the period, on which Kh. Haris (as I remember correctly) said that it wasn't specified.

So, as far as I understand, this amendment has been passed as a clarification rather than a complete change. Question of retrospective application of it or not isn't relevant now. It is not like, earlier the law specifically stated that DQ is "for life" or DQ is "for 50 years" and this period has been amended to DQ is "for 5 years". Had this been the case, the law couldn't have been applied retrospectively.

Tou aaj ka din mithai khanay ka hai.. gulab jaman mangwaein aur apnay sugar level main izafa karain..

Yes because of political issues involved with it as pmln will start hue and cry that it is against us ...

Not just because of political issues involved, but because of the SC's own remarks/ questions on the period span of DQ on the basis of article 62. Now the clarification has been included, what's the reason for SC to strike it down?

 

[Realistic Change]

I had a detailed discussion with some people in Pak today. Although I don't agree with them, but want to share what's going on in the minds of powerful institutions, including SC and establishment as per them (actually these are the two left so I shouldn't use the word "including").

The assessment is that

1 - Sharifs still enjoy a massive public support in Pakistan, specially in Punjab. The support, although received a big dent due to Panama case decision, is not enough to prevent them from winning the next general elections again. It is not just public support, but as @Realistic Change has mentioned many times, our bureaucracy is extremely corrupt and will do whatever to get clear majority in next GEs. Next year is the year of Senate elections as well and if Sharifs/ PMLN are able to get majority in Senate first, and then in National Assembly, there is no way to stop them except Martial Law.

2 - Any action against them, whether by judiciary or any other institution, will be so beneficial for them that it will only add to their vote bank. Unfortunately, Sharifs know how and when to play the victim's card very well. So if they were put on ECL and eventually arrested before leaving Pakistan, it would have returned to them that little public support that they lost during Panama hearing. We have criticized judges on some remarks that seems to be favoring Sharifs might be part of the plan.

3 - Any action against them could have brought a large number of people on the streets as well. These protests could be very deadly and eventually, a Martial Law would have been required to control the situation.

4 - There is a hope, (although little, but the only hope left) is to let them runaway unscathed, and push the perception of powerful mafia that controls judiciary as well, so that their victims card effect can be reversed somehow. No one hates Sharifs more than the 5 judges who were on Panama bench, and expecting them to give relief to Sharifs is just not right. But to build the perception that Sharifs control the judiciary will negate what they have been constantly throwing towards public... that judiciary was biased against them.

5 - There is one more hope, that the party will weaken over the period of time. Sharifs control over the party will also be weakened, and will eventually lead to divisions in the party as @Realistic Change has stated. So rather than execution, it is believed that party will die its natural death in the absence of Sharif family.

6 - All efforts will be made to prevent Sharifs from coming back again. These include the appropriate orders to be passed in absentia. One thing we must remember, although there is a risk of cases becoming dormant in the absence of accused, but if judges reach to the conclusion that Sharifs are purposely avoiding court proceedings without any legit reason, courts may pass appropriate orders of issuing non bailable warrants. This means that they will be arrested upon return.

7 - Some political parties heads are also aware of all this and hence letting all of it happen.


Sharifs want some action, but some members of the family don't want the same gloomy days to occur again in first couple of years of Musharraf. Maryam is one of them. One of the best strategies of Sharifs (specially Nawaz Sharif) would be to remain in Pakistan, face the trials and go to jail. Maryam didn't let this happen as it is very difficult for her to accept the fact that her father in his 70s face the same conditions, which he faced 17-18 years back.

However, due to continuous discussions on costs and benefits, Nawaz Sharif may decide to comeback and face the trial. It will be his decision and no one knows what he will decide in future.

But yes, in my opinion, the chances of Nawaz Sharif coming back soon are extremely distant. This case has died and I don't want to live in a fools paradise to believe that NS will face a jail term, or his London properties will be eventually sold to get the looted money back to Pakistan..

It's dead guys.. lets accept it and move on..

@PakSword just a very small example of how Nawaz & Shahbaz controls Bureaucracy:

https://www.facebook.com/

 

[PakSword]

all parties have now begun to implode the state. welldone.

if PTI challenges some clauses of today's bill..in SC...it must include..in them..this 5 yr disqualification too..as its clearly malafide...

If this law has been passed by the difference of one vote, as @The Accountant has stated, then PTI members who walked out of the senate are equally responsible.

