Panama Case - Post Verdict Discussion and Updates

[Realistic Change]

Yes.. But judges said tht monitoring judge..trial par asar andaaz nahi honge.. But in their earlier verdict they had written this:

The Hon’ble Chief Justice of Pakistan is requested to nominate an Hon’ble Judge of this Court to supervise and monitor implementation of this judgment in letter and spirit and oversee the proceedings conducted by the NAB and the Accountability Court in the above matters.

Tday they restricted the role of monitoring judge by saying ke monitoring judge..kuch nahi karein ge.. Trial par bhi influence kisi tarah se nahi honge.. Only broad guidelines.... In effect they were saying tht monitoring judge only had to ensure time line of proceedings..

While in their verdict they siad tht monitoring judge had to ensure tht verdict is implemented in letter and spirit and also oversee proceedings conducted by NAB AND Accountability court..

So surely..meeting timeline was not the only job of monitoring judge, as per original verdict.. But this is what they were implying today.. Who will ensure tht NAB doesnt play tricks and deliberately hide evidence? Doesnt this come in..ensuring tht verdict is implemented in letter and spirit? But today judges had a totally different interpretation of..what monitoring judge will do..which was totally opposite..to what they had originally written...

Its like..th ttakly rstricted the role of monitoring judge today... And this monitoring judge was the most crucial aspect of this verdict.. Sharifs knew tht they couldnt get disqualification reversed.. What they hoped for..is to ...get relief on this monitoring aspect.. But now..even if...judges doesnt reverse their decision..on monitoring judge..but effectively restrict it..to only ensuring/ meeting time lines..and nothing else....then ..this is the best relief PML N could hope for..



Hainnn?? kia waqayi??? Lekin aaj subah tu Ansar Abbasi ki story...bilkol opposite thee.. Woh tu establishment ki taraf..as usual...refer karrahay thay..
Ye monitoring judge wali story ke inhon ne hudaibya reopen karaaya......kisi aur channel par bhi aarahi hai? Kahin geo...as usual... PML N ko propaganda ka mauqa tu nahi dema chah raha ke dekhein SC..kitni ziadti karrahi hai aur monitoring judge..unfair hain.ye cases open karaa rahay hain.......ke kal SC main jaa kar phir se monitoring judge par phir shor machayein? Jaisy whats app wali story par shor machaaya tha

Aur agar J Ijazul Ahsan ne yeh hudaibya open karaaya hai.... tu phir Sheikh Rashid ki application..SC ke bench ke saamnay aanay ka maqsad? J Ijaz ul Ahsan tu khud..iss bench ka part hain... Agar unhon ne open karaa hi diya tha ya orders diye thay..tu unhein tu obviously pata hi hai ke hudaibya open horaha hai...phir ye Sheikh Rashid ki application..iss bench ke saamnay kiun aati? Phir zuroorat hi nahi thee..sheih Rashid ki application hearing ke liye fix honay ki...?

Agar koi aur channel bhi ye story share karay tu batayye ga zuroor...

Waisy agar tu J Ijaz ul Ahsan..ne waqayi yeh karaaya hai..tu phir tu bhtt hi acha hai.aur phir saari shikaayat door..... Iska matlab hoga ke Justice Khosa..aaj humein aisy hi daraa rahay thay.. But we need to be sure abt this story.. Geo par is silsilay main bilkol bharosa nahin kiyaa jaa sakta

Relief for $har family is NOT even a distant possibility.

 

[Dil Pakistan]

Yes.. But judges said tht monitoring judge..trial par asar andaaz nahi honge.. But in their earlier verdict they had written this:

The Hon’ble Chief Justice of Pakistan is requested to nominate an Hon’ble Judge of this Court to supervise and monitor implementation of this judgment in letter and spirit and oversee the proceedings conducted by the NAB and the Accountability Court in the above matters.

