Featured Palestinian president praises Pakistan over its refusal to recognise Israel

[Alpha_PK]

Our Leader is Yahya Sinwar, not Mahmoud Abbas. Anyhow, did you call Edrogan and Rouhani hypocrites as well? Or your own leaders and country which have ties with India , too?

Erdogan isn't a hypocrite.
He's pretty much the only islamic leader that sided with Pakistan on the Kashmir issue.

Iran is fuelling militancy in Pakistan so don't like them anyways.

Also, what ties are you talking about?

 

[Falcon29]

This is our leader who was freed during prisoner swap from Israeli jail in 2011:

Erdogan isn't a hypocrite.
He's pretty much the only islamic leader that sided with Pakistan on the Kashmir issue.

Iran is fuelling militancy in Pakistan so don't like them anyways.

Also, what ties are you talking about?

Your guys bashing Abbas for meeting with Modi, nothing to do with Kashmir. I showed your Iran and Turkey meeting with Modi as well. Turkey and India have 7.8 billion in trade according to Turkish foreign ministry site: http://www.mfa.gov.tr/turkey_s-commercial-and-economic-relations-with-india.en.mfa

Iran trade with India as well in the billions but some members here worship Iran.

People on forum want Palestinians and Arabs to boycott India. But, it's okay for others to have trade and relations with India. I just want to understand why the double standard. Meanwhile, Hamas, and people of Gaza have zero ties with India.

 

[Alpha_PK]

This is our leader who was freed during prisoner swap from Israeli jail in 2011:

Your guys bashing Abbas for meeting with Modi, nothing to do with Kashmir. I showed your Iran and Turkey meeting with Modi as well. Turkey and India have 7.8 billion in trade according to Turkish foreign ministry site: http://www.mfa.gov.tr/turkey_s-commercial-and-economic-relations-with-india.en.mfa

Iran trade with India as well in the billions but some members here worship Iran.

People on forum want Palestinians and Arabs to boycott India. But, it's okay for others to have trade and relations with India. I just want to understand why the double standard. Meanwhile, Hamas, and people of Gaza have zero ties with India.

You can't have zero trade with any country no matter how much you hate them.

Even India and Pakistan have some trading going on.


But my point is that he should support Pakistan on the Kashmir issue clearly.

If he is willing to sacrifice a bit of trade like Erdogan, then we will be thankful.

But if not then he should stop with this fake "thank yous".

Pakistanis have been supporting Palestine since a VERY long time and that support is not linked to any particular leader.

So for me to say that i don't think the current guy of Palestine is helping Pakistan doesn't mean i'm saying the same for the people of Palestine.

I would never back the recognisition of Israel. Pakistan's founding fathers never backed it so why should our politicians do it now?

 

[Nasr]

Palestine is the biggest burden on ummah chumma.

Says the guy who hasn't got the first clue what "Ummah" actually means to a Muslim.

 

[Falcon29]

You can't have zero trade with any country no matter how much you hate them.

Even India and Pakistan have some trading going on.


But my point is that he should support Pakistan on the Kashmir issue clearly.

If he is willing to sacrifice a bit of trade like Erdogan, then we will be thankful.

But if not then he should stop with this fake "thank yous".

Pakistanis have been supporting Palestine since a VERY long time and that support is not linked to any particular leader.

So for me to say that i don't think the current guy of Palestine is helping Pakistan doesn't mean i'm saying the same for the people of Palestine.

I would never back the recognisition of Israel. Pakistan's founding fathers never backed it so why should our politicians do it now?

Why should he? He is no position to pick fights with nations while trying to seek as much diplomatic support as possible for Palestinian statehood. Pakistan controls half of Kashmir. It is disputed territory, that you guys agreed to when UN drew the lines in 1949. Pakistan position on Palestine is more related to ties with Arab nations, especially during 60's-80's. Palestinians were never considered important in all this time not by Pakistani's or Arabs. They were not treated well by anyone. And today Pakistan position is more based on domestic backlash, position on Kashmir and your founding father as you said.

It is more likely for you to gain support on independence referendum for Kashmir instead of asking nations to recognize the whole Kashmiri territory as Pakistani. You need to explain how you expect to get support on this position when the territory is already split between India, China and Pakistan.

If you are expecting support on that position, you need to develop ties with Hamas who is more likely to support that. But, I believe your gov't refuse to deal with them because of pressure from US/Arab gov't's.

Reality is, you are not in political or economic position right to fight a war over the rest of Kashmir. India can sustain war of attrition longer if you can't secure support from other powers. In the meantime, you are still in good position of controlling half the territory and having ties with people on ground in Indian administered part and your army is active in the territory. The dispute is not end of world and no where near as grave as Palestinian situation where their whole country was taken over and occupied. It is a more urgent matter to pushback against Israel's occupation, for the Palestinians that is. Kashmir situation will remain as it is for some more time without any losses to Pakistan. Palestine is in fight against time as you are aware.