IK has to look around him really for aasteen ke saanp..

Abb kuchh nahi hosakta.. Only establishment's pressure is required on SC, that too extreme pressure.. If that too doesn't work, then Martial Law.. Pakistan can't afford these parties which are hell bent on giving Pakistan a bad name internationally.

Lekin this doesn't seem possible until earth ka wire laga kar ghoomnay walay apni seat par barajamaan hain..

@PakSword just a very small example of how Nawaz & Shahbaz controls Bureaucracy:

https://www.facebook.com/

Thanks for sharing this great clip..

@Farah Sohail watch this clip, and you will know what's happening.. You asked me once why I turned down FIA's job offer when they were setting up a cyber crime cell some years back.. My friends who joined FIA, SECP, SBP and AGP later realized what kind of shitholes these places are to work in.. many have already left Pakistan, a couple are left who are desperately trying to leave..

=====================================

Kamran Shahid bhi pagal hai.. kal PMLN aur PPPP ke log law main amendment kardainge ke MNA/ MPA agal qatal e aam main mulawis hon, lekin unhain "chay" awam vote dede tou unhain 2 months ki saza se ziada nahi honi chahiey..

PTI walk out karjaegi.. qanoon pass hojaega.. Judiciary haath baandh kar kahegi ke law banana parliament ki zimmedari hai, hamara kaam law ke mutabiq faislay karna hai..

hum sab log yahan PDF pe wavela kartay phiraingay.. bass..

 

[fatman17]

THE GREATEST LEADERS:
Lead from behind
Stay cool under pressure
Set an example
Respect others
Are humble
Keep it real
Work hard
Are ethical

 

[litman]

salute to kamran shahid for openly saying the truth in the face of a killer.

If this law has been passed by the difference of one vote, as @The Accountant has stated, then PTI members who walked out of the senate are equally responsible.

IK has to look around him really for aasteen ke saanp..

Abb kuchh nahi hosakta.. Only establishment's pressure is required on SC, that too extreme pressure.. If that too doesn't work, then Martial Law.. Pakistan can't afford these parties which are hell bent on giving Pakistan a bad name internationally.

Lekin this doesn't seem possible until earth ka wire laga kar ghoomnay walay apni seat par barajamaan hain..



Thanks for sharing this great clip..

@Farah Sohail watch this clip, and you will know what's happening.. You asked me once why I turned down FIA's job offer when they were setting up a cyber crime cell some years back.. My friends who joined FIA, SECP, SBP and AGP later realized what kind of shitholes these places are to work in.. many have already left Pakistan, a couple are left who are desperately trying to leave..

=====================================

Kamran Shahid bhi pagal hai.. kal PMLN aur PPPP ke log law main amendment kardainge ke MNA/ MPA agal qatal e aam main mulawis hon, lekin unhain "chay" awam vote dede tou unhain 2 months ki saza se ziada nahi honi chahiey..

PTI walk out karjaegi.. qanoon pass hojaega.. Judiciary haath baandh kar kahegi ke law banana parliament ki zimmedari hai, hamara kaam law ke mutabiq faislay karna hai..

hum sab log yahan PDF pe wavela kartay phiraingay.. bass..

next election main vote phir be PML N ko dain gay chawal ki aik plate kay peechay. jaisi qaum wasay leader.

 

[fatman17]

 

[QatariPrince]

 

[The Accountant]

The reasons are malafide intentions ...

Why not applicable?

Do you remember the remarks of some judges when Khuwaja Haris was arguing about the period of DQ? They said that what does law say about the period, on which Kh. Haris (as I remember correctly) said that it wasn't specified.

So, as far as I understand, this amendment has been passed as a clarification rather than a complete change. Question of retrospective application of it or not isn't relevant now. It is not like, earlier the law specifically stated that DQ is "for life" or DQ is "for 50 years" and this period has been amended to DQ is "for 5 years". Had this been the case, the law couldn't have been applied retrospectively.

Tou aaj ka din mithai khanay ka hai.. gulab jaman mangwaein aur apnay sugar level main izafa karain..



Not just because of political issues involved, but because of the SC's own remarks/ questions on the period span of DQ on the basis of article 62. Now the clarification has been included, what's the reason for SC to strike it down?

