RAMPAGE
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CZ is in 7.62x39 mm class.
Pakistan's Service Rifle (G-3, Type-56) Replacement Competition 2016.
- Thread starter Zarvan
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proka89
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Maybe they participated in both 7.62x51 and 7.62x39, and were eliminated in 7.62x51, but are still competing in 7.62x39.
RAMPAGE
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I don't think so.
simple Brain
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Comparison
Gun Review: SCAR 17S (Semi-Auto Civilian SCAR-H)
By Nick Leghorn on January 9, 2012
The United States hasn’t fielded a true .30 caliber battle rifle since Vietnam when the M-14 was replaced. And for good reason. A “full size” rifle cartridge like the 7.62 NATO has a lot of muzzle energy and consequently a ton of recoil compared to the gentle 5.56 NATO round and creating a gun that can operate well with those kinds of forces acting on it is a challenge. Fabrique Nationale d’Herstal (FNH) thinks they’ve got a winning design in their SCAR-H, which the military is in the process of adopting. Not to leave us civilians out (and our pocketbooks) FNH USA introduced the SCAR 17S, a semiautomatic version imported from Belgium that one of our readers let me play with this past weekend…
SCAR stands for “Special operations forces Combat Assault Rifle,” a name indicating who the intended client of the version with a giggle switch was. The rifle is designed around a short stroke recoil system much like the M1 carbine or even the Saiga shotgun, where the expanding gases are mostly contained within a telescoping piston which briefly acts on the bolt carrier. The short stroke recoil system allows for cleaner operation than direct gas impingement, with FNH claiming a 90% reduction in carbon in the action compared to an AR-15. That, in theory, should reduce the maintenance required to keep the firearm operating.
Short stroke recoil has another benefit, especially with larger calibers. The power behind short stroke recoil comes from a rather heavy bolt carrier assembly — the piston is only in contact with the bolt carrier for a short period of time. The bolt carrier needs enough momentum from that contact to successfully cycle the action, momentum provided by a beefy carrier. Having all that mass sliding around means that the force of the recoil is spread over a longer period of time, making it feel remarkably lighter and allowing for more accurate follow up shots. But we’ll get into that later.
With the SCAR, the controls are mostly ambidextrous. The safety and magazine release can be operated from either side of the firearm but the bolt catch is only on the left. So left handed shooters would either need to figure out how to manipulate the bolt catch despite their sinister characteristics or use the charging handle, which can be swapped from one side of the bolt carrier to the other depending on user preference.
And that’s where we run headlong into the first complaint I have about this weapon.
The charging handle on the SCAR is directly attached to the bolt carrier. While it’s fantastic that the charging handle is forward of the chamber (as this allows for better manipulation), the fact that it’s directly attached means that it reciprocates. Every time the gun fires, the thing moves back and forth, exactly like the charging handle on an AK. This sucks for a number of reasons.
First, a reciprocating charging handle sucks because it has the potential to injure the operator. The DP-28 machine gun had a similar reciprocating charging handle mounted on the bottom of the gun. I had welts for weeks after firing one that reminded me to never try and fire it offhand ever again. If you get your meat in the way of that metal, it might hurt you and being hurt in a gunfight is an extreme disadvantage. Plus, pain sucks in general, even if you’re not being shot at.
The second reason a reciprocating charging handle sucks is that it has the potential to get caught on something and fail to cycle. From my own 3-gun experience I can think of a couple of scenarios where I had to fire through a tight space. There were plenty of opportunities to catch a charging handle on a strategically placed curtain or a particularly tight corner. In addition, the age-old trick of bracing the gun against the side of the obstacle might in fact cause the failure to cycle if you brace it in the wrong place. It adds one more thing that could go wrong.
Third, it throws off the balance of the firearm as it cycles. On a firearm like the AR-15 or the SCAR, almost everything about the action is symmetrical so that the recoil from the round going off and the action cycling goes straight back into the shooter’s shoulder and moves the barrel as little left or right as possible. Adding a big chunk of metal to the side of the gun that moves back and forth seems to be a good way to make the gun “walk” to one side or the other when firing. It’s unbalanced, and that annoys me.
There is one nice thing about a forward charging handle, though — press checks are amazingly quick and simple. Your thumb is already right there, you just need to reach up and slide it back. I thought that was nifty, but it probably could have been done without making me worry about smacking my thumb. I’ve already been to the emergency room once for a firearm related thumb injury and I’d rather not do it again.
Moving on…
Unlike the AR-15 which uses a buffer assembly in the stock to accept the moving bolt carrier and return it to battery, the SCAR uses a spring which fits entirely in the upper receiver. A number of companies have started fitting various AR-15 models with this feature, but it’s probably best implemented in this design. The internal spring means the receiver itself needs to be a tad longer but the buttstock can be folded to the side to allow for a smaller package for transport. It’s a nifty feature. Not necessarily one I require, but nifty nonetheless.
Speaking of the stock, one of the reasons that the M-14 was replaced with the M-16 was the stock. The M-14 used a traditional stock that placed the shooter’s eye level with the barrel and that recoil from full-auto fire was being directed over the shooter’s shoulder instead of directly into it. This led to uncontrollable muzzle climb, an issue fixed with the AR-15’s in-line recoil system. And while it may appear at first glance that the SCAR has the same issues as the M-14, in reality the barrel and bolt carrier are still directly in line with the shooter’s shoulder just like in the M-16. The swell in the stock you’re seeing is from the rail being placed above the gas piston system, which adds about an inch of height over the bore compared to the AR-15 and allows for optics to be placed on the rail without risers. Well, mostly.