 

[Sharma Ji]

WOW AMAZING !

 

[Falcon29]

Reality is you are not in a political or economic position right now to fight a war over the rest of Palestine. Israel can sustain a war of attrition longer. The dispute is not end of world and nowhere near as grave as Kashmir.

Palestinians are in Palestine, not outside of it. This would make sense if you are referring to neighboring nations that intended to mount an offensive against Israel. I am not emotional person nor intending to disrespect anyone. I am asking about the double standard which everyone so far has failed to explain.

As for Kashmir, I am looking at genuinely, it is absolutely true it is no where near a grave situation like that in Palestine. Kashmiri's have a whole country(or even two if you count China) behind them and, and part of their territory is controlled by those two friendly nations. The ones in India administered part are not going anywhere and have an army behind them. They are living in disputed territory and not disputed country.

Why don't you take Gaza and West Bank and make do with it like you're asking us to take our part of Kashmir and just let it be?

You gov't agreed to UN proposal and ceasefire lines in 1949, we did not accept UN partition plan of Palestine. And we are not unrealistic people, I do not expect us to retrieve our land anytime soon. I'm asking the member what is his realistic proposal. Bashing Arabs with double standard isn't going to help or change anything.

Can Pakistan mount an offensive on Indian controlled part of Kashmir and how long they can sustain control over it and do they expect political support in the event of an war with India? This is all that matters if we are looking at end game. Delusional positions on either Kashmir or Palestine are detrimental for us and I certainly am not person to indulge in delusions.

 

[Cliftonite]

Palestinians are in Palestine, not outside of it. This would make sense if you are referring to neighboring nations that intended to mount an offensive against Israel. I am not emotional person nor intending to disrespect anyone. I am asking about the double standard which everyone so far has failed to explain.

As for Kashmir, I am looking at genuinely, it is absolutely true it is no where near a grave situation like that in Palestine. Kashmiri's have a whole country(or even two if you count China) behind them and, and part of their territory is controlled by those two friendly nations. The ones in India administered part are not going anywhere and have an army behind them. They are living in disputed territory and not disputed country.



You gov't agreed to UN proposal and ceasefire lines in 1949, we did not accept UN partition plan of Palestine. And we are not unrealistic people, I do not expect us to retrieve our land anytime soon. I'm asking the member what is his realistic proposal. Bashing Arabs with double standard isn't going to help or change anything.

Can Pakistan mount an offensive on Indian controlled part of Kashmir and how long they can sustain control over it and do they expect political support in the event of an war with India? This is all that matters if we are looking at end game. Delusional positions on either Kashmir or Palestine are detrimental for us and I certainly am not person to indulge in delusions.

Don't you have West Bank and Gaza?

Why do you want to free Tel Aviv and Eilat as well? Why do you even hope to when 5 Arab armies couldn't?

Isn't it better to accept a peace deal like the Camp David Accords instead of being in this perpetual war of attrition where Israel will keep eating up more territory?

I see this dispute as a neutral spectator. I am not like most Pakistanis who will believe everything Palestinians say and advocate dumping "evil Zionists" into the sea. Neither do I believe in conspiracy theories about Greater Israel.

What happened in 1948- the Nakba- was definitelt wrong. But Israel is a reality. Israel has withdrawn from Gaza, why not try your hand at peace instead of firing rockets at it? You will have to extend an olive branch to Israel for them to lift the embargo. They are the stronger party here, they have no incentive for peace unless you extend an olive branch to them.

 

[CatSultan]

Forget about the Zionist puppet mahmoud. LONG LIVE HAMAS.

 

[Falcon29]

Don't you have West Bank and Gaza?

Why do you want to free Tel Aviv and Eilat as well? Why do you even hope to when 5 Arab armies couldn't?

Isn't it better to accept a peace deal like the Camp David Accords instead of being in this perpetual war of attrition where Israel will keep eating up more territory?

I see this dispute as a neutral spectator. I am not like most Pakistanis who will believe everything Palestinians say and advocate dumping "evil Zionists" into the sea. Neither do I believe in conspiracy theories about Greater Israel.

What happened in 1948- the Nakba- was definitelt wrong. But Israel is a reality. Israel has withdrawn from Gaza, why not try your hand at peace instead of firing rockets at it? You will have to extend an olive branch to Israel for them to lift the embargo. They are the stronger party here, they have no incentive for peace unless you extend an olive branch to them.

How is this a response to my post? You said the same thing as the other guy and I addressed it already. What you two are saying makes no sense and you clearly haven't read what I said in my posts. What you individually believe is up to you. My debate here was over double standard and also realistic perspective on the situation.

Forget about the Zionist puppet mahmoud. LONG LIVE HAMAS.
View attachment 689496

Edit: Thought you were the above guy, apologize.

