Palestinians prepare for 'Great Return' March in West Bank and Gaza: Main thread

[HAIDER]

Religion is opium of mankind ....

 

[Falcon29]

Because they want the narrative to be 'wittle israel under attack' not israel murders unarmed Palestinians protesting israel turning Gaza into a prison camp


If hamas really want to push this and hurt israel


1-Unarmed protest
2-Ask for freedom from israeli control of sea/air etc

This promise land asking for too many promises ..

They have a target bank for awhile now but doing the targeting in last few days leading up to the planned demonstration. Israel definitely knows where some tunnels are because of surveillance, informants, etc.... They exaggerate the cost that goes into them and how important they are, Hamas doesn't need them. So expect more air strikes through these few remaining days to try causing a distraction from the demonstrations. Hamas will ignore the escalation and allow the Palestinians to continue their demonstrations.

They are transmitting messages through Egypt for Palestinians to disarm in exchange for slightly relieving the blockade, not even lifting it, they have no intentions to end the conflict.

 

[hussain0216]

What the Palestinians have to remember is that they have the numbers and the numbers are increasing


Strange thing is that the arab despot regimes from the Egyptians to the Saudis want an end to the Palestinian issue so they can get in with their covert relationship with israel. They are not concerned about the people but their own regimes.

Palestinians being vocal or fighting back against israel creates alot of anger on the arab street and this puts pressure on the regimes and inhibits their plans


As israel locks horns with iran now is the time for the Palestinians to use mass, non violent protest across gaza and the west bank to demand no israeli presence or control over their, land, borders, sea or sir space
Let the Israelis use violence to kill unarmed protestors and as it happens week after week, day after day the pressure grows


Israel is much happier locked in armed conflict killing "terrorists" snd using that excuse to deny palestinians their rights

The arab regimes are worthless

Go for mass non violent protest, again and again

 

[HAIDER]

They have a target bank for awhile now but doing the targeting in last few days leading up to the planned demonstration. Israel definitely knows where some tunnels are because of surveillance, informants, etc.... They exaggerate the cost that goes into them and how important they are, Hamas doesn't need them. So expect more air strikes through these few remaining days to try causing a distraction from the demonstrations. Hamas will ignore the escalation and allow the Palestinians to continue their demonstrations.

They are transmitting messages through Egypt for Palestinians to disarm in exchange for slightly relieving the blockade, not even lifting it, they have no intentions to end the conflict.

How you see the coming generation of Gaza and rest of land and why the frustration among youths is increasing day by day? . And how long Isreali or rest of neighboring arab will keep marginalizing Palastinian issue. Will it turn worst with the passage of time. ?

 

[Gomig-21]

Strange thing is that the arab despot regimes from the Egyptians to the Saudis want an end to the Palestinian issue so they can get in with their covert relationship with israel. They are not concerned about the people but their own regimes.

lol. A complete nonfactual statement void of any truth and historical reality. Where is this phantom covert relationship Egypt has with Israel? looool. Are you purposefully ignoring the peace treaty and full relations we have with them or are you conveniently ignoring it?

 

[HAIDER]

lol. A complete nonfactual statement void of any truth and historical reality. Where is this phantom covert relationship Egypt has with Israel? looool. Are you purposefully ignoring the peace treaty and full relations we have with them or are you conveniently ignoring it?

Well Egypt has full relation with Isreal, but they have Israel centric defence development. Isreali military establishment still carry the heart of Gamal Nasir with sad smile of past wounds.

 

[Gomig-21]

Well Egypt has full relation with Isreal, but they have Israel centric defence development.

Sorry, my friend. I have no idea what you mean by that. What do you mean by "centric defense development"?

Isreali military establishment still carry the heart of Gamal Nasir with sad smile of past wounds.

You lost me there too, bro. The Israeli military is still influenced by Gamal Abdel Nasser? I'm lost, ma man.

