Pakistan's Service Rifle (G-3, Type-56) Replacement Competition 2016.

[django]

I said I would get info on the guns, the current situation according to my source is this: 1) money is not an issue, any weapon can be chosen. 2) Army wants to get a modular weapon: lightweight, multicalibre, reliable as compared to G3. 3) G3 is leading in terms of accuracy and reliability. 4) results were supposed to be announced in July but weren't because they weren't conclusive and another winter trial was announced.

This was the message by a reliable friend who messaged me few minutes ago
@Arsalan @Quwa @RAMPAGE and others

I presume you are referring to SCAR.

 

[Zarvan]

I presume you are referring to SCAR.

When it comes to accuracy G3 still is best but in all other aspects SCAR is better but Pakistan will go for one other winter trials before taking final decision. Debate is also taking place about caliber. The question is between 7.62 x 39 vs 7.62 x 51. @balixd @Arsalan

 

[Army research]

If it is light weight multi calibre then I believe that @Zarvan should be happy that scar is coming well no final conclusion left waiting for announcement god damn I'm itching to use what ever the hell's gonna come

 

[Zarvan]

If it is light weight multi calibre then I believe that @Zarvan should be happy that scar is coming well no final conclusion left waiting for announcement god damn I'm itching to use what ever the hell's gonna come

No announcement in near future. All the rifles will go through one more winter and than final decision would be taken.

 

[Sine Nomine]

The question is between 7.62 x 39 vs 7.62 x 51.

I knew it from days of sawat and induction of Type 56-2 in large number in 2011,39 proved it's worth in all over Pakistan,soldiers were happy after getting Type 56 becuse it's robust mechanism,effective caliber and deadly firepower along reduction in weight of both weapon and ammunition guaranteed survival in CQB and mountainous warfare,also we first time came across 7.62x39 in siachen conflict and simply it's amazing.

 

[CHI RULES]

I can only speculate.

PA is known to be the least corrupt institute within Pakistan, but they are still prone to corrupt practices. There have always been accusations that some acquisitions that PA has made in the past were a direct result of bribery, but those have never been proven.

Will it affect this competition? I want to say unlikely, but I honestly don't know.

The biggest problem is that no one will question the end result, precisely because the army is so powerful. If corruption ends up influencing the end result, you can bet that no one will say a word, and any evidence of it will be destroyed.

Dear Sir, it is evident that in most of defense deals especially regarding third world or Muslim countries element of corruption in one way or other is always there. Foreign suppliers and govt officials/ brokers every one gets his share. We clear proof in case of Augosta 90 B subs and some clues regarding F16 deals with tied hands.

Further allegations repeated regarding sights of Pak MBTs.

Same allegations/proofs are common in India like Bofors. However question should be how much the incoming weapon is useful for a country. As Bofors proved to be much useful for IA meanwhile Augosta 90 b forming main cluster of PN subs fleet.

 

[The Eagle]

@Zarvan Bhai you may like to read, found it interesting.

BREAKING: Heckler & Koch CONFIRMED Winner of French AIF Rifle Contract; FN to Appeal French Decision

@balixd @Arsalan @others

 

[Zarvan]

@Zarvan Bhai you may like to read, found it interesting.

BREAKING: Heckler & Koch CONFIRMED Winner of French AIF Rifle Contract; FN to Appeal French Decision

@balixd @Arsalan @others

Yes but for some reason HK-417 is not in Pakistani trials although if Pakistan is going for another winter trials than I hope HK-417 also joins the competition and I would love to see HK-417 and FN SCAR H competing against each other.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Since FN lost out on in France, I imagine Pakistan would have a little more leverage in requesting lucrative commercial offsets and valuable technology transfer.

 

[Amaa'n]

Yes but for some reason HK-417 is not in Pakistani trials although if Pakistan is going for another winter trials than I hope HK-417 also joins the competition and I would love to see HK-417 and FN SCAR H competing against each other.

BUT BUT BUT!!!!!!!! ........ i thought SCAR was best of the best and acing at all the tests --- how could it loose to HK???

 

[The Eagle]

Since FN lost out on in France, I imagine Pakistan would have a little more leverage in requesting lucrative commercial offsets and valuable technology transfer.

This is going to be interesting through this aspect, indeed because FN would never wish to loose another market like this that too for the bigger order but it would be interesting if FN agreed to some kind of transfer etc. May be our observers may take out the opportunity.
@Zarvan bhai one thing for sure, Rifle is not going to be selected only on basis of rounds fired in different atmosphere and weather but it has to do more with Price and ToT and other parameters/benefits supporting our budget.