Anyhow, if you want to see more of Hamas you can check this thread I made here:

Palestinian Resistance Photos

Some members requested for me to create this thread again. I will make this new one with new photos from now on. I don't believe I'm violating rules. :) @Zarvan Here we go:

defence.pk

 

[Cliftonite]

How is this a response to my post? You said the same thing as the other guy and I addressed it already. What you two are saying makes no sense and you clearly haven't read what I said in my posts. What you individually believe is up to you. My debate here was over double standard and also realistic perspective on the situation.


Anyhow, if you want to see more of Hamas you can check this thread I made here:

Palestinian Resistance Photos

Some members requested for me to create this thread again. I will make this new one with new photos from now on. I don't believe I'm violating rules. :) @Zarvan Here we go:

defence.pk

Okay. I haven't got the patience nor the time to care for Palestine anyways.

 

[Falcon29]

Okay. I haven't got the patience nor the time to care for Palestine anyways.

The **** were you doing for Palestine beforehand that I wasn't aware of?

Okay. I haven't got the patience nor the time to care for Palestine anyways.

I don't give a shit what you do, don't talk to me like a slave that can be bought. You and all the other Arabs, Turks and Iranians with this attitude towards Palestinians. I was only for sale for the Lord of the Universe my whole life and he accepted from me and made me his slave.

 

[Mamluk]

People on forum want Palestinians and Arabs to boycott India. But, it's okay for others to have trade and relations with India. I just want to understand why the double standard. Meanwhile, Hamas, and people of Gaza have zero ties with India.

Let's flip this around.

People want Pakistanis to boycott Israel. But it's okay for other Arabs and the rest of the world to have trade and relations with Israel. I just want to understand why the double standard.

As for Kashmir, I am looking at genuinely, it is absolutely true it is no where near a grave situation like that in Palestine. Kashmiri's have a whole country(or even two if you count China) behind them and, and part of their territory is controlled by those two friendly nations. The ones in India administered part are not going anywhere and have an army behind them. They are living in disputed territory and not disputed country.

Where the **** do you get the idea it's not as grave as Palestinians?

The Chinese part of Kashmir that India claims is mostly uninhabited and it doesn't count.

The people of Indian occupied Kashmir are not the same as the people living on our side of border. That's like saying Palestinians already have Jordan and Syria as countries of their own so their situation is not as grave!

The people of Kashmir face existential threat, demographic engineering, rape, mass killing and oppression in every way possible.

I don't expect you to care when your President awards Modi, the butcher of Gujarat and responsible for genocide of 8000 Muslims in broad daylight, the highest civilian award in the universe!!

Anyways you do what's in your best interest. We do what's in our best interest. No special relationships. My post are directed at other Pakistanis who are fooled by the concept of Ummah and are ready to sacrifice the entire country to serve others' interests. I don't hate Palestinians or anyone else for looking after their interests selfishly.

 

[Falcon29]

Let's flip this around.

People want Pakistanis to boycott Israel. But it's okay for other Arabs and the rest of the world to have trade and relations with Israel. I just want to understand why the double standard.

What people are you talking about? Activists in general? The PA? Who? If you are talking about Palestinian activists, there is no double standard, they want everyone to condition full relations with Israel on commitment to two state solution.

It should be made clear again, I'm talking about double standard in this forum, not anywhere else. Turkey and Iran can trade with India and meet with Modi and members here have no problem with this but throw tantrums if they see any Arab leader doing this or any Arab state trading with India. Arabs do not have such a double standard.

Where the **** do you get the idea it's not as grave as Palestinians?

It is not, this is a fact, especially from your perspective where you believe it should be integrated into Pakistan. Pakistan is an independent nation, not under occupation of anyone, and they have a functioning military to overlook the Kashmiri territories. Palestinians whole country is under occupation and they got no military assistance from their neighbors. It is a more grave situation.

You need to make up your mind too, do you want Kashmir to be integrated into Pakistan or you want Kashmiri's to declare independent state? I don't downplay Kashmiri peoples struggle and I support them in their own quest for independence and referendum for whatever they want to do.

This does not mean because one conflict is more grave than the other, nothing should be done about it. That's not true, but the way you approaching Kashmir is wrong. There are ways to support Kashmir without cutting ties with India, and Pakistan has a lot of time to plan things out and to campaign for support. Their military is there standing behind the people in Kashmir. Things like that make a big difference.

The people of Indian occupied Kashmir are not the same as the people living on our side of border. That's like saying Palestinians already have Jordan and Syria as countries of their own so their situation is not as grave!

I don't even know what you are talking about here, but no, Palestinians are not Jordanian or Syrian. I was simply talking about which part is administered by which country.

The people of Kashmir face existential threat, demographic engineering, rape, mass killing and oppression in every way possible.

