Pakistan's War - Documentaries

[RedBaron]

The name of the regiment dosnt necessarily mean that only punjabis are in the punjab regt and so on. there is a "mix" of soldiers from different backgrounds with punjabis in majority in say the punjab regt and pushtuns in the Frontier Force regt. there are hardly any sindhis in the sind regiment and kashmiris in the AKRF (Azad Kashmir Regular Forces). the naming of the regiments along the lines of the 4 provinces is to give the PA a "national" out-look.thats all. traditionally 60% of the army is punjabis; 25% is pashtuns and the rest from baluchis, sindhis, mohajirs etc.

Fatman17, thank you sir. I did not mean to suggest PA regiments are segregated (if I may use the word) along regional lines. Rather, I meant to focus on difficulties that non-native troops may face if stationed on a long-term basis in the tribal areas.

In the IA, the distribution is probably a bit more along regional lines than in PA at least among junior ranks as the cultural differences in India are more pronounced.

 

[fatman17]

Fatman17, thank you sir. I did not mean to suggest PA regiments are segregated (if I may use the word) along regional lines. Rather, I mean to focus on difficulties that non-native troops may face if stationed on a long-term basis in the tribal areas.

understood!
the only possible solution to that problem/issue can be that once the PA clears the area permanantly, the FC takes over and in conjuction with the local admn starts the process of re-construction.

on the long-term, the govt. would need to build cantonments in these areas where army will be stationed during peace-time. this will also have a +ve effect on the economy of the area as the cantonments have a down-stream effect. jobs for locals, food, construction of roads, schools, hospitals etc

 

[Anwar2]

S-2 you really hit the nail on the head “”Iraq appears to have greater population densities that accommodate the control of large numbers of folks by a relatively small contingent of troops. Lots of bang for the buck”” – Yes … the going gets tough when BUCKS are in short supply. Trying to win this war on the cheap by using Pakistan Army as suckers just does work.

“We need assistance from locals but that's really dangerous” …
Yes that’s the dilemma of trying to do it on the Cheap.

“”Being present with well-trained, respectful soldiers and eager to fight in the communities will gain local networks. It's proven time and again that if your guys will lay it on the line for the locals, help starts coming your way. But you gotta go there and prove it first and then stay to reap the rewards.””
Yeh … get some more gun fodder for free! As for “respect”, that’s the way to earn it vion Bronx!

AgNoStIc MuSliM: The small US Special forces detachments that seemingly operate independently with little support in Taliban infested areas have to work with local militia members as subcontractors. In early November a major operation was called off in Khogiani sub-division of Nangrahar because of a Financial dispute with the protection subcontractor.

To gain ONE TIME Control the US / NATO has to have about 300,000 boots on the ground in Afghanistan; of which about 200,000 in Pushtoon areas. Probably in about 2 months the US can break the back of resistance; which will take about a year to heal; that will be the window to declare victory and get the hell out with some dignity.

 

[Anwar2]

Dear Kasrkin: The Bombs are already pretty much raining on our homes. You may find solace and some pleasure knowing that some near and dear ones have already found eternal peace with Allah, all citizens of Pakistan.
America is a great nation, no one hates America, and no one hates its core values of freedom, liberty and enterprise. This great nation has been unfortunately hijacked by an unholy alliance of Southern Baptist Evangelical Fundamentalists and hard core Zionists. In individual right Americans are some of the best people, enlightened, sincere, frank and full of compassion. Americans too are victims of their own version of Taliban. Like a herd of wild bison they have been steered on a path where they have brought arrogance, death and destruction to most of the world …
Problem is not with America, its with Pakistan; and the rapacious abuse of our national asset Pak Army as coolies, camp followers and chowkidars to kill our own citizens.

 

[Kasrkin]

Pak Army as coolies, camp followers and chowkidars to kill our own citizens.