Tday they restricted the role of monitoring judge by saying ke monitoring judge..kuch nahi karein ge.. Trial par bhi influence kisi tarah se nahi honge.. Only broad guidelines.... In effect they were saying tht monitoring judge only had to ensure time line of proceedings..

While in their verdict they siad tht monitoring judge had to ensure tht verdict is implemented in letter and spirit and also oversee proceedings conducted by NAB AND Accountability court..

So surely..meeting timeline was not the only job of monitoring judge, as per original verdict.. But this is what they were implying today.. Who will ensure tht NAB doesnt play tricks and deliberately hide evidence? Doesnt this come in..ensuring tht verdict is implemented in letter and spirit? But today judges had a totally different interpretation of..what monitoring judge will do..which was totally opposite..to what they had originally written...

Its like..th totally restricted the role of monitoring judge today... And this monitoring judge was the most crucial aspect of this verdict.. Sharifs knew tht they couldnt get disqualification reversed.. What they hoped for..is to ...get relief on this monitoring aspect.. But now..even if...judges doesnt reverse their decision..on monitoring judge..but effectively restrict it..to only ensuring/ meeting time lines..and nothing else....then ..this is the best relief PML N could hope for..



Hainnn?? kia waqayi??? Lekin aaj subah tu Ansar Abbasi ki story...bilkol opposite thee.. Woh tu establishment ki taraf..as usual...refer karrahay thay..
Ye monitoring judge wali story ke inhon ne hudaibya reopen karaaya......kisi aur channel par bhi aarahi hai? Kahin geo...as usual... PML N ko propaganda ka mauqa tu nahi dema chah raha ke dekhein SC..kitni ziadti karrahi hai aur monitoring judge..unfair hain.ye cases open karaa rahay hain.......ke kal SC main jaa kar phir se monitoring judge par phir shor machayein? Jaisy whats app wali story par shor machaaya tha

Aur agar J Ijazul Ahsan ne yeh hudaibya open karaaya hai.... tu phir Sheikh Rashid ki application..SC ke bench ke saamnay aanay ka maqsad? J Ijaz ul Ahsan tu khud..iss bench ka part hain... Agar unhon ne open karaa hi diya tha ya orders diye thay..tu unhein tu obviously pata hi hai ke hudaibya open horaha hai...phir ye Sheikh Rashid ki application..iss bench ke saamnay kiun aati? Phir zuroorat hi nahi thee..sheih Rashid ki application hearing ke liye fix honay ki...?

Agar koi aur channel bhi ye story share karay tu batayye ga zuroor...

Waisy agar tu J Ijaz ul Ahsan..ne waqayi yeh karaaya hai..tu phir tu bhtt hi acha hai.aur phir saari shikaayat door..... Iska matlab hoga ke Justice Khosa..aaj humein aisy hi daraa rahay thay.. But we need to be sure abt this story.. Geo par is silsilay main bilkol bharosa nahin kiyaa jaa sakta

@Farah Sohail and @PakSword

What SC is judges are doing is, what we call as: "by the law".

They cannot go above and beyond the constitution, this is their limitation. Yet, they are doing everything they can.

Shareef family is making the hole deeper, that they managed to dug in the last 12-months or so. SC is allowing them to do that.

The game has really not begun as yet. It will begin when the trials will start. Until then SC has two objectives:

1). Do not give Shareefs a chance to say that they are facing injustice and run away.
2). Do not allow NAB to make weak cases that will be lost when they go in the court.

In the hearing of petition, file by Shareefs, the judges are ensuring point-1 above.
The monitoring judge is making sure about point number-2 above.

All the remarks of the judges yesterday and today revolve around these two points.

Rest assured that good will come - inshaALLAH

 

[Salik]

This is supplementary post to my previous comment. In which I said what would Nawaz Shareer do if Kulsoom Nawaz won the election. He would scream further and damage his throat.

Those who want to see more fun, let her (Kulsoom Nawaz) win the election. Her victory will give new life to PML N, and enhanced pain for Shareer family. You know new skin and more pain and then new skin and more pain..

