Pakistan's silent partition

[Azizam]

@Azizam his problem is Muslims, he is one of those who believe everything that's being fed to them through media, they hold lots of prejudices against Islam and will make sure to avail each and every opportunity to score a point against Islam.

Not really. I don't see the logic of supporting terrorism elsewhere and claim to be fighting terrorism at home because this shows that the problem is in your society. Any outsider can notice it. Pakistan has a good talent pool especially in tech industry but sad to see it being wasted in the name of religion.

Besides as Gibbs said, some forms of persecutions are directly supported by the state.

 

[I.R.A]

Yes they are all Pakistani's and it's really sad.. But institutionalized stigmatization by the state on these people make them even more vulnerable

Sorry you have no idea of the problem. It is not that simple.

Pakistan need to repeal the criminal blasphemy law.. It's killing a lot of your own people, Just because their beliefs differs to the majority, But they are proud to be Pakistani just as much as any other.. They are not waging a war against the state for territory or special rights..Those law's are a botch on Pakistani society

Again one sided view, to the extent that Blasphemy law need repealing I agree but they need to be there, the other thing minorities in Pakistan mostly suffer because they don't keep their nose out of majority's beliefs and then there comes a time when they cross red lines, they need to understand it is none of their business to disgrace beliefs of majority and mind their own business. Other than this in Pakistani society they live freely and are respected.

I'm not anti Pakistani, You're a wonderful nation with amazing culture and people.. You need to fight those who are trying to impose a alien culture in the name of religion..

Thanks for appreciation, and we are already fighting them. We want peace with the world but we are not willing to let the world dictate us how we need to follow our religion.

Not really. I don't see the logic of supporting terrorism elsewhere and claim to be fighting terrorism at home because this shows that the problem is in your society. Any outsider can notice it. Pakistan has a good talent pool especially in tech industry but sad to see it being wasted in the name of religion.

Besides as Gibbs said, some forms of persecutions are directly supported by the state.

The day outside world stops meddling in our religion things will change. And for terrorism why is it always a Muslim who is terrorist in your eye? I am fed up this twisted view of the outside world.

Sad state of affars i beleive Ahmedis are a muslim sect like any other sect in Islam. If they would like to call themselves muslims its their business and the state have no business in their religious matters Today shias in pakistan wont be feeling the wrath of puristanis should they have not supported that moronic amendment by ZA bhutto of declaring Ahmedis non muslims - That day when Ahmedis were declared non muslims was the darkest day ever in the history of Pakistan.

Unless you are Qadiyani yourself, I seriously disagree.

Besides Qadianis don't prefer to be called a firqa, they call themselves a Jamaat.

 

[Azizam]

Sorry you have no idea of the problem. It is not that simple.



Again one sided view, to the extent that Blasphemy law need repealing I agree but they need to be there, the other thing minorities in Pakistan mostly suffer because they don't keep their nose out of majority's beliefs and then there comes a time when they cross red lines, they need to understand it is none of their business to disgrace beliefs of majority and mind their own business. Other than this in Pakistani society they live freely and are respected.



Thanks for appreciation, and we are already fighting them. We want peace with the world but we are not willing to let the world dictate us how we need to follow our religion.



The day outside world stops meddling in our religion things will change. And for terrorism why is it always a Muslim who is terrorist in your eye? I am fed up this twisted view of the outside world.

So someone who breaks into a primary school, keep kids hostage for days without food or water, make kids drink their own urine and then murder them is not terrorism? This mentality of yours shows the source of problem in Pakistan is this type of mindset. Well, my words mean nothing to you so I will stop from here. It will be you who will reap what you sow.

 

[Jaanbaz]

Well fair enough.

What about my other question?

Which one?

 

[salarsikander]

An Islamic State can not legally or even theoretically give equal rights to all its citizens. That would be against the very purpose of creating a State for Islam.

Hi,
Wow thats news to me, Plz comment further on that and how it would go against the teaching of Islam

 

[I.R.A]

So someone who breaks into a primary school, keep kids hostage for days without food or water, make kids drink their own urine and then murder them is not terrorism? This mentality of yours shows the source of problem in Pakistan is this type of mindset. Well, my words mean nothing to you so I will stop from here. It will be you who will reap what you sow.

And the mother fuqers who rape young kids in front of their mothers in Abu Gharib and Bagram detention cells are your heroes? It is this bullshit one sided mentality of yours that is source of terrorism in world. And for rest same for you, my words also don't have any meanings to you and I too would like to stop.

Which one?

Aww forget it. No worries

 

[Judge]

This is what happens when you do a selective study of religion. You choose arguments out of context and try to prove your point.


Counter questions


What does shariah say about forfeiting property of its rightful owner and orphans?


Where is it mentioned that Shariah is for states or countries on individual basis? How does Shariah look at Muslims? Is it country wise or as collective group?


For Shariah to decide a COAS of an Islamic Army first we need to have an Islamic army, I wish there was one but presently there is none. However, when you say an Islamic army it means based on Muslims totally so why a purely Muslim based army would be headed by a non Muslim COAS? Where is logic in that?


Where in the world is Shariah currently being practiced and implemented in it's true essence? Saudi no..... Iran No...... Pakistan no..... Afghanistan no........ So why would someone bring question about rights of minorities under Shariah when in practice its non existent in any area of the world?


On another note In my young age I was taught by a Moulvi Sb. to respect minorities and their beliefs and stay out of their matters.