 

[Falcon29]

How you see the coming generation of Gaza and rest of land and why the frustration among youths is increasing day by day? . And how long Isreali or rest of neighboring arab will keep marginalizing Palastinian issue. Will it turn worst with the passage of time. ?

It's not gonna disappear like some suggest if Trump administration reveal so called 'peace plan' which doesn't outline anything, no borders, no mention of troop withdrawal from West Bank, etc... just a call for Palestinians who have no control on situation whatsoever to go solve the conflict. Even though the solution is in the hands of Israel, US and neighboring states, only they can enforce it. The plan however is to place onus on the Palestinians to then point at them that they are not interested in 'peace'(whatever that means), and to throw the cause into the trash bin of history....

That will only enflame situation by a lot and cause enormous regional mess. Eventually Palestinians will get frustrated and storm the border and settle in modern day Israeli cities(used to be Palestinian villages). Arab regimes, US and Israel can't play this game of refusing to advance two state solution and just donate some money for small infrastructure projects or funding the PA salaries. And claim that they are doing everything to enforce a two state solution...they aren't, we don't money or anything. Just be serious and pressure that state or pressure the US(which I believe we can do) to place forward a real document outlining two state solution....

lol. A complete nonfactual statement void of any truth and historical reality. Where is this phantom covert relationship Egypt has with Israel? looool. Are you purposefully ignoring the peace treaty and full relations we have with them or are you conveniently ignoring it?

Yeah you're correct, that is normal and Egypt is a sovereign nation, but I think Arab governments can take more effective diplomatic measures instead of claiming they have no power to influence situation. Or just summon Arab League for two hour discussion that achieves nothing. Arab states can stress to the US that they want peace summit now, this summer with US or Trump Administration plan/documents for two state solution outlining borders, land swaps and transfer of control, etc....

 

[HAIDER]

Sorry, my friend. I have no idea what you mean by that. What do you mean by "centric defense development"?



You lost me there too, bro. The Israeli military is still influenced by Gamal Abdel Nasser? I'm lost, ma man.

My dear friend ... a mistrust , now asking Egypt to accommodate Palastinian in Sinai. How you see that ?
https://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Whats-behind-the-Egyptian-Israeli-cooperation-in-Sinai-540688

It's not gonna disappear like some suggest if Trump administration reveal so called 'peace plan' which doesn't outline anything, no borders, no mention of troop withdrawal from West Bank, etc... just a call for Palestinians who have no control on situation whatsoever to go solve the conflict. Even though the solution is in the hands of Israel, US and neighboring states, only they can enforce it. The plan however is to place onus on the Palestinians to then point at them that they are not interested in 'peace'(whatever that means), and to throw the cause into the trash bin of history....

That will only enflame situation by a lot and cause enormous regional mess. Eventually Palestinians will get frustrated and storm the border and settle in modern day Israeli cities(used to be Palestinian villages). Arab regimes, US and Israel can't play this game of refusing to advance two state solution and just donate some money for small infrastructure projects or funding the PA salaries. And claim that they are doing everything to enforce a two state solution...they aren't, we don't money or anything. Just be serious and pressure that state or pressure the US(which I believe we can do) to place forward a real document outlining two state solution....



Yeah you're correct, that is normal and Egypt is a sovereign nation, but I think Arab governments can take more effective diplomatic measures instead of claiming they have no power to influence situation. Or just summon Arab League for two hour discussion that achieves nothing. Arab states can stress to the US that they want peace summit now, this summer with US or Trump Administration plan/documents for two state solution outlining borders, land swaps and transfer of control, etc....