Last but not least, I want to talk about the muzzle brake. While you might be able to get away without a muzzle brake on a 5.56 NATO rifle it’s practically required equipment on a “tactical” 7.62 NATO firearm. In order to make faster follow-up shots you need to be able to control the firearm and minimize any movement resulting from firing the gun, something which a muzzle brake was specifically designed to do. And despite the strange shape, this one does its job extremely well. Even from a standing position, I was able to keep the gun under control and recoil was close to nonexistent. It’s a nice touch that adds a ton of controlability to the firearm.
Oh, and the gun has side and bottom rails as well as a full length top rail and can be disassembled and reassembled easily. FYI.
A quick note about import restrictions before we move on to the end of our journey.
The “real” FN SCAR-H is manufactured at a plant in South Carolina, but the civilian version comes from a plant in Belgium. Yes, the country in Europe – a place where the market is significantly smaller for the civilian variant of a military firearm. It doesn’t make a lot of sense to me for FNH to be importing these guns, especially considering that once you import the firearm into the country it comes under the control of that pesky 922(R) law that makes it a felony to slap a high capacity magazine in a freshly imported firearm.
FNH USA changes out a couple of minor parts to become 922(R) compliant and modifies the lower receivers to take the high capacity magazines once they enter the country (the remnants of the crippling process is the rib on the back of the magazine and the corresponding slot in the receiver) but it still doesn’t make sense to me that they would set up a shop overseas to make the SCAR 17S for the US market when they already have a plant tooled up right here in the States. I’m sure it adds some dollars to the final price of the gun, which is not an inconsiderable amount.
A side effect of the crippling and de-crippling process for the magazines is that only FNH’s proprietary magazines will fit in the gun. Not even the much loved AR-10 PMAGs will fit — only FNH’s 20-round aluminum monstrosities. Which will make getting additional magazines not only difficult, but expensive.
The real question is how well it shoots. And while the FNH 3-gun team seems to be in love with it I’m not so enamored.
There’s nothing technically wrong with the rifle. It’s accurate, it functions and recoil is negligible. It’s just a question of how the thing feels and to me, it’s too bulky.
There’s a lot of mass in that rifle, and moving it from one target to another (let alone manhandling it around a course) takes some effort. It feels like I have a German shepherd in my hands instead of a nice svelte rifle.
If I’m flying full tilt down a course of fire in competition shooting, I want something that I can maneuver quickly, not this oversized fish-like firearm. Unless I’m shooting heavy metal division, in which case this firearm would actually be a perfect replacement for the M1A and AR-10 currently being used.
If I’m out hunting, I want something that I can keep a low profile with and carry for miles without getting tired, not this eight pound monstrosity. Unless I’m hog hunting and using a vehicle, in which case the bulk would be much more manageable.
If I’m on the range I want an inexpensive caliber that I can fire without my wallet trying to strangle me. Unless I don’t particularly care about accuracy and am using cheap milsurp ammo.
If I’m getting a home defense rifle I want something with enough power to put down a bad guy without blowing out my eardrums and a round that stops or significantly loses velocity after hitting flesh instead of continuing through the next few walls. Unless I live on a ranch and expect my attackers to be at a distance.
The place where this kind of firearm works best is the military where you need to project firepower over great distances. I can definitely see improvements over the M-14 and AR-10 for that application, but not much else. There are some rather specific niches into which the SCAR can fit in civilian shooting, but the question is whether the benefits of the platform in those very specific situations warrant the hefty price tag.
In short, the FNH SCAR 17S is a perfectly viable solution to an existing problem for the military, but it doesn’t necessarily translate into a good firearm for civilians. It’s a cool firearm that’s fun to shoot, but save for a handful of very specific scenarios I just don’t see much of an application for it beyond that. I could see spending $500 or $1,000 on a gun just for the cool factor, but $3,000 is too much in my opinion especially when you take into account my problems with a reciprocating charging handle.
FNH SCAR 17S
Specifications
Caliber: 7.62 NATO
Barrel: 16.25″
Overall: 38.5″ (28.5″ folded)
Weight: 8.0 lbs Empty
Capacity: 10 or 20 rounds
MSRP: $2,900
Ratings (Out of Five Stars)
All ratings are relative to other similar guns, and the final score IS NOT calculated from the constituent scores.
Accuracy: * * * * *
We were singing steel at 250 yards with this rifle. Accuracy is not an issue if in the right hands.
Ergonomics: * * *
This gun is chubby. Yep, chubby. That’s a good word to describe it. I can’t even get my big hands around the gun for my typical aggressive “thumb forward” grip.
Ergonomics Firing: * * *
That’s (-3) stars for making me worry about the safety of my thumb but (+1) stars for the fantastic job they did mitigating recoil. There’s also a bit of creep in the trigger which I find slightly maddening.
Reliability: * * * *
I’m dropping a star off for the external reciprocating charging handle. Other than that it works like a Swiss clock.
