Pakistan's silent partition

[anilindia]

Not much fundamental diference is there between Shia and Sunnis. Just that the differences occurred in the very beginning and since then the two have chosen to live with the differences. All muslims believe that the prophet Muhammad (SAW) is the last prophet of Allah (swt) but Ahmadis dont believe in it. Their spiritual leader and founder Mirza Ghulam Ahmad hailed from Qadian, Dist Gurdaspur in Indian Punjab who declared himself to be another prophet and perhaps also as Imam Mahdi.
All these are unacceptable and offensive to the muslims. Pakistan has got them declared as non muslims and in India they are not allowed to be part of All India Muslim Personal Law Board.

But i have many muslims workshipping various baba also. Like in Ajmer, kaliyar. Why only target Ahmedi?

 

[Pakistani E]

I understand Hindus and Christians leaving Pakistan but aren't Ahmadi's muslims too?
Are they shias?

Whats this shia-sunni fight all about?

Its a taboo subject in the country where I live and also I avoid asking questions related to somebody's religion (outside the forum).

Ahmadis are not Shias. Ahmadis are separate from both Shias and Sunnis. We are not in any fight, we are at the receiving end of it. Its just some people of Pakistan feel threatened by the faith of others.

 

[Gibbs]

Ahmadis are not Shias. Ahmadis are separate from both Shias and Sunnis. We are not in any fight, we are at the receiving end of it. Its just some people of Pakistan feel threatened by the faith of others.

But why would the Pakistani state deem them illegal leading to prosecution ? I mean every country in the world has conflicts depending on different faith and ethnicity on a societal level.. But i find it unfathomable how a state could officially sanction a section of their own citizens

 

[Razia Sultana]

But i have many muslims workshipping various baba also. Like in Ajmer, kaliyar. Why only target Ahmedi?

Please ask those who are targetting them.

 

[Gunsnroses]

@Krate M
Women riding bikes is not something makes Indians smarter than Pakistanis, even hilarious if you differentiate by this parameter thinking it to be the gauge of liberalism. It is just the matter of preference that Pakistani women feel more secure driving cars.

@levina
I do agree with some of your points. I agree Hindus are more liberal but NOT all. You can't challenge my first hand experience sis. But I strongly disagree about rise of Hinduism you think will give stability to India. Trust me, in short, we were more liberal and progressive just three decades back before the incursion of extremism in Pakistan. You just want to institutionalise radicalism vs radicalism for the sake of peace of mind - a time being response. While you will enjoy eating the fruits now, future generations will send curse on you.

 

[Pakistani E]

But why would the Pakistani state deem them illegal leading to prosecution ? I mean every country in the world has conflicts depending on different faith and ethnicity on a societal level.. But i find it surprising how a state could sanction one of their own citizens

It's what happens when a unpopular liberal politician is willing to do anything to stay in power, including giving in to right wing religious fascists. I'm talking about Bhutto here, if you are wondering. He was elected with the support of Ahmadis during elections but back stabbed us like a lying power hungry typical politician.

The right wing Jamat e Islam led goons used the Ahmadi issue to inflame people to riots and violence which led to the government of Pakistan giving precedence to one belief over another. The government thinks its better to placate violent mullahs than peaceful citizens. What they don't know is that Ahmadis could easily have retaliated but we didn't want more bloodshed so we let them get on it.

The matter of faith is actually not that different. Apart from two or three differences, Ahmadis are pretty much Hanafi- Sunnis.

 

[Krate M]

@Gunsnroses
Read the article, it doesn't talk about just driving. It talks about the presence of women in public space, as well as freedom of taking decision, to be able to do businesses and much more. That is a pretty good indication of liberalism. Ignore it if you want to, that's your choice, or take it as challenge and make your country better.
I don't think we are on the same level as European countries though, we need to work on that.