Well I referred before, listen interview of Jerusalem mayor , where he stated no to surrender any part of holy city or part of state to Palastinian. Hardliner running the govt, where those Isreali politicians has soft corner for solution, they been sent home . Ex President Obama try to resolve the situation or diffuse the situation , but he been openly bypass and Isreali played the religious card in US. But , how you see when Isreali portray Palastinian a backward , not interested in peace or show keenness in there own people walfare or development ? ( well i am humanist and don't believe in keep a human within walls and totally against these walls. This is insult of humanbeing)

 

[Falcon29]

Well I referred before, listen interview of Jerusalem mayor , where he stated no to surrender any part of holy city or part of state to Palastinian. Hardliner running the govt, where those Isreali politicians has soft corner for solution, they been sent home . Ex President Obama try to resolve the situation or diffuse the situation , but he been openly bypass and Isreali played the religious card in US. But , how you see when Isreali portray Palastinian a backward , not interested in peace or show keenness in there own people walfare or development ? ( well i am humanist and don't believe in keep a human within walls and totally against these walls. This is insult of humanbeing)

I see it as misleading...because it is misleading .... Think about it, you can not develop at levels of a nation state under occupation. The very first achievement that need to be secured is securing your people. You need an army to protect the government, borders and function to develop the state and peoples welfare. In the West Bank, the Palestinian authority has no army, it has only security forces that Israel permits where they can even deploy in their own land. It has no control over the borders or has ability to issue infrastructure projects or economic initiatives without permission of Israel except non significant ones in areas with more Palestinian control that can only achieve getting some income to people so they can at least survive to avoid an uprising.

In Gaza, I think we understand reality there too. I've been there a lot and know well enough that Hamas has interest of the people, but Hamas also understand security is very crucial for our future. They try what they can but the blockade enforced on all borders makes it incredibly hard to develop the society on a material level. That is not slowing down the people from seeking an education, Hamas is educated and the people in Gaza are well educated and literate. Many have advanced degrees but can't do much with them due to lack of opportunities. Hamas formed many ministries in the Strip that do work effectively, they can indeed govern but because of international reaction to their control it makes it impossible.

Hamas will eventually give up control of the Strip, it wants to, but all parties involved are demanding to disarm all factions which is not gonna happen. No one trusts those parties involved, if we disarm the cause will be dismissed and ignored no matter what Fatah tries. Fatah will be given cold shoulder from its allies as well in that kind of scenario and Israel will speed up settlement process and just ignore any attempts to implement a two state solution.

 

[Gomig-21]

Yeah you're correct, that is normal and Egypt is a sovereign nation, but I think Arab governments can take more effective diplomatic measures instead of claiming they have no power to influence situation. Or just summon Arab League for two hour discussion that achieves nothing. Arab states can stress to the US that they want peace summit now, this summer with US or Trump Administration plan/documents for two state solution outlining borders, land swaps and transfer of control, etc....

Hasn't that been tried many times since Sadat offered Arafat and Hafez Al Assad to join Egypt in the peace process with the United States and was refused? Then any other time either Arabs states approached the US to help create a two-state solution has fallen on deaf ears because the US' answer is always "Israel has the final say and peace can only be achieved if the Israelis agree to it" and we know what the answer to that is.

All diplomatic efforts have been exhausted, including the last immense effort by Sisi who brought Hamas and Fatah together to approach Israel for at least a sit down, and when Netanyahu saw that was something he would have a tough time refusing on legitimate grounds, he accuses the effort of being fake and then suddenly we get the US embassy announcement which all but killed the huge, momentous effort. So diplomacy will never work with the US and this was proof in the pudding.

What needs to be done is a complete, Arab boycott of the US to send the message and that would have dire consequences to those involved that you would have to ask yourself the honest and brutally hard question: would you risk that for a Palestinian state if you were in the other's shoe?