Customization: * * * *
There’s tons of stuff you can do to this rifle. In theory, at least. Changing out barrels and swapping accessories is easy as pie, but I haven’t seen that many aftermarket parts for these guns yet. Tango Down has some good stuff, but not many other places have parts.
Overall Rating: * * *
For three grand I was expecting… more. I was disappointed. It’s a fun range toy and probably great for hog hunting but I don’t see much of a use beyond that. There’s nothing this rifle does any better that an M1A or an AR-10 or even an FAL can’t do equally well for half the price besides looking cool and having slightly better ergonomics.
Gun Review: SCAR 17S (Semi-Auto Civilian SCAR-H)
By Nick Leghorn on January 9, 2012
The United States hasn’t fielded a true .30 caliber battle rifle since Vietnam when the M-14 was replaced. And for good reason. A “full size” rifle cartridge like the 7.62 NATO has a lot of muzzle energy and consequently a ton of recoil compared to the gentle 5.56 NATO round and creating a gun that can operate well with those kinds of forces acting on it is a challenge. Fabrique Nationale d’Herstal (FNH) thinks they’ve got a winning design in their SCAR-H, which the military is in the process of adopting. Not to leave us civilians out (and our pocketbooks) FNH USA introduced the SCAR 17S, a semiautomatic version imported from Belgium that one of our readers let me play with this past weekend…
SCAR stands for “Special operations forces Combat Assault Rifle,” a name indicating who the intended client of the version with a giggle switch was. The rifle is designed around a short stroke recoil system much like the M1 carbine or even the Saiga shotgun, where the expanding gases are mostly contained within a telescoping piston which briefly acts on the bolt carrier. The short stroke recoil system allows for cleaner operation than direct gas impingement, with FNH claiming a 90% reduction in carbon in the action compared to an AR-15. That, in theory, should reduce the maintenance required to keep the firearm operating.
Short stroke recoil has another benefit, especially with larger calibers. The power behind short stroke recoil comes from a rather heavy bolt carrier assembly — the piston is only in contact with the bolt carrier for a short period of time. The bolt carrier needs enough momentum from that contact to successfully cycle the action, momentum provided by a beefy carrier. Having all that mass sliding around means that the force of the recoil is spread over a longer period of time, making it feel remarkably lighter and allowing for more accurate follow up shots. But we’ll get into that later.
With the SCAR, the controls are mostly ambidextrous. The safety and magazine release can be operated from either side of the firearm but the bolt catch is only on the left. So left handed shooters would either need to figure out how to manipulate the bolt catch despite their sinister characteristics or use the charging handle, which can be swapped from one side of the bolt carrier to the other depending on user preference.
And that’s where we run headlong into the first complaint I have about this weapon.
The charging handle on the SCAR is directly attached to the bolt carrier. While it’s fantastic that the charging handle is forward of the chamber (as this allows for better manipulation), the fact that it’s directly attached means that it reciprocates. Every time the gun fires, the thing moves back and forth, exactly like the charging handle on an AK. This sucks for a number of reasons.
First, a reciprocating charging handle sucks because it has the potential to injure the operator. The DP-28 machine gun had a similar reciprocating charging handle mounted on the bottom of the gun. I had welts for weeks after firing one that reminded me to never try and fire it offhand ever again. If you get your meat in the way of that metal, it might hurt you and being hurt in a gunfight is an extreme disadvantage. Plus, pain sucks in general, even if you’re not being shot at.
The second reason a reciprocating charging handle sucks is that it has the potential to get caught on something and fail to cycle. From my own 3-gun experience I can think of a couple of scenarios where I had to fire through a tight space. There were plenty of opportunities to catch a charging handle on a strategically placed curtain or a particularly tight corner. In addition, the age-old trick of bracing the gun against the side of the obstacle might in fact cause the failure to cycle if you brace it in the wrong place. It adds one more thing that could go wrong.
Third, it throws off the balance of the firearm as it cycles. On a firearm like the AR-15 or the SCAR, almost everything about the action is symmetrical so that the recoil from the round going off and the action cycling goes straight back into the shooter’s shoulder and moves the barrel as little left or right as possible. Adding a big chunk of metal to the side of the gun that moves back and forth seems to be a good way to make the gun “walk” to one side or the other when firing. It’s unbalanced, and that annoys me.
There is one nice thing about a forward charging handle, though — press checks are amazingly quick and simple. Your thumb is already right there, you just need to reach up and slide it back. I thought that was nifty, but it probably could have been done without making me worry about smacking my thumb. I’ve already been to the emergency room once for a firearm related thumb injury and I’d rather not do it again.
Moving on…
Unlike the AR-15 which uses a buffer assembly in the stock to accept the moving bolt carrier and return it to battery, the SCAR uses a spring which fits entirely in the upper receiver. A number of companies have started fitting various AR-15 models with this feature, but it’s probably best implemented in this design. The internal spring means the receiver itself needs to be a tad longer but the buttstock can be folded to the side to allow for a smaller package for transport. It’s a nifty feature. Not necessarily one I require, but nifty nonetheless.