This is simply not the reality except in that imagination of yours. You believe that the PAK ARMY are kin killers and ‘chokidars’ because at the end of the day that is what you want to believe. You believe the terrorists the PAK ARMY is killing are our 'own citizens' (despite the reality that should have smacked you in the face when you saw that body mutilation video) because that is what you want to believe.

How can anyone with half a brain, and even the mildest of concerns for his country talk like this? Talk of Pakistan Army killing Pakistani people, when what they do is the exact opposite…they die for the Pakistani people. In the end people Anwar2 constitute little more than ideological fronts and legitimizing influences for the miscreants. Why else would they come here with only disgust for the PA and not a word for those who would destroy our nation in every sense of the word?

There is NO difference between your rhetoric and Betullah Mehsud's, except that maybe he adds "so we chop their heads off" in the end. Something you seem to be perfectly unbothered by too by the looks of it.

This war will go on, and Pakistan will be victorious InshAllah, and we will be stronger than ever. The whole Muslim World is fighting this scum, Pakistan won’t become a Core State or a Creed Leader by displaying ideological weakness and confusion in front of forces that represent chaos manifest; forces for all we know could be nothing but instruments serving the interests of our powerful enemies…

 

[S-2]

"Yes … the going gets tough when BUCKS are in short supply. Trying to win this war on the cheap by using Pakistan Army as suckers just does work."

Which war is that- Iraq? No. We're finishing up there. Not that we're leaving. We'll never leave. Most of our work's done though. Been good. No Saddam. No Baathists. No irridentist ambitions on Iran and Kuwait. Kurds safe. No WMD for the foreseeable future. Should free up some of our expensive soldiers here. Regardless of a semi-permanent future presence there, I'm sure the costs will come down- especially when we start stealing all that oil.

Afghanistan? No. On THAT war we're using the Germans, French, British, Aussies, Canadians, Danes, Estonians, Italians, the ANA, and some thirty two other nations to get it done on the cheap. I think India might be one of those others. I don't know.

I do know that they're there though. One embassy, four consulates and $1.2 billion in pledged aid with 4,000 on the ground seeing it done. That's getting good bang for the buck, eh?

Now the war in Pakistan is entirely different. I confess that there we are trying to get the Pakistani Army to kill some of it's citizens before we have to do so. Fortunately, these are citizens who've already killed fellow Pakistanis. Many have also murdered elsewhere but I don't want them extradited and tried. Too messy.

I prefer them dead at the hands of professionals who'll promptly drill them and not prolong suffering by videotaping their beheading.

Do you think you guys might be up to that for us...and you?

We'll help out with some of those all-too-short-supply $$$.

Anwar2, you're sorta hard to take seriously.

When do you stop the soap-box pontifications and start discussing issues like an adult?

 

[Anwar2]

Dear Karskin: Thank you for your friendly, good-humored and intellectually stimulating remarks. I really don’t deserve to be elevated to the level of an “ideologue” for Baitullah Masood. I am just an ordinary Pakistani still left with the fig leaf of some honor.

I consider Pak Army as a national asset; the Pak Army of Aziz Bhatti, Sowar Mohammed Husssein and Karnal Sher Khan. PA size and resources pool is sustained by our impoverished nation in the hope of securing its borders against India. Unfortunately a coterie of incompetent money-spinner Generals has done Goal substitution; essentially accepting Pakistan as an Indian surrogate state (Bhutanization) and adopting the easier “War on Terror” option to score with the Americans.

If PA’s mission is just to be camp followers for the Americans, then the Americans should fund it ….

I don’t know of any Muslim or kafir state that has fallen into the abyss like we have done. Which country facilitates US UAV’s to kill its citizens on its own soil?

 

[Anwar2]

S-2 you sure are interesting, talk like that Newt Gingrich! The world at your feet and head in the clouds ….

Sure I have a steep learning curve; learning from the intellectual giants like yourself at this forum.