If they lose humiliation is already for them, if they win then enjoy the show.

 

[Farah Sohail]

We have been through a lot and still we share the same state of mind like before, shows the regrettable history of our judicial system and the preceding lot of judges responsible for it.

Will they explain their judgment further? Yes indeed.

True,...... I agree with you 100% its our history which is full of NROs tht makes us hopeless again and again.. Once we see...full justice being served in this case..tht is entire family ending up in jail..only then..we will be hopeful for the future tht yes....our justice system can punish powerful.. Disqualification is nothing compared.to their crimes...if it was a case of ordinary ppl..they would have been rotting in jail by now.. But this family is comfortably sitting in UK.... I sincerely hope and pray tht ...for once..we will see justice being served fully....

2). Do not allow NAB to make weak cases that will be lost when they go in the court.

The monitoring judge is making sure about point number-2 above.

@bold Sincerely hoping for this

 

[Shane]

Tday they restricted the role of monitoring judge by saying ke monitoring judge..kuch nahi karein ge.. Trial par bhi influence kisi tarah se nahi honge.. Only broad guidelines.... In effect they were saying tht monitoring judge only had to ensure time line of proceedings..

While in their verdict they siad tht monitoring judge had to ensure tht verdict is implemented in letter and spirit and also oversee proceedings conducted by NAB AND Accountability court..

So surely..meeting timeline was not the only job of monitoring judge, as per original verdict.. But this is what they were implying today.. Who will ensure tht NAB doesnt play tricks and deliberately hide evidence? Doesnt this come in..ensuring tht verdict is implemented in letter and spirit? But today judges had a totally different interpretation of..what monitoring judge will do..which was totally opposite..to what they had originally written...

Its like..th totally restricted the role of monitoring judge today... And this monitoring judge was the most crucial aspect of this verdict..

Correct me if I'm wrong but you are overlooking the rest of the process that usually starts after accountability court verdict as in: appeal in high court, then supreme court and review. So the monitoring Judge's orders and or observations and even docile oversight of accountability court is perceived to be no small measure and therefore, we see the complaint and arguments against it by the defence.

I hope the 5 member bench asks CJP to form an implementation bench on hudaibya or at least clarify that monitoring Judge's is also to monitor Hudaibya case.

 

[Farah Sohail]

I hope the 5 member bench asks CJP to form an implementation bench on hudaibya or at least clarify that monitoring Judge's is also to monitor Hudaibya case.

I dont know..if its the jurisdiction of this 5 member bench to ask CJ to form implementation bench overr hudaibya and include it along with other panama references..under supervision of monitoring judge

OR
The bench tht will actually hear appeal by NAB on hudaibya..i think THAT bench which will eventually hear appeal by NAB to reverse LHC decision on hudaibya.will have the authority to direct anything on hudaibya case..and form implementation bench or under supervision of monitoring judge.

I dont think..this 5 member panama case bench can issue any such directions.. Abhi tu pehle appeal decide honi hai.we know SC or atleast this bench is desperate to open hudaibya..but pehle appeal ka verdict aayega aur uske sath directions hosakti hai..

Sheikh arashid has just asked this bench tht why hasnt NAB filed appeal on hudaibya yet..when they promised b4 the SC? Now..i dont know..tht NAB has already announced tht its filing appeal on hudaibya in SC timorrow..what will Sheikh Rashid argue? Or his case will be withdrawn simply? I sooooo hope th even if nothing comes out of it,,Sheikh Rashid should still give arguments tomorrow in his case regarding role of NAB...and he even talks abt panama references tht how NAB is hand in gloves with sharifs..

 

[Shane]

Now..i dont know..tht NAB has already announced tht its filing appeal on hudaibya in SC timorrow..what will Sheikh Rashid argue? Or his case will be withdrawn simply? I sooooo hope th even if nothing comes out of it,,Sheikh Rashid should still give arguments tomorrow in his case regarding role of NAB...and he even talks abt panama references tht how NAB is hand in gloves with sharifs..