 

[Farah Sohail]

Mujhe bilkol samajh nahi aaraha ke 5 yr disquakification.par koi baat kiun nahi karraha? Everyone is focussed on party leadership..clause..

Is Imran khan even aware of it? Newspapers main bhi 5 yr disqualification ka zikr nahi hai.dunya news main sub heading main zikr hai lekin. Detail main nahi.. Ye kia chakkar hai? Kal geo tv par bhi ye 5 yr wala clause dekha tha...main ne.. Dunya ki headline main bhi zikr hai.. Kia sab ..is 5 yr walay clause ko jaan boojh kar chupaa rahay hain?

Kia..kal sab khatam hogaya? No hope left..now? SC ke verdict ka koi faida nahi hua? I watched a segment of Kamran Khan's prog yesterday where he talked abt this bill... Its confirmed now..tht disqualification period has been reduced to 5 yrs.. It means...ke NS wapis aajayega.. ..panama verdict ka koi faida nahi hua? Sab khatam?

Sab se bari baat..why isnt PTI talking abt it? Does Imran Khan even know..abt this 5 yr disqualification period..clause..passed in bill yesterday?

@PakSword @Realistic Change @The Accountant @Shane @Arsalan

 

[Arsalan]

Mujhe bilkol samajh nahi aaraha ke 5 yr disquakification.par koi baat kiun nahi karraha? Everyone is focussed on party leadership..clause..

Is Imran khan even aware of it? Newspapers main bhi 5 yr disqualification ka zikr nahi hai.dunya news main sub heading main zikr hai lekin. Detail main nahi.. Ye kia chakkar hai? Kal geo tv par bhi ye 5 yr wala clause dekha tha...main ne.. Dunya ki headline main bhi zikr hai.. Kia sab ..is 5 yr walay clause ko jaan boojh kar chupaa rahay hain?

View attachment 427165

Kia..kal sab khatam hogaya? No hope left..now? SC ke verdict ka koi faida nahi hua? I watched a segment of Kamran Khan's prog yesterday where he talked abt this bill... Its confirmed now..tht disqualification period has been reduced to 5 yrs.. It means...ke NS wapis aajayega.. ..panama verdict ka koi faida nahi hua? Sab khatam?

Sab se bari baat..why isnt PTI talking abt it? Does Imran Khan even know..abt this 5 yr disqualification period..clause..passed in bill yesterday?

@PakSword @Realistic Change @The Accountant @Shane @Arsalan

Its not like that. Such a bill wont have any future. Wait and see!

 

[Farah Sohail]

Its not like that. Such a bill wont have any future. Wait and see!

Only..if such clauses of this bill are challenged in SC..then there are chances that SC Might strike it down.. But seems Imran Khan isnt even aware of this 5 yr disqualification period clause... No one is raising it anywhere.. Aso media..seems only focussed on party leadership clause of this bill.. None is actually discussing tht period of disqualification has been reduced to 5 yr.. Sirf halki si khabar aayi hai..

I dont think Imran Khan is aware of it.. Some PTI senators were absent during the voting..so they facilitated passing of this bill by their absence... Dont know..if PTI senators have made Imran khan aware of this clause tht disqualification period reduced now..

Agar koi SC main ..iss disqualification period walay clause ko challenge hi nahi karay ga..tu SC kaisy strike down karay gi?

 

[Arsalan]

I am as much happy as people living in NA 120. I will vote for this guy in future:

Naraz na hona bahi, but surprised by the extent of lack of faith and pessimism. It is HOPE that drives us forward. It always have been. DONT LOSE THAT. Please.

Only..if such clauses of this bill are challenged in SC..then there are chances that SC Might strike it down.. But seems Imran Khan isnt even aware of this 5 yr disqualification period clause... No one is raising it anywhere.. Aso media..seems only focussed on party leadership clause of this bill.. None is actually discussing tht period of disqualification has been reduced to 5 yr.. Sirf halki si khabar aayi hai..

I dont think Imran Khan is aware of it.. Some PTI senators were absent during the voting..so they facilitated passing of this bill by their absence... Dont know..if PTI senators have made Imran khan aware of this clause tht disqualification period reduced now..

Agar koi SC main ..iss disqualification period walay clause ko challenge hi nahi karay ga..tu SC kaisy strike down karay gi?

They will! You should not expect them or anyone to make all the thing right in minutes or hours or even days or months. Will take time but the bill as i said wont have any future.