Speaking of the stock, one of the reasons that the M-14 was replaced with the M-16 was the stock. The M-14 used a traditional stock that placed the shooter’s eye level with the barrel and that recoil from full-auto fire was being directed over the shooter’s shoulder instead of directly into it. This led to uncontrollable muzzle climb, an issue fixed with the AR-15’s in-line recoil system. And while it may appear at first glance that the SCAR has the same issues as the M-14, in reality the barrel and bolt carrier are still directly in line with the shooter’s shoulder just like in the M-16. The swell in the stock you’re seeing is from the rail being placed above the gas piston system, which adds about an inch of height over the bore compared to the AR-15 and allows for optics to be placed on the rail without risers. Well, mostly.
Last but not least, I want to talk about the muzzle brake. While you might be able to get away without a muzzle brake on a 5.56 NATO rifle it’s practically required equipment on a “tactical” 7.62 NATO firearm. In order to make faster follow-up shots you need to be able to control the firearm and minimize any movement resulting from firing the gun, something which a muzzle brake was specifically designed to do. And despite the strange shape, this one does its job extremely well. Even from a standing position, I was able to keep the gun under control and recoil was close to nonexistent. It’s a nice touch that adds a ton of controlability to the firearm.
Oh, and the gun has side and bottom rails as well as a full length top rail and can be disassembled and reassembled easily. FYI.
A quick note about import restrictions before we move on to the end of our journey.
The “real” FN SCAR-H is manufactured at a plant in South Carolina, but the civilian version comes from a plant in Belgium. Yes, the country in Europe – a place where the market is significantly smaller for the civilian variant of a military firearm. It doesn’t make a lot of sense to me for FNH to be importing these guns, especially considering that once you import the firearm into the country it comes under the control of that pesky 922(R) law that makes it a felony to slap a high capacity magazine in a freshly imported firearm.
FNH USA changes out a couple of minor parts to become 922(R) compliant and modifies the lower receivers to take the high capacity magazines once they enter the country (the remnants of the crippling process is the rib on the back of the magazine and the corresponding slot in the receiver) but it still doesn’t make sense to me that they would set up a shop overseas to make the SCAR 17S for the US market when they already have a plant tooled up right here in the States. I’m sure it adds some dollars to the final price of the gun, which is not an inconsiderable amount.
A side effect of the crippling and de-crippling process for the magazines is that only FNH’s proprietary magazines will fit in the gun. Not even the much loved AR-10 PMAGs will fit — only FNH’s 20-round aluminum monstrosities. Which will make getting additional magazines not only difficult, but expensive.
The real question is how well it shoots. And while the FNH 3-gun team seems to be in love with it I’m not so enamored.
There’s nothing technically wrong with the rifle. It’s accurate, it functions and recoil is negligible. It’s just a question of how the thing feels and to me, it’s too bulky.
There’s a lot of mass in that rifle, and moving it from one target to another (let alone manhandling it around a course) takes some effort. It feels like I have a German shepherd in my hands instead of a nice svelte rifle.
If I’m flying full tilt down a course of fire in competition shooting, I want something that I can maneuver quickly, not this oversized fish-like firearm. Unless I’m shooting heavy metal division, in which case this firearm would actually be a perfect replacement for the M1A and AR-10 currently being used.
If I’m out hunting, I want something that I can keep a low profile with and carry for miles without getting tired, not this eight pound monstrosity. Unless I’m hog hunting and using a vehicle, in which case the bulk would be much more manageable.
If I’m on the range I want an inexpensive caliber that I can fire without my wallet trying to strangle me. Unless I don’t particularly care about accuracy and am using cheap milsurp ammo.
If I’m getting a home defense rifle I want something with enough power to put down a bad guy without blowing out my eardrums and a round that stops or significantly loses velocity after hitting flesh instead of continuing through the next few walls. Unless I live on a ranch and expect my attackers to be at a distance.
The place where this kind of firearm works best is the military where you need to project firepower over great distances. I can definitely see improvements over the M-14 and AR-10 for that application, but not much else. There are some rather specific niches into which the SCAR can fit in civilian shooting, but the question is whether the benefits of the platform in those very specific situations warrant the hefty price tag.
In short, the FNH SCAR 17S is a perfectly viable solution to an existing problem for the military, but it doesn’t necessarily translate into a good firearm for civilians. It’s a cool firearm that’s fun to shoot, but save for a handful of very specific scenarios I just don’t see much of an application for it beyond that. I could see spending $500 or $1,000 on a gun just for the cool factor, but $3,000 is too much in my opinion especially when you take into account my problems with a reciprocating charging handle.
FNH SCAR 17S
Specifications
Caliber: 7.62 NATO
Barrel: 16.25″
Overall: 38.5″ (28.5″ folded)
Weight: 8.0 lbs Empty
Capacity: 10 or 20 rounds
MSRP: $2,900
Ratings (Out of Five Stars)
All ratings are relative to other similar guns, and the final score IS NOT calculated from the constituent scores.
Accuracy: * * * * *
We were singing steel at 250 yards with this rifle. Accuracy is not an issue if in the right hands.
Ergonomics: * * *
This gun is chubby. Yep, chubby. That’s a good word to describe it. I can’t even get my big hands around the gun for my typical aggressive “thumb forward” grip.
Ergonomics Firing: * * *
That’s (-3) stars for making me worry about the safety of my thumb but (+1) stars for the fantastic job they did mitigating recoil. There’s also a bit of creep in the trigger which I find slightly maddening.