I think SRA should argue that NAB is dragging its feet on reopening, justice delayed is justice denied, and so SC should monitor NAB on reopening this case. I just adore his Shaart and Saweet killer of arguments in court.

 

[Farah Sohail]

I think SRA should argue that NAB is dragging its feet on reopening, justice delayed is justice denied, and so SC should monitor NAB on reopening this case. I just adore his Shaart and Saweet killer of arguments in court.

Even i love his arguments.. Shaaart and saweet..lolll...

He must plead his case tomorrow..rather than just withdrawing it... If not anything else.. We will get some more observations from SC on NAB.. Sheikh Rashid must argue tht how crucial is role of monitoring judge in all this process.. Judges must listen to the other side of arguments too..on monitoring judge........Lets see..what judges respond on monitoring judge'role then ..IF SRA brings up this point.. I soo hope, he does..

 

[El_Swordsmen]

dr. shahid masood said there's been intense dispute between nawaz & shahbaz in London ... & hamza argued too any inside info you have @Realistic Change

 

[Shane]

Even i love his arguments.. Shaaart and saweet..lolll...

He must plead his case tomorrow..rather than just withdrawing it... If not anything else.. We will get some more observations from SC on NAB.. Sheikh Rashid must argue tht how crucial is role of monitoring judge in all this process.. Judges must listen to the other side of arguments too..on monitoring judge........Lets see..what judges respond on monitoring judge'role then ..IF SRA brings up this point.. I soo hope, he does..

I think that's the whole point of his petition to get the bench to climb onto the shoulders of NAB and get things done properly.

 

[Farah Sohail]

I think that's the whole point of his petition to get the bench to climb onto the shoulders of NAB and get things done properly.

Yes.. I think so too..

Pata chalay ke judges main se hi koi na yeh keh dey ke SRA ab tu aap ki application ka koi faida nahi... Ab tu NAB hudaibya case file karrahi hai..ya kar chuki hai.. Agar NAB ne kuch ziada efficiency dikhaanay koshish ki aur subah subah hi kar diya.. Even if any judge says this. SRA must insist on arguing his case

 

[Verve]

The Wicked side of mine wants Kalsoom Nawaz to win so that Maryam gets back in PM house, and then Kalsoom gets disqualified in Hudabiya case and Maryam leaves PM house yet again!

 

[Realistic Change]

dr. shahid masood said there's been intense dispute between nawaz & shahbaz in London ... & hamza argued too any inside info you have @Realistic Change

The below post of last week and week before has some elements of what you are referring to.

Now I hope you guys (@PakSword @Verve @El_Swordsmen @Farah Sohail @mingle and @Moonlight) believe about the groupings in PMLN that I had been saying since April 2017; after hearing Nisar's interview - it cannot get any clearer than this. Only thing more clearer can be if Shahbaz says exactly what Nisar stated, but he will never do that as he still has an outside chance to become PM.

Issue in NA120 is that Shahbaz's handpicked Maula Jutts of Bureaucracy are still helping Kulsoom, as irony is that Shahbaz can't afford her losing nor winning - total catch 22 for him.

In last dinner at Jati Umra that failed to convince Hamza (read Shahbaz) and where someone else was more vocal re the mess that Nawaz has created - yes, it was the same person who Maryam & Kulsoom hates like anything, and after dinner meeting was attended by entire $har clan, Nawaz family complained that Shahbaz family has representation in both Provincial and National Assembly; and even if this ticket is given to Shahbaz then what is our role (exact words were "tou hum boriya bistar utha ke kahin chaley jatey hain, aap hi karein hakumat and sambhalien party bhi ").

If everything pans out as I am envisioning based on tons of meetings and information on my Pakistan and London's visits in last few weeks, there will be a splinter group as well; which will fly away as well. It's not about Nawaz family being history; now the choice for present MNA's and MPA's is to chose which of the three options to exercise.