Abay tari laga raha hai ya dawat dy raha hai?

Dont waste my time and your Imran.

I dont give a fack whether 'real shariah' is being implemented in Saudi or Pakistan.

I said, does Shariah allow not just practice but also the propagation of non-Muslim religions (like it allows for Islam) in an Islamic state?

If the answer is No, then no, an Islamic state can never give equality to all its citizens.

 

[I.R.A]

Dont waste my time and your Imran.

I dont give a fack whether 'real shariah' is being implemented in Saudi or Pakistan.

I said, does Shariah allow not just practice but also the propagation of non-Muslim religions (like it allows for Islam) in an Islamic state?

If the answer is No, then no, an Islamic state can never give equality to all its citizens.

What do you mean by propagation exactly? To convert others? Or to live and let ones offspring grow?

 

[Judge]

What do you mean by propagation exactly? To convert others? Or to live and let ones offspring grow?

To allow non Muslims to proselytize and spread their religion by conversion, not just organic growth of population.

It is the equivalent of what Muslims call dawah.

 

[pak-marine]

Unless you are Qadiyani yourself, I seriously disagree.

Besides Qadianis don't prefer to be called a firqa, they call themselves a Jamaat.

Unless you are God other than that you are not qualified to issue a decree against or declare any one kafir or non muslim

 

[I.R.A]

To allow non Muslims to proselytize and spread their religion by conversion, not just organic growth of population.

It is the equivalent of what Muslims call dawah.

Where does Islam stop it? And let me reiterate I said Islam. But Islam does have problem with schemes like "Ghar wapsi", or anybody who is exploiting Muslims because of their situation to force them into conversion or anyone who is trying to make changes in Islam by bringing in new prophets or beliefs. Otherwise anyone can come to me and say dawah of his religion, if I am a Muslim in my heart I won't chose darkness over light. (Personally I have been preached by one of followers of this particular community we are discussing in this thread)

Unless you are God other than that you are not qualified to issue a decree against or declare any one kafir or non muslim

Okay let us just stop right here, sorry for replying to your initial post.

 

[Gibbs]

Sorry you have no idea of the problem. It is not that simple.

Again one sided view, to the extent that Blasphemy law need repealing I agree but they need to be there, the other thing minorities in Pakistan mostly suffer because they don't keep their nose out of majority's beliefs and then there comes a time when they cross red lines, they need to understand it is none of their business to disgrace beliefs of majority and mind their own business. Other than this in Pakistani society they live freely and are respected.

Sorry mate .. The very response of yours is the crux of the problem.. Why would any section of the society be subjected to the standards of yours ? Majority or minority.. What gives the majority superiority over others ? And you guys go ape shyt when non western countries asks you to adhere to their customs, To integrate.. Some of you guys keeps on stating that it's not black and white.. Well sorry but it's crystal clear.. Pity really

The day outside world stops meddling in our religion things will change. And for terrorism why is it always a Muslim who is terrorist in your eye? I am fed up this twisted view of the outside world
.

I dont think anybody is meddling in your religion.. Can you point out those who are ? Are any non muslims impose rules on how you practice it ? Are you being prosecuted for it ? Is anybody trying to alter the ways of how you practice it ? Pls give us some examples, How outsiders are meddling with your religion.. The only meddling we see are among Muslims themselves.. Archaic tribal customs of oil rich Arabic theocracies being imposed on other Muslims turning them sectarian and fundamentalist and inturn segregating themselves from the wider society where they have been perfectly assimilated for millenia

 

[Judge]

Where does Islam stop it? And let me reiterate I said Islam. But Islam does have problem with schemes like "Ghar wapsi", or anybody who is exploiting Muslims because of their situation to force them into conversion or anyone who is trying to make changes in Islam by bringing in new prophets or beliefs. Otherwise anyone can come to me and say dawah of his religion, if I am a Muslim in my heart I won't chose darkness over light. (Personally I have been preached by one of followers of this particular community we are discussing in this thread)

Great you dont know shariah yourself.
Read Bukhari, in Shariah governed state, no non-Muslim is allowed to spread or propagate his religion ie convert Muslims though they are allowed to practice it.

Secondly Muslims cannot leave Islam, it is a crime. Apostasy is a punishable crime in Shariah.

 

[Azizam]

Sorry mate .. The very response of yours is the crux of the problem.. Why would any section of the society be subjected to the standards of yours ? Majority or minority.. What gives the majority superiority over others ? And you guys go ape shyt when non western countries asks you to adhere to their customs, To integrate.. Some of you guys keeps on stating that it's not black and white.. Well sorry but it's crystal clear.. Pity really





I dont think anybody is meddling in your religion.. Can you point out those who are ? Is anybody imposing rules on how you practice it ? Are you being prosecuted for it ? Is anybody trying to alter the ways of how you practice it ? Pls give us some examples, How outsiders are meddling with your religion.. The only meddling we see are among Muslims themselves.. Archaic tribal customs of oil rich Arabic theocracies being imposed on other Muslims turning them sectarian and fundamentalist and inturn segregating themselves from the wider society where they have been perfectly assimilated for millenia

There is no point of explaining. He sees the world in a different way than we do.

 

[Gibbs]

There is no point of explaining. He sees the world in a different way than we do.

Well it's not helping really.. To see the whole world against them, When they themselves dont see the damage they do.. Very easy to blame everybody else than introspect