Reliability: * * * *
I’m dropping a star off for the external reciprocating charging handle. Other than that it works like a Swiss clock.
Customization: * * * *
There’s tons of stuff you can do to this rifle. In theory, at least. Changing out barrels and swapping accessories is easy as pie, but I haven’t seen that many aftermarket parts for these guns yet. Tango Down has some good stuff, but not many other places have parts.
Overall Rating: * * *
For three grand I was expecting… more. I was disappointed. It’s a fun range toy and probably great for hog hunting but I don’t see much of a use beyond that. There’s nothing this rifle does any better that an M1A or an AR-10 or even an FAL can’t do equally well for half the price besides looking cool and having slightly better ergonomics.
simple Brain
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Gun Review: Krebs Custom’s AK-103K Rifle
Krebs' AK-103K is an American-perfected 7.62x39mm Russian AK with outstanding accuracy!
OCT 8, 2014
BY JORGE AMSELLE
A standard Saiga Sporter is converted back to a warrior by Krebs Custom with many of their own improvements making this classic better than the original. Shown with Insight Mini Red Dot Sight.
I may not be first in line to purchase a Russian-made car or TV, but when it comes to firearms, Russia certainly has a long warrior tradition that values highly effective arms, and it’s possible that there is no firearm this is more true of than the AK. When it comes to real Russian AKs, there is one place that comes to mind immediately for Kalashnikov enthusiasts: Izhmash Arms Factory, which was originally founded over 200 years ago by Czar Alexander I. Located in Izhevsk, deep within the Western Urals and almost 500 miles east of Moscow, Izhmash was Mikhail Kalashnikov’s workplace for 60 years, beginning shortly after World War II.
The AK rifles produced by Izhmash are imported to the U.S. as sporting rifles under the Saiga name. That means you get a very plain-looking polymer buttstock, no protruding pistol grip, a trigger and triggerguard moved far to the rear of the receiver, and an elongated handguard. But, you also get a rifle made to original military specs in the same factory that makes Russian military arms, by the same people. Several domestic manufacturers do a brisk business of legally converting these AKs back to their original configuration by adding the requisite number of U.S. parts. However, for me there is no manufacturer that does a better job of working on Saiga AKs than Krebs Custom.
Gun Details
The Krebs AK-103K may start as a Russian AK, but the addition of American ingenuity in my opinion makes it better than the original. Krebs starts out with a rock-solid reliable, semi-automatic, rotary-bolt, long-stroke-gas-piston-operated rifle complete with a hammer-forged, chrome-lined barrel chambered in traditional 7.62x39mm. On the AK-103K model tested, Krebs cut the barrel down to 14 inches and then added a permanently attached muzzle brake to bring the legal barrel length to 16.5 inches. The brake itself is made by Krebs and modeled on the original Russian brake for the AK-74 rifle. Unlike the old slant-style brake, which simply direct gasses upwards to offset muzzle rise, this brake uses a two-chambered system that actively reduces felt recoil.
RELATED: Running Red: 20 Top AK-47s & Soviet Weapons
Three ports located at the back of the brake direct gasses upward and to the right to counter muzzle rise. In addition, the front of the muzzle brake features a distinct open split. Slots at the front of the chamber direct gasses backward, pushing the rifle forward and also reducing felt recoil. The final result of all of this is a brake that keeps the rifle on target for faster follow-up shots, noticeably reducing perceived recoil to the point that the 7.62x39mm cartridge feels closer to a 5.56x45mm—and there is very little muzzle flash. Underneath the barrel are an original bayonet lug and steel cleaning rod.
The gas block itself is also of the AK-74 variety and features a distinct 90-degree angle instead of the old, more slanted look of the original AK-47. When the Soviets switched from the standard 7.62x39mm cartridge to the new smaller diameter 5.45x39mm cartridge, the size and angle of the gas hole in the barrel reportedly caused some incidents of bullet shear. This resulted in bullet shavings entering the gas system and degrading the operation, while the damaged bullet had reduced accuracy. The 90-degree gas block presented a smaller opening and resolved this issue and has been applied to a variety of new-production Kalashnikov rifles.
Like all AK-pattern rifles, the Krebs AK-103K uses a long-stroke gas-piston system of operation. The gasses bled from the barrel directly impact a long, chrome-plated, steel piston that is permanently affixed to the bolt carrier and charging handle. This carries the rotating bolt, which features two locking lugs on its face. When firing, the operating rod, handle and unlocked bolt move back as one unit, improving the rifle’s reliability in field conditions. This is nevertheless a lot of mass slamming back and forth, which can increase perceived recoil, shift point of aim and affect accuracy. Indeed, AKs are not generally admired for their accuracy, although they can be capable of achieving very good results in this regard. The effect of this system on reliability is undeniable, however, and this is one of the AK’s key strengths. The fixed charging handle does reciprocate when firing (so some attention needs to be paid to weapon position), but it also makes a very effective forward assist and helps greatly if you need to remove a stuck round.