I don't downplay the struggles of Kashmiri people. I am talking about Pakistani's here and their expectations/double standards.

I don't expect you to care when your President awards Modi, the butcher of Gujarat and responsible for genocide of 8000 Muslims in broad daylight, the highest civilian award in the universe!!

First of all, he's not my President, second of all your own leadership, Iran and Turkey leadership all met with him and you said nothing. I personally do not like Modi based off his views and anti-Muslim/Islam bias, as well that of his party's. But, this Modi-Abbas meeting over funding to a hospital is a non-factor.

Anyways you do what's in your best interest. We do what's in our best interest.

No, I don't operate with this kind of mentality about 'interests'. I don't have 'interests' besides establishing the worship of God in this earth. Also I am one person in America, I'm not no government official. You can believe in what you want.

No special relationships. My post are directed at other Pakistanis who are fooled by the concept of Ummah and are ready to sacrifice the entire country to serve others' interests. I don't hate Palestinians or anyone else for looking after their interests selfishly.

Well you need to look in mirror, because you are just as selfish and so the Turks, Iranians and everyone else in this world. For you, the 'solution' is just another political initiative by different nations to achieve more of these selfish interests. I don't share this view and I'm view of stopping selfish behavior which is only going to be achieved by repenting to God and worshipping him. 'Interests' in this world mean nothing to me, I'm not taking them with me to afterlife.

I'm in favor of establishing Islamic Caliphate in the Arab world to remind the people of the Greatness of the Lord and how he can establish a just, God observing society if he wanted to and grant them victory. And God would do that just as an example for human beings, not because he need us for some political victories which are irrelevant in afterlife. It's about pledging allegiance to God and making people know their Lord can influence this world and is ultimately in control of our fate which we seem to forget.

 

[OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ]

What people are you talking about? Activists in general? The PA? Who? If you are talking about Palestinian activists, there is no double standard, they want everyone to condition full relations with Israel on commitment to two state solution.

It should be made clear again, I'm talking about double standard in this forum, not anywhere else. Turkey and Iran can trade with India and meet with Modi and members here have no problem with this but throw tantrums if they see any Arab leader doing this or any Arab state trading with India. Arabs do not have such a double standard.



It is not, this is a fact, especially from your perspective where you believe it should be integrated into Pakistan. Pakistan is an independent nation, not under occupation of anyone, and they have a functioning military to overlook the Kashmiri territories. Palestinians whole country is under occupation and they got no military assistance from their neighbors. It is a more grave situation.

You need to make up your mind too, do you want Kashmir to be integrated into Pakistan or you want Kashmiri's to declare independent state? I don't downplay Kashmiri peoples struggle and I support them in their own quest for independence and referendum for whatever they want to do.

This does not mean because one conflict is more grave than the other, nothing should be done about it. That's not true, but the way you approaching Kashmir is wrong. There are ways to support Kashmir without cutting ties with India, and Pakistan has a lot of time to plan things out and to campaign for support. Their military is there standing behind the people in Kashmir. Things like that make a big difference.



I don't even know what you are talking about here, but no, Palestinians are not Jordanian or Syrian. I was simply talking about which part is administered by which country.



I don't downplay the struggles of Kashmiri people. I am talking about Pakistani's here and their expectations/double standards.



First of all, he's not my President, second of all your own leadership, Iran and Turkey leadership all met with him and you said nothing. I personally do not like Modi based off his views and anti-Muslim/Islam bias, as well that of his party's. But, this Modi-Abbas meeting over funding to a hospital is a non-factor.



No, I don't operate with this kind of mentality about 'interests'. I don't have 'interests' besides establishing the worship of God in this earth. Also I am one person in America, I'm not no government official. You can believe in what you want.



Well you need to look in mirror, because you are just as selfish and so the Turks, Iranians and everyone else in this world. For you, the 'solution' is just another political initiative by different nations to achieve more of these selfish interests. I don't share this view and I'm view of stopping selfish behavior which is only going to be achieved by repenting to God and worshipping him. 'Interests' in this world mean nothing to me, I'm not taking them with me to afterlife.

I'm in favor of establishing Islamic Caliphate in the Arab world to remind the people of the Greatness of the Lord and how he can establish a just, God observing society if he wanted to and grant them victory. And God would do that just as an example for human beings, not because he need us for some political victories which are irrelevant in afterlife. It's about pledging allegiance to God and making people know their Lord can influence this world and is ultimately in control of our fate which we seem to forget.

What you see is hearts and minds... and some find certain opinions more popular or elitist, a cut above so to speak... it doesn't always benefit them but they ain't seeking none either... but in these shenanigans real fundamentals are shaken, not in facts or substance but in valuation...
Which is where all these core "sore issues" find themselves ... while those going and blowing could care less! Fact is they never did! It is not theirs to take, nor win...