 

[Levina]

@levina
I do agree with some of your points. I agree Hindus are more liberal but NOT all. You can't challenge my first hand experience sis. But I strongly disagree about rise of Hinduism you think will give stability to India. Trust me, in short, we were more liberal and progressive just three decades back before the incursion of extremism in Pakistan. You just want to institutionalise radicalism vs radicalism for the sake of peace of mind - a time being response. .

You're equating rise of hinduism to rise of extremism which is not what i meant. I meant hindus have to be brought out of the minority complex that they 've. It doesnt mean we have to suppress religions. Uniform civil code would be a step in this direction.
Another would be to remove all sorts of reservation (based on gender,religion,caste etc).

I agree not every hindu thinks alike.
@Dem!god ahemmm

While you will enjoy eating the fruits now, future generations will send curse on you

what did you have in mind when you said that?

 

[Pakistani E]

@Jaanbaz have a look at this article.

 

[Jaanbaz]

@Jaanbaz have a look at this article.

I heard that many Ahmadis have been deported back to Pakistan where they were actually running from. Pakistani state on the other hand is in denial. Remember the European Parliament did a conference on persecution of Ahmadis, the Pakistani representative ran away and denied there is any persecution of Ahmadis. Pakistan was booed off in the European Parliament.

 

[I.R.A]

You too are Qadiani?

 

[Gunsnroses]

@Krate M
When you change the perspective, the thought process changes automatically. I do agree you won't find Pakistani women riding bikes or driving buses but I can't agree with the image of Pakistani women you have after reading an article. It's all about matter of priorities and preferences. Women in Pakistan are mostly into running medium to high class businesses, working in banks, hospitals, media, journalism and list goes on. The places they secure are all decision making depending on the level. Again, it's all about the choice and how secure they feel about something. This article and as such may be fascinating for an outsider with some valid points but can't be taken seriously for reference.
Thank you.

@levina
You know what I mean!
Religion is always a code of conduct. Problems arise in the deliverance of that conduct. There lies my basic reservation about any religion, the deliverance!

 

[Krate M]

@Gunsnroses your post tells me that the liberal part of your society exists mostly in the upper middle to upper class. What you say of women driving cars and working in banks etc is true for Indian women as well.
What the article I posted and the article in the OP show is the liberal space is shrinking, because Pakistan of the 60s had women in public space.
The point I make is that the trends are regressive and not progressive.

Ahmedis escaping to other countries and reduced appearance of women in public space is a trend. Please take note of it.

You talk of change of perspective, how is that going to happen without changing the ground reality.

 

[I.R.A]

[B]Ahmedis escaping to other countries[/B] and reduced appearance of women in public space is a trend. Please take note of it.

.

We have two gentlemen (one confirm @[B][URL='https://defence.pk/members/pakistani-exile.146507/']Pakistani Exile[/URL] [/B]and other assumed @[B][URL='https://defence.pk/members/jaanbaz.146486/']Jaanbaz[/URL]) [/B]here from Ahmedia community. Lets hear from them on my following question

Q. How Ahmediya look at a Muslim woman marrying a non Muslim?

If I get the honest answer may be you will be able to separate the Ahmediya escape from women's right under Islam.

 

[Gunsnroses]

@Krate M
Sorry using iphone, not quoting you, some typing limitations as well.
Certainly, what is happening with our minorities is pure evil and even against Islam. Am just ashamed and can only extend my hands apart from raising voice in my capacity. But note that even people in "majority" are not given their rights. They are being butchered irrespectively. And then like a global frustration making people schizophrenic after which people find refuge in whatever they fancy. I am speechless when we talk about minorities!

Regarding women in public places, no am not talking about upper middle and upper class. Start from the lower middle class as mostly people come from there. Education plays big role that's why you will find less women doing business in public places (please refer earlier post). Then again one needs to study the overall trend of a nation too. However, if you go to old places in Lahore and Karachi you will see them selling things on stalls and shops. The situation is not that desperate as it is always portrayed. But yes agree about the discrimination of women which is a common in south asia specially and the world generally.