Krebs takes this already reliable system and improves it by smoothing the action, dehorning the edges inside and out, and adding a tuned U.S. trigger and safety selector. The Krebs custom safety selector, made from a single 1mm-thick piece of stamped steel, is indeed worthy of mention and a drastic improvement over the standard Russian selector. The new right-side-mounted safety selector features a cutout that serves as a manually activated bolt hold-open device. Normally, AK selectors have an extension at the front to operate them and require the user to remove his or her hand from the pistol grip to do so. But the Krebs Custom selector adds an extended tab at the rear bottom of the selector, which allows the shooter (if right-handed) to use the trigger finger to operate it without having to remove the hand from the pistol grip. This makes operation of the rifle by the user much easier.
The handguard and pistol grip are standard, U.S.-made, black polymer parts. They are well executed and attractive while remaining true to the dimensions of the original. The buttstock, however, has been replaced with a complete unit from VLTOR that is specifically made for a stamped-receiver AK. An AR-style, aluminum receiver-extension tube allows for the use of any mil-spec collapsible stock. The receiver tube is very well built and sturdy.
The VLTOR receiver extension tube offers five levels of adjustment for length of pull, and the numbers are clearly marked on top, so it is easy for the operator to return to a desired position. The tube also has ambidextrous single-point sling attachment mounts at the front and a sizable waterproof internal storage space, which is easily accessed from the rear by removing the buttstock. The black polymer stock itself is the VLTOR IMod (improved modstock), which features its own battery storage spaces and ambidextrous single-point sling attachment mounts, as well as a sling mount on top. The buttpad has a thick rubber covering with a tire-track pattern for improved shoulder retention.
One common criticism of the AK design is that it does not lend itself to easy mounting of optics. Mounting a length of rail to the top receiver cover is simply not stable enough to hold zero for serious shooting. The Russians added a much sturdier optics mount to the left side of the receiver itself, but this often leaves the optic slightly offset and mounted too high for a comfortable cheekweld. Krebs Custom resolves this with the addition of its outstanding rear-sight receiver rail system. This rail rides as low as possible over the receiver cover, without replacing it. It attaches solidly at the rear sight base and the buttstock tang. This solid, anodized 7075 aluminum system provides 8 inches of Picatinny rail for attaching optics.
At the rear of the system is an AR-style peep sight with a small and large flip aperture that can be adjusted for elevation, as well as an AR-style windage adjustment knob. These iron sights are not only a huge improvement over the standard AK sights but also address another criticism of the AK: the short sight radius. The Krebs system extends the sight radius all the way to the rear of the receiver, a 60 percent improvement that increases the rifle’s accuracy potential. This system also allows for easy disassembly with an AR-style takedown pin at the rear, which allows the entire rail to rotate up for removal of the receiver cover. Standard AK disassembly is then possible for routine maintenance.
The fit and finish of the Krebs Custom AK-103K is flawless. Krebs has taken the standard Russian finish and replaced it with its KrebsKote solvent-proof finish. The end result is the best I have seen on an AK.
Range Time
At the range the AK-103K performed flawlessly with zero malfunctions of any sort and was extremely comfortable to shoot. The AK-74-style muzzle brake significantly reduced the rifle’s already light recoil, and the tuned trigger was very smooth with a 4.5-pound pull. This is still a standard AK-type single-stage trigger with a long degree of travel, which can make it difficult to tell when it will break, but it is still far better than most AK triggers I have used.
For accuracy testing I installed the Millet DMS scope with a quickly adjustable variable 1-4×24 illuminated reticle for low-light use, This scope is excellent both as a CQB sight and for engaging targets at distances out to 500 yards. The reticle has a simple 1-MOA dot surrounded by an 18-MOA donut, which can be used for range estimation. From a benchrest at 100 yards and using a mix of ammunition, the AK-103K performed very well, producing consistent 2- to 3-MOA results with several groups measuring under 2 MOA. This is excellent accuracy for a combat rifle.
AK fans have a lot of options and variety available to them today, considering all the different nations that have produced this classic rifle. But Marc Krebs of Krebs Custom really does stand out. Krebs cut his teeth as a gunsmith under the tutelage of master gunsmith Bob Dunlap and began building custom 1911s before venturing into military rifles. I for one am certainly glad that his interests settled on the AK, where in my opinion his innovation and custom work has produced one of the best AK variants available today.
Gun Review: Krebs Custom's AK-103K Rifle
Krebs' AK-103K is an American-perfected 7.62x39mm Russian AK with outstanding accuracy!
OCT 8, 2014
BY JORGE AMSELLE
A standard Saiga Sporter is converted back to a warrior by Krebs Custom with many of their own improvements making this classic better than the original. Shown with Insight Mini Red Dot Sight.
I may not be first in line to purchase a Russian-made car or TV, but when it comes to firearms, Russia certainly has a long warrior tradition that values highly effective arms, and it’s possible that there is no firearm this is more true of than the AK. When it comes to real Russian AKs, there is one place that comes to mind immediately for Kalashnikov enthusiasts: Izhmash Arms Factory, which was originally founded over 200 years ago by Czar Alexander I. Located in Izhevsk, deep within the Western Urals and almost 500 miles east of Moscow, Izhmash was Mikhail Kalashnikov’s workplace for 60 years, beginning shortly after World War II.
The AK rifles produced by Izhmash are imported to the U.S. as sporting rifles under the Saiga name. That means you get a very plain-looking polymer buttstock, no protruding pistol grip, a trigger and triggerguard moved far to the rear of the receiver, and an elongated handguard. But, you also get a rifle made to original military specs in the same factory that makes Russian military arms, by the same people. Several domestic manufacturers do a brisk business of legally converting these AKs back to their original configuration by adding the requisite number of U.S. parts. However, for me there is no manufacturer that does a better job of working on Saiga AKs than Krebs Custom.
