Pakistan's role remarkable in reducing violence: Indian Kashmir CM

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Kashmir leader notes Pakistan role in curbing violence​

Friday, 08 May, 2009 | 02:54 PM PST |

Kashmir's chief minister Omar Abdullah speaks to supports during an election camping rally in Ganderbal, 25 km east of Srinagar. -Reuters File Photo​

SRINAGAR: The chief minister of Indian Kashmir, Omar Abdullah, has acknowledged Pakistan's contribution to the 'remarkable' drop in violence in the volatile region in recent years.

A 20-year Muslim insurgency against Indian rule in the divided region has claimed more than 47,000 lives, but peace talks initiated between India and Pakistan in 2004 resulted in a sharp fall in violence levels.

'I would call it remarkable,' Abdullah told AFP in an interview this week at his high-security residence in the Kashmiri summer capital Srinagar.

'It would be impossible for levels of violence to be where they are if there wasn't some amount of influence being brought to bear from Pakistan,' Abdullah said.

'I tend to believe that we have reached this point because perhaps Pakistan has also realised it is not in their interest to have these levels of violence, which leads to the alienation of the people here,' he added.

India and Pakistan's territorial dispute over Kashmir has sparked two wars between the nuclear-armed South Asian rivals. Islamabad denies Indian charges that it trains and arms the insurgents operating in Indian Kashmir.

Abdullah's comments came against the backdrop of New Delhi's refusal to restart peace talks in the wake of the attacks on Mumbai in November last year that were blamed on a Pakistani-based militant group.

 

[A1Kaid]

It seems Pakistan has it's hand on the spigot of resistance in Kashmir...

So the violence has been reduced, so what next? Indian army continues to oppress, falsely imprison, beat, torture innocent people in J&K.

If we are to engage in action it ought to be directed at Indian military and it's infrastructure always, appeasing India's wishes is not the way to go about it.

Perhaps "give and take" should be pursued...

Pakistan gives India a major reduction in violence and resistance, what has Indian given in return?


Somebody's not playing their cards right...

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Pakistan gives India a major reduction in violence and resistance, what has Indian given in return?

I agree that there is little to be seen in the way of an effort towards normalization from India. Though dissenters would argue that the back channel diplomacy (that those familiar would say almost resulted in a resolution of several major issues), was a sign of engagement from India's side.

However, I find the GoI's excuse to back out of that dialog quite disingenuous. I think the Indians still have a a strong body of extremists who are not willing to take that last step - This would be the second effort under Musharraf that was scuttled by that hardline lobby in India.

Nonetheless, this does debunks the excuse so many Indian posters use here of 'Pakistan cutting down on supporting the insurgency', and also illustrates how essential Pakistan's role has been in bringing about peace in the valley. It also illustrates why Pakistan and its military and intelligence had absolutely no interest or role in the Mumbai attacks, because if that had been the case, then the violence in Kashmir would not have been brought down.

IMO the Indians have no excuse to start negotiations on resolving outstanding issues, but the extremist lobby there will find any and all excuses they can to not engage.

 

[A1Kaid]

I agree that there is little to be seen in the way of an effort towards normalization from India. Though dissenters would argue that the back channel diplomacy (that those familiar would say almost resulted in a resolution of several major issues), was a sign of engagement from India's side.

However, I find the GoI's excuse to back out of that dialog quite disingenuous. I think the Indians still have a a strong body of extremists who are not willing to take that last step - This would be the second effort under Musharraf that was scuttled by that hardline lobby in India.

Nonetheless, this does debunks the excuse so many Indian posters use here of 'Pakistan cutting down on supporting the insurgency', and also illustrates how essential Pakistan's role has been in bringing about peace in the valley. It also illustrates why Pakistan and its military and intelligence had absolutely no interest or role in the Mumbai attacks, because if that had been the case, then the violence in Kashmir would not have been brought down.

IMO the Indians have no excuse to start negotiations on resolving outstanding issues, but the extremist lobby there will find any and all excuses they can to not engage.

Correct AM, even when we give the Indians fewer and fewer reasons not to negotiate a genuine resolution, they