So all in all Rigging and Blatant Rigging is only way out of Dilon or whatever @mingle says ki party is over, they will lose UCs in PP140 around 70%, while in PP139 it is 60% PML - btw Maryam has been told by my friend (and her first cousin) explicitly that PML is going to lose this seat - For Sure!

It's all mixture of jahalat, being bullied, bought out, pressured, blackmailed, and rigging.

As for NA-120, last time in Ayaz Sadiq's by election; 18,500 votes (selected UC) were struck down/transferred and disabled. Margin of official victory was ~3,500.

In this election 29,000 are dubious, while till yesterday final lists of ~12,000 were selected to be disabled. This time disabled/transferred votes will not be more than few hundreds from each UC; to not raise any red flags.

Police Muqabla Chief Architect ex IGP Punjab is spearheading the control rooms setup for this election.

If PTI remains as lax as in bringing voters from home to polling stations like it was in 2013 then result will be only a widened margin of victory for Kulsoom.

Only person in PTI of interior city Lahore who understand constituency/voting politics is Aleem Dar - rest of the other ones like Hammad, Waleed and even Shafqat are too shareef for hooligans of PMLN.

However, the gravity of situation (from $harif's POV) can be partly assessed by the fact that party winning this seat since 25 years, the Chacha (Correction Taya) had to beg the Bhateja to run the campaign - even then Bhateja flew away in first class to London

And daughter is begging for votes on the basis of her old and ailing mother and not on the "development" of PMLN in its 36 years of cumulative rule in Provincial and Federal level. What a pity!

 

[mingle]

The Wicked side of mine wants Kalsoom Nawaz to win so that Maryam gets back in PM house, and then Kalsoom gets disqualified in Hudabiya case and Maryam leaves PM house yet again!

That would be fun .This blue whale Maryam is sole responsible of NS political demise

 

[QatariPrince]

نگران جج اور جے آئی ٹی سے متعلق خواجہ حارث کے دلائل اپناتا ہوں،سلمان اکرم راجا
کیپٹن ریٹائرڈ صفدرکا بھی وکیل میں ہی ہوں، سلمان اکرم راجا
عدالت نےکیپٹن ریٹائرڈصفدرکیخلاف ریفرنس دائرکرنیکاحکم دیاہے، سلمان اکرم راجا
کیپٹن ریٹائرڈصفدر کا لندن فلیٹ سے کوئی تعلق نہیں، سلمان اکرم راجا
کیپٹن صفدر کا کچھ نہ کچھ تعلق ضرور ہے،جسٹس آصف کھوسہ
یہ بات درست نہیں ہے کہ کیپٹن ریٹائرڈ صفدر کا کوئی تعلق نہیں، جسٹس اعجاز افضل
کیپٹن ریٹائرڈ صفدر نے ٹرسٹ ڈیڈ سے متعلق بیان دیا ہے، جسٹس آصف کھوسہ
انکوائری ہونی چاہیے تھی ریفرنس کا کیوں کہہ دیا، سلمان اکرم راجا
کیپٹن ریٹائرڈ صفدر مریم نواز کے شوہر ہیں، عدالت
یہ مناسب نہ ہوتا کہ ہم اس مرحلے پر کوئی آبزرویشن دے دیتے، عدالت
جے آئی ٹی رپورٹ میں کیپٹن ریٹائرڈ صفدر کا فلیٹ سے تعلق سامنے نہیں آیا، سلمان اکرم راجا
کیپٹن ریٹائرڈصفدر نے بطور گواہ ٹرسٹ ڈیڈ پر دستخط کیے، سلمان اکرم راجا
معاملے کی تحقیقات ہونے دی جائے، جسٹس کھوسہ
برٹش ورجن آئی لینڈ نے مریم نواز کو مالک قرار دیا، جسٹس اعجاز افضل
جے آئی ٹی رپورٹ کے مطابق مریم نواز لندن فلیٹ کی بینیفیشل مالک ہے،جسٹس کھوسہ
مریم نواز نے پہلے لندن فلیٹ کے تعلق سے انکار کیا تھا،جسٹس آصف کھوسہ
ریفرنس فائل ہونے سے کیپٹن ریٹائرڈ صفدر کے بنیادی حقوق متاثر ہوں گے، سلمان اکرم
یقین دلاتے ہیں کہ شفاف ٹرائل پر سمجھوتا نہیں ہو گا، جسٹس عظمت سعید
وعدہ کرتےہیں ٹرائل متاثرنہیں ہونے دینگے،اس سے متعلق فیصلے میں لکھیں گے، عدالت
ضمانت کےکیسز میں بھی لکھتے ہیں کہ ٹرائل کورٹ آزادانہ کام کرے، جسٹس عظمت
ہم نظر ثانی کی دوسرے فریق سے امید کر رہے تھے، جسٹس عظمت
ہم نے فیصلہ لکھنے میں احتیاط برتی، جسٹس آصف سعید کھوسہ
آپ ہم پر اعتماد کیوں نہیں کرتے؟ جسٹس عظمت کا سلمان اکرم راجا سے سوال
بنیادی حقوق اور آئین کے تحفظ کا حلف اٹھا رکھا ہے، جسٹس عظمت
کیا آپ کو بیان حلفی دیں پھر یقین کریں گے؟ جسٹس عظمت سعید
ٹرائل کورٹ شواہد کی بنیاد پر فیصلہ کرے گی، جسٹس اعجاز افضل
نواز شریف کے بچوں کے وکیل سلمان اکرم راجا کے دلائل مکمل