Gun Details
The Krebs AK-103K may start as a Russian AK, but the addition of American ingenuity in my opinion makes it better than the original. Krebs starts out with a rock-solid reliable, semi-automatic, rotary-bolt, long-stroke-gas-piston-operated rifle complete with a hammer-forged, chrome-lined barrel chambered in traditional 7.62x39mm. On the AK-103K model tested, Krebs cut the barrel down to 14 inches and then added a permanently attached muzzle brake to bring the legal barrel length to 16.5 inches. The brake itself is made by Krebs and modeled on the original Russian brake for the AK-74 rifle. Unlike the old slant-style brake, which simply direct gasses upwards to offset muzzle rise, this brake uses a two-chambered system that actively reduces felt recoil.
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Three ports located at the back of the brake direct gasses upward and to the right to counter muzzle rise. In addition, the front of the muzzle brake features a distinct open split. Slots at the front of the chamber direct gasses backward, pushing the rifle forward and also reducing felt recoil. The final result of all of this is a brake that keeps the rifle on target for faster follow-up shots, noticeably reducing perceived recoil to the point that the 7.62x39mm cartridge feels closer to a 5.56x45mm—and there is very little muzzle flash. Underneath the barrel are an original bayonet lug and steel cleaning rod.
The gas block itself is also of the AK-74 variety and features a distinct 90-degree angle instead of the old, more slanted look of the original AK-47. When the Soviets switched from the standard 7.62x39mm cartridge to the new smaller diameter 5.45x39mm cartridge, the size and angle of the gas hole in the barrel reportedly caused some incidents of bullet shear. This resulted in bullet shavings entering the gas system and degrading the operation, while the damaged bullet had reduced accuracy. The 90-degree gas block presented a smaller opening and resolved this issue and has been applied to a variety of new-production Kalashnikov rifles.
Like all AK-pattern rifles, the Krebs AK-103K uses a long-stroke gas-piston system of operation. The gasses bled from the barrel directly impact a long, chrome-plated, steel piston that is permanently affixed to the bolt carrier and charging handle. This carries the rotating bolt, which features two locking lugs on its face. When firing, the operating rod, handle and unlocked bolt move back as one unit, improving the rifle’s reliability in field conditions. This is nevertheless a lot of mass slamming back and forth, which can increase perceived recoil, shift point of aim and affect accuracy. Indeed, AKs are not generally admired for their accuracy, although they can be capable of achieving very good results in this regard. The effect of this system on reliability is undeniable, however, and this is one of the AK’s key strengths. The fixed charging handle does reciprocate when firing (so some attention needs to be paid to weapon position), but it also makes a very effective forward assist and helps greatly if you need to remove a stuck round.
Krebs takes this already reliable system and improves it by smoothing the action, dehorning the edges inside and out, and adding a tuned U.S. trigger and safety selector. The Krebs custom safety selector, made from a single 1mm-thick piece of stamped steel, is indeed worthy of mention and a drastic improvement over the standard Russian selector. The new right-side-mounted safety selector features a cutout that serves as a manually activated bolt hold-open device. Normally, AK selectors have an extension at the front to operate them and require the user to remove his or her hand from the pistol grip to do so. But the Krebs Custom selector adds an extended tab at the rear bottom of the selector, which allows the shooter (if right-handed) to use the trigger finger to operate it without having to remove the hand from the pistol grip. This makes operation of the rifle by the user much easier.
The handguard and pistol grip are standard, U.S.-made, black polymer parts. They are well executed and attractive while remaining true to the dimensions of the original. The buttstock, however, has been replaced with a complete unit from VLTOR that is specifically made for a stamped-receiver AK. An AR-style, aluminum receiver-extension tube allows for the use of any mil-spec collapsible stock. The receiver tube is very well built and sturdy.
The VLTOR receiver extension tube offers five levels of adjustment for length of pull, and the numbers are clearly marked on top, so it is easy for the operator to return to a desired position. The tube also has ambidextrous single-point sling attachment mounts at the front and a sizable waterproof internal storage space, which is easily accessed from the rear by removing the buttstock. The black polymer stock itself is the VLTOR IMod (improved modstock), which features its own battery storage spaces and ambidextrous single-point sling attachment mounts, as well as a sling mount on top. The buttpad has a thick rubber covering with a tire-track pattern for improved shoulder retention.
One common criticism of the AK design is that it does not lend itself to easy mounting of optics. Mounting a length of rail to the top receiver cover is simply not stable enough to hold zero for serious shooting. The Russians added a much sturdier optics mount to the left side of the receiver itself, but this often leaves the optic slightly offset and mounted too high for a comfortable cheekweld. Krebs Custom resolves this with the addition of its outstanding rear-sight receiver rail system. This rail rides as low as possible over the receiver cover, without replacing it. It attaches solidly at the rear sight base and the buttstock tang. This solid, anodized 7075 aluminum system provides 8 inches of Picatinny rail for attaching optics.