My dear friend ... a mistrust , now asking Egypt to accommodate Palastinian in Sinai. How you see that ?
https://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Whats-behind-the-Egyptian-Israeli-cooperation-in-Sinai-540688

Yeah that's not going to happen, and not because the Palestinians are not welcome as some might try to twist it into, but because that goes against everything that is the cause of Palestinian sovereignty and let's the Israelis off the hook. It's about as wet of a dream as can be and even the Palestinians would never agree to such a ridiculous thing. The rest about Israelis conducting airstrikes in Sinai with Egyptian permission and knowledge...I think we can safely assume that a couple of ISIS cretins seeing unmarked Egyptian UAVs dropping bombs and using that to claim they were Israelis is all that needs to be said about that.

 

[hussain0216]

What needs to be done is a complete, Arab boycott of the US to send the message and that would have dire consequences to those involved that you would have to ask yourself the honest and brutally hard question: would you risk that for a Palestinian state if you were in the other's shoe?

For this you need new leadership

But you arabs have same old same old

 

[Falcon29]

Hasn't that been tried many times since Sadat offered Arafat and Hafez Al Assad to join Egypt in the peace process with the United States and was refused? Then any other time either Arabs states approached the US to help create a two-state solution has fallen on deaf ears because the US' answer is always "Israel has the final say and peace can only be achieved if the Israelis agree to it" and we know what the answer to that is.

All diplomatic efforts have been exhausted, including the last immense effort by Sisi who brought Hamas and Fatah together to approach Israel for at least a sit down, and when Netanyahu saw that was something he would have a tough time refusing on legitimate grounds, he accuses the effort of being fake and then suddenly we get the US embassy announcement which all but killed the huge, momentous effort. So diplomacy will never work with the US and this was proof in the pudding.

What needs to be done is a complete, Arab boycott of the US to send the message and that would have dire consequences to those involved that you would have to ask yourself the honest and brutally hard question: would you risk that for a Palestinian state if you were in the other's shoe?

We live in a unique time, Arab states are largely important allies of the US whereas in the past they were aligned with the Soviet Union to an extent. Me personally I would take the risk not just for this case but others depending on the state of the region and options I have. But I don't think we need to go that far as to boycott the US to get their attention. We can keep pressing them on the issue and warning them of diplomatic and other steps we might take on a local basis due to domestic demand/pressure if it isn't taken seriously. Some simpler steps could be reopening charity funds to Palestinians that have been shut down at US request. I could think of more but you get my drift... at the same time we could encourage Israel to consider two state solution or request of it border lines or conditions through diplomatic channels. Keep it simple and non hostile but just make sure the other side understands its a priority.

I don't see the US abandoning or punishing its allies over that.

For this you need new leadership

But you arabs have same old same old

Israel is threatening to launch an aerial assault against Hamas if the demonstrators manage to cross the border and march in the buffer zone area and return when its over. Keep in mind this isn't Hamas's idea, it was proposed by a Palestinian technocrat earlier. Hamas is just allowing the people and organization to go through with it. Medical teams are being setup at the border and people will donate blood and more health sites are being setup for Tuesday. If they manage to cross the border, it is possible Israel will target training sites(which should be empty) heavily across the Strip. So there could be dozens of sorties and possibly hundreds of air strikes that day. Hamas should be preparing to evacuate all important sites and prepare their weapons just incase they start targeting homes or other buildings.

How do you think they should deal with this threat coming up? Also assuming people get in and cross, should they demonstrate in Israel streets or erect tents there or what? I believe they should march if they manage to get in unarmed of course and likely Israeli army will not resort to lethal force but will erect sort of human siege(they will setup roadblocks but those can be penetrated still) around them kind of like in the West Bank. So they will be limited but it will raise attention around the cause. If Israeli's do use massive lethal force I'm not sure at that point should Hamas and other Palestinian factions intervene. What do you guys think?

 

[Gomig-21]

We live in a unique time, Arab states are largely important allies of the US whereas in the past they were aligned with the Soviet Union to an extent. Me personally I would take the risk not just for this case but others depending on the state of the region and options I have. But I don't think we need to go that far as to boycott the US to get their attention. We can keep pressing them on the issue and warning them of diplomatic and other steps we might take on a local basis due to domestic demand/pressure if it isn't taken seriously. Some simpler steps could be reopening charity funds to Palestinians that have been shut down at US request. I could think of more but you get my drift... at the same time we could encourage Israel to consider two state solution or request of it border lines or conditions through diplomatic channels. Keep it simple and non hostile but just make sure the other side understands its a priority.