Oh I see, so you guys won the war in Iraq and will now steal its oil? Did you know that Noor Al Maliki held an Iranian passport for about 8 years? JAM toned down its rhetoric against a reward; integration of Basrah’s economy with Iranian Khozestan? The “reconciliation” brought about by Zalmay Khalilzad and the “Awakening Coucils” plan actually handed Iraq on a silver platter to Iran.

I am sure you cannot go unescorted in Baghdad or Nassiriyah to buy toothpaste!! Can you?

You guys are the best Socialists ….. You pretend to pay and your allies pretend to Fight for you. You pretend to conquer the world and your Anglo-saxon combine of Bristish, Canadians, Aussies pretend to be your crown bearers.

Now I know why is the great USofA now has a lot in common with Erik Honeckers east Germany of the 80's!! Keep it up

 

[S-2]

"The “reconciliation” brought about by Zalmay Khalilzad and the “Awakening Coucils” plan actually handed Iraq on a silver platter to Iran."

At best, two-thirds. Isn't anybody handing the Kurds to anybody else...

That said, I doubt al-Maliki can even deliver the bottom two-thirds of the nation.

Worse case- Iraq fractures, Kurdistan goes it's own way with our help and Iran has the Sunni tar-baby to play with down south.

I wish the Iranians well.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Dear Karskin: Thank you for your friendly, good-humored and intellectually stimulating remarks. I really don’t deserve to be elevated to the level of an “ideologue” for Baitullah Masood. I am just an ordinary Pakistani still left with the fig leaf of some honor.

I consider Pak Army as a national asset; the Pak Army of Aziz Bhatti, Sowar Mohammed Husssein and Karnal Sher Khan. PA size and resources pool is sustained by our impoverished nation in the hope of securing its borders against India. Unfortunately a coterie of incompetent money-spinner Generals has done Goal substitution; essentially accepting Pakistan as an Indian surrogate state (Bhutanization) and adopting the easier “War on Terror” option to score with the Americans.

If PA’s mission is just to be camp followers for the Americans, then the Americans should fund it ….

I don’t know of any Muslim or kafir state that has fallen into the abyss like we have done. Which country facilitates US UAV’s to kill its citizens on its own soil?

A 'fig leaf of honor'?

You flatter yourself - hard to see honor when you advocate allowing murderers and thugs in FATA free reign to carry out their oppression and perversion in the name of Islam.

Not one word from you on how or why the Taliban will be disarmed and the writ of the state restored if the PA does not stay to enforce it.

Withdrawing was tried, the cross border attacks, and the enforcement of some demented ideology called shariah by these perverts continued, at the barrel of a gun. Tribal elders continued to be massacred.

The PA does not have to fight, the Taliban can disarm. You should go and convince them that killing the soldiers and civilians of Pakistan is not the 'true path' - accepting the writ of the state and joining the democratic process is.

 

[Anwar2]

Dear AgNoStIc MuSliM:
Disarming is simply out of question. Pushtoons have an ingrained gun-culture. Army or security agencies cannot effectively disarm a street in Azizabad, Karachi. Trying to do that in FATA borders on lunacy.
Writ of the State was very well respected ever since the pledge of honor by Quaid e Azam Mohammed Ali Jinnah 62 years ago. Writ of Pakistan as a State is respected despite all the bloodshed, our people are very proud and committed Pakistanis.
As for the writ of the Government, Gen. Musharraf forfeited it to his foreign masters 7 years ago; Zardari sahib and Gen. Kiyani are just continuing with the same legacy. Few people respect the writ of Pakistan Government even in Lahore, Karachi or Islamabad. The semblance of “writ” is only because of the firepower and coercive machinery of the government.
The Writ of Pakistan government will be restored after it restores its own sovereignty, and becomes a free independent State.
As for the cross border attacks, it’s a US/NATO problem to secure the borders of Afghanistan. Pakistan should not earn itself a security obligation. If Pakistan government needs to do it for financial reasons then at least charge the right price and spend some money on the Victimized areas of FATA. In earlier posts I have written about Fair and Equitable Compensation.