At the rear of the system is an AR-style peep sight with a small and large flip aperture that can be adjusted for elevation, as well as an AR-style windage adjustment knob. These iron sights are not only a huge improvement over the standard AK sights but also address another criticism of the AK: the short sight radius. The Krebs system extends the sight radius all the way to the rear of the receiver, a 60 percent improvement that increases the rifle’s accuracy potential. This system also allows for easy disassembly with an AR-style takedown pin at the rear, which allows the entire rail to rotate up for removal of the receiver cover. Standard AK disassembly is then possible for routine maintenance.
The fit and finish of the Krebs Custom AK-103K is flawless. Krebs has taken the standard Russian finish and replaced it with its KrebsKote solvent-proof finish. The end result is the best I have seen on an AK.
Range Time
At the range the AK-103K performed flawlessly with zero malfunctions of any sort and was extremely comfortable to shoot. The AK-74-style muzzle brake significantly reduced the rifle’s already light recoil, and the tuned trigger was very smooth with a 4.5-pound pull. This is still a standard AK-type single-stage trigger with a long degree of travel, which can make it difficult to tell when it will break, but it is still far better than most AK triggers I have used.
For accuracy testing I installed the Millet DMS scope with a quickly adjustable variable 1-4×24 illuminated reticle for low-light use, This scope is excellent both as a CQB sight and for engaging targets at distances out to 500 yards. The reticle has a simple 1-MOA dot surrounded by an 18-MOA donut, which can be used for range estimation. From a benchrest at 100 yards and using a mix of ammunition, the AK-103K performed very well, producing consistent 2- to 3-MOA results with several groups measuring under 2 MOA. This is excellent accuracy for a combat rifle.
AK fans have a lot of options and variety available to them today, considering all the different nations that have produced this classic rifle. But Marc Krebs of Krebs Custom really does stand out. Krebs cut his teeth as a gunsmith under the tutelage of master gunsmith Bob Dunlap and began building custom 1911s before venturing into military rifles. I for one am certainly glad that his interests settled on the AK, where in my opinion his innovation and custom work has produced one of the best AK variants available today.
Gun Review: Krebs Custom's AK-103K Rifle
That Guy
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While I'm confident that the SCAR will probably win, I really hope Beretta wins. Italian-Indian relations aren't that good, and it would be nice to gain another friendly relation within the EU. I mean, Italy and Pakistan already have good defense relations, with Pakistan manufacturing and using one of Italy's most advanced and popular drones, the Falco MAME UAV (Pakistan was the launch customer). This deal could very well open the flood gates for much further cooperation between the two.
Besides, the ARX is a really damn good service rifle, and it would be a worthy successor to the G3s and AKs.
Besides, the ARX is a really damn good service rifle, and it would be a worthy successor to the G3s and AKs.
Last edited:
Zarvan
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Yes we have always remained more close to Italy as compared to India. Still FN SCAR should win because from different versions to far less recoil and more accuracy it offers everything. AK-103 is now a 25 year old Gun if we go for it I am pretty sure within 15 years we would be looking for new Gun.
@kaonalpha Sir as cat is out of the bag. I have few questions one is if 14 companies wanted to come why only 5 were allowed ? Second question is as winter trials are over can you get the info which Gun is leading right now. I hope and pray for FN SCAR.
Immanuel
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Trials are one thing, I never said SCAR wasn't under trials. However, if others including Turkish rifles clear trials then in all in cases the lowest bidder wins, so SCAR won't make it into service unless its the only contender that will clear trials, very unlikely. Regardless of local manufacture, SCAR won't cost anything less than $2500 per unit including licencing fees and let alone without any sort of optics.
Kompromat
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Amaa'n
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i think you are confusing CZ from Czech Republic - the manufacturer of CZ75, CZ 806 Bren with that of Zastava Arms from Serbia - the manufacturer of CZ 999 Scorpion & M77 / M21
Immanuel
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Because I know so, I live in Belgium and have very close contacts at FN. The average cost of this civilian spec rifle in the US is well over $3000. Mil spec versions cost more, for them to offer the Rifle in various configurations as you mention requires them to harmonize licencing fees and thus you can be sure if the deal does go through, it will be expensive and no rifle will cost less then $2500 per unit.
DESERT FIGHTER
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You don't try a rifle you can't buy... That's logic... Not Indian logic!
Turkish rifle isn't even trials...
Try
CZ A2
ARX 200
AK-103
Scar H
M-77B mod
Boy.. You are one annoying cheap little chap!
First you claimed Pak can't even try Scar .. Than when we post pics of The weapons under trial .. You shamelessly claim we can afford it ? That's a dumbass logic..
Immanuel
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Well then the AK-103 will win, quite simply because it will mostly clear trials and will be among the lowest bidders.
Boy you have issues reading, I never said Pak can't try SCAR. I also never said, you can't afford it, I am only saying it's quite expensive. Learn to read and stop talking about things I never said.
RAMPAGE
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No I'm not. Why do you say that?
kaonalpha
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Apparently what our pure and innocent army brats don't realize , is that lobbying is all most everywhere also we had to go for a poor man's choice, but since the chief has given a shut up call to DG budget and R&D branch , who have taken all chiefs prior for a cheap alternative ride. Plus we had to be sure that the company would provide a proper license for the next 30 decades. Also we are investing in other defense procurement including the Umkhonto missile defence system.