I don't see the US abandoning or punishing its allies over that.

How many times have we been there and done that and it's failed? None of the diplomacy on that level has even drawn the US' attention in a strong sense with perhaps the exception of the Oslo Accords during the Bill Clinton administration and then Yishak Rabin gets assassinated by a fanatical Israeli Jew to bring it to a screeching halt.

I can write a super long post and list every single attempt at some diplomacy of some type that involved the US and every single one of them has failed, but this post will be 3 pages long. But in case anyone is interested, here's a basic Wikipedia list of attempts and every single one of them failed as we know.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli–Palestinian_peace_process

Look at the history of the Egypt/Israeli conflict; what brought them to the table to finally withdraw from occupied Egyptian territory? A major war (something that seems to be the only thing that has an effect on them, or that they understand, especially when they're beaten in it) then that forced them to the table and eventually full withdrawal from the Sinai and a peace treaty.

Terrorism, violence, intafadas etc. and definitely peaceful protests will never achieve anything and will only strengthen the Israelis position and especially their support by the United States.

Your suggestions are simply too minor to have any effect on the US and if anything, especially with this current bully of an administration. It might make matters worst since they get offended easily and take names and cut aid to those who support any slim actions against Israel, let alone the US such as moving the stupid embassy to Jerusalem.

The only thing that is going to work is something powerful enough.
- Egypt, Saudiya, UAE and Turkey (and only those 4 since any others don't hold any strong strategic or regional or economic influence in the region that would impact the US' decision making process) need to lay down conditions for the creation of a two-state solution and put in diplomatic language that if Israel and the US do not agree to come to the table that these 4 countries would slowly and effectively end all diplomatic and economic relations with both, the US and Israel until a solution is found. This is how aggressive a push needs to be to have any kind of impact and then think of not only the consequences these 4 countries would suffer as a result, but if they would even be willing to embark on a such a suicide mission. Forget about even being on the same page but more importantly is if there is even enough commonality between these 4 countries in the first place to have the unity that would be agreeable and strong enough. Egypt & Turkey most definitely not, so that's probably out the door which only leaves the other two or they go it without Turkey.

Egypt has done the most out of those 4 for a two-state solution (in terms of pushing and trying to move the two-state process,) the last one by Sisi that I had previously mentioned only to be spat at. People don't realize how huge that was, to have Hamas give up control to the PA and unify under one entity and then approach the Israelis who then saw the potential danger to that and there is no question in my mind that precipitated the speeding up of the US embassy move to Jerusalem since it came very shortly thereafter, which essentially killed that whole, historic attempt.

Short of war like 1973, there's nothing else but a harsh boycott of both, Israel and the US on all levels to send a message and frankly it's not even fair to ask those nations to risk the drawback of something like that. But sadly, nothing else will ever work.

BTW, watch for the coming ideas by the US and Kuschner for a peace process once this Jerusalem move calms down. It's going to be the most laughable thing but you know it's coming for sure.

 

[Falcon29]

@Gomig-21

Agree with your assessment my friend, it is indeed a major war that is needed but people are afraid or unwilling. As Muslims though we have to always be ready for any war for any cause, which we aren't anymore. Hamas wants to give up control but not disarm the armed wing. I believe the West want Israel to assume control over most of Palestine. It's unfortunate but in the end we are responsible to counter that. The result of the embassy move is showing its ugly results by the way:

Strengthening sovereignty in eastern Jerusalem

Government to regulate all land in eastern Jerusalem by 2025, easing issuing of construction permits for all residents.

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http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/245878

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