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شیخ رشیداحمد کے حدیبیہ کیس سے متعلق درخواست پر دلائل شروع
کیا حدیبیہ پیپر ملز کے سے متعلق تحریری حکم جاری ہوا، جسٹس کھوسہ کا سوال
نیب نے عدالت میں کہا تھا کہ ایک ہفتے میں اپیل دائر کریں گے، شیخ رشید
عدالت میں بیان دے کر نیب حکام مکر گئے، شیخ رشید
ادارے ٹھیک ہوں تو جمہوریت کو کوئی خطرہ نہیں، شیخ رشید
آپ کی اولاد بھی ملک میں سر اٹھا کر چلے گی، شیخ رشید کا ججز سے مکالمہ
حکومت اپوزیشن لیڈر بھی اپنی مرضی کا لگاتی ہے، شیخ رشید
حدیبیہ کیس ہی تمام جرائم کی ماں ہے،شیخ رشید
حدیبیہ سے ہی فلیٹ سمیت تمام مقدمات نکلے، شیخ رشید
عدالتی فیصلوں کے خلاف پولیس کو سادہ کپڑوں میں سڑکوں پر لایا گیا، شیخ
رشید
ایل این جی اسکینڈل میں 200 ارب روپے کا گھپلا ہے،شیخ رشید
الزامات نہ لگائیں، جسٹس آصف سعید کھوسہ کی شیخ رشید کو ہدایت
سپریم کورٹ نے پراسیکیوٹر جنرل کو طلب کر لیا
شیخ رشید نے مجھے بھی درخواست میں نہیں بخشا،پراسیکیوٹر جنرل نیب
ایک ہفتے میں اپیل دائر کرانے کی یقین دہانی کراتا ہوں، پراسیکیوٹر جنرل نیب

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پاناما کیس میں نظر ثانی اپیلوں کی سماعت مکمل ، فیصلہ گیارہ بجے سنایا جائیگا​

عدالت 11بجے دوبارہ بیٹھے گی، سپریم کورٹ
پراسیکیوٹر نے یقین دہانی کرائی ہےکہ7دن میں اپیل دائرکردیں گے،عدالت
اس دوران مشاورت کرینگے کہ کارروائی کو کیسے آگے بڑھائیں، سپریم کورٹ​