 

[Arsalan]

@Zarvan Bhai you may like to read, found it interesting.

BREAKING: Heckler & Koch CONFIRMED Winner of French AIF Rifle Contract; FN to Appeal French Decision

@balixd @Arsalan @others

Well it is good news for us i think. FN will be under some pressure and IF we chose SCAR we MAY be able to get a better deal out of them. Also the results will put to rest some of the absurd claims of superiority of SCAR on all the gun the world have seen. It was being CONFIRMED as the winner and the tone was like it is SURE that we are going for SCAR. I have been ALWAYS trying to explain that there will be MANY OTHER FACTORS that will be considered while making a final decision. We may end up with SCAR but it is by no means the right time to make those ridiculous claims of it being confirmed. There are SO MAY things to be evaluated and looked upon other than performance!!!
Things were blown out of proportion and i really really thank you for sharing this new pieces, i hope some common sense will prevail now.

BUT BUT BUT!!!!!!!! ........ i thought SCAR was best of the best and acing at all the tests --- how could it loose to HK???

Sharartain!!!


It may well be the best but that wont be the ONLY thing people will consider while choosing the rifle for the WHOLE army. (i am not saying this to you, i know you already know this )

 

[Amaa'n]

This is going to be interesting through this aspect, indeed because FN would never wish to loose another market like this that too for the bigger order but it would be interesting if FN agreed to some kind of transfer etc. May be our observers may take out the opportunity.
@Zarvan bhai one thing for sure, Rifle is not going to be selected only on basis of rounds fired in different atmosphere and weather but it has to do more with Price and ToT and other parameters/benefits supporting our budget.

all lot more factors dear this is why i stopped responding to this thread because it had turn more into fanfest then actually discussing something concrete --- ofcourse it will depend on the number of rounds fired and the reliability of the weapon itself but the deal breaker question will be of ToT, Pricing, and Kickbacks / filling up the deep pockets of Generals (you hear it right)

Sharartain!!!


It may well be the best but that wont be the ONLY thing people will consider while choosing the rifle for the WHOLE army. (i am not saying this to you, i know you already know this )

as i would like to call it dear--- Fauj is out for Chaskay these days ----- those involved in the trails of all this new procurement perhaps don't even know what are they looking for ----- they just keep on testing new systems be it Tank, Artillery of Small Arms ---- you do realize that in start of 2015 they were testing Handgun for the army, well they still havn't figured it out yet --- i think fate of the Rifles will be same

 

[Arsalan]

all lot more factors dear this is why i stopped responding to this thread because it had turn more into fanfest then actually discussing something concrete --- ofcourse it will depend on the number of rounds fired and the reliability of the weapon itself but the deal breaker question will be of ToT, Pricing, and Kickbacks / filling up the deep pockets of Generals (you hear it right)

as i would like to call it dear--- Fauj is out for Chaskay these days ----- those involved in the trails of all this new procurement perhaps don't even know what are they looking for ----- they just keep on testing new systems be it Tank, Artillery of Small Arms ---- you do realize that in start of 2015 they were testing Handgun for the army, well they still havn't figured it out yet --- i think fate of the Rifles will be same

I have been told and in fact assured that some of these trials and evaluations that gets our people all excited and “claiming” all sorts of things are just stunts for political pressure building and alliances etc. There might not be much happening any time soon (like in months or even a year or so). We need to understand that everything we praise or get a picture taken with it is not what we are SURE to buy. There are interests for reasons other than “buying” when it comes to military hardware and technology.

 

[Zarvan]

BUT BUT BUT!!!!!!!! ........ i thought SCAR was best of the best and acing at all the tests --- how could it loose to HK???

France tested FN SCAR L mainly not FN SCAR H buy the way a friend contacted some senior Army Guys they said money is not the issue and earlier results were supposed to be announced in July but now they may go for one more winter trials and debate is also taking place about caliber. Question is between 7.62 X 51 and 7.62 X 39.
@Arsalan @The Eagle

This is going to be interesting through this aspect, indeed because FN would never wish to loose another market like this that too for the bigger order but it would be interesting if FN agreed to some kind of transfer etc. May be our observers may take out the opportunity.
@Zarvan bhai one thing for sure, Rifle is not going to be selected only on basis of rounds fired in different atmosphere and weather but it has to do more with Price and ToT and other parameters/benefits supporting our budget.

Price is not the issue and yes everything we would buy weather Assault Rifle or Tank or IFV or Drone mostly would be with TOT. I am also hearing about Pakistan testing various future soldier programs starting from RATNIK 3. The kits will arrive soon for trials.