 

[Anwar2]

Dear S-2: Not just 2/3rd, a Lot more!
Please read a bit about Kurdistan .. who really is Hoshiyar Zubari and what is his relation to Mullah Mustafa Barazani? Mullah Mustafa waged a 32 years long campaign against Iraqi State, and was sustained by Iran since Shah’s time. Kurds need Iran’s patronage or else they will be mauled by Turkey.
Sunnis are the tar babies till Americans stay in Iraq. Following the US departure (which will be most probably a rout in the closing phases) the sunnis will get their rightful place in Iraqi chemistry. Maliki does not have much problem with Baathists or Takritis!!
In the end the American GI’s would have read the story of a Thousand Arabian nights!

 

[S-2]

"Kurds need Iran’s patronage or else they will be mauled by Turkey."

No they don't.

Three letters- U.S.A.

Here's the transcript of a small speech recently given at CSIS by Massoud Barzani. It includes a Q&A session afterwards-

Barzani Speech- CSIS October, 2008

As I'm unsure of your general comprehension, I'll highlight the relevant comment. Enjoy-

Here, from the Q&A-

"Q: Yeah, question from the Kurdish Service of Voice of America ...regarding the Status of Forces Agreement between the United States and Iraq. If that agreement was not signed between Washington and Baghdad, is there any possibility for American forces to be based in Kurdistan region of Iraq, and what would be the request of the United States or how would you see that?

MR. BARZANI: So far, the focus is on the agreement in order to be signed. We will try our best for that agreement to be signed. This issue has not been raised or discussed yet, but if there was no agreement or no agreement was signed and we did not reach an agreement, and if the United States requests for its forces to be based in Kurdistan region, I am confident that the Kurdistan regional parliament and the people of Kurdistan region and the Kurdistan regional government would welcome that."

Read carefully. Lots of interesting comments, most notably the above. That's a near open-invite offered U.S. forces by the President of the KRG. We've un-played cards which we hold that go beyond the current SOFA.

Who holds more leverage with Ankara again- Iran or America?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Dear Karskin: Thank you for your friendly, good-humored and intellectually stimulating remarks. I really don’t deserve to be elevated to the level of an “ideologue” for Baitullah Masood. I am just an ordinary Pakistani still left with the fig leaf of some honor.

I consider Pak Army as a national asset; the Pak Army of Aziz Bhatti, Sowar Mohammed Husssein and Karnal Sher Khan. PA size and resources pool is sustained by our impoverished nation in the hope of securing its borders against India. Unfortunately a coterie of incompetent money-spinner Generals has done Goal substitution; essentially accepting Pakistan as an Indian surrogate state (Bhutanization) and adopting the easier “War on Terror” option to score with the Americans.

If PA’s mission is just to be camp followers for the Americans, then the Americans should fund it ….

I don’t know of any Muslim or kafir state that has fallen into the abyss like we have done. Which country facilitates US UAV’s to kill its citizens on its own soil?

We have gone over this before - 'ingrained gun culture' does not allow for RPG, mortar and rocket firing militias that force people to bow to their diktat and carry out cross border attacks.

The tribals in FATA are welcome to keep their AK's etc. The Taliban militias, forcing their extremist ideology on people, need to be disarmed and disbanded or jailed/killed.

As has been repeatedly pointed out to you - you have no words of condemnation for the barbarities perpetrated by these militias on their own FATA Pushtun. When you can offer a solution under which these militias surrender their weapons and disband, you will have me as a supporter for an end to operations in FATA/Swat.

Till then, your only purpose is quite evidently to argue in favor of a PA withdrawal so that an environment is created where these terrorists quoting divine guidance can spread and destroy Pakistan.

 

[RescueRanger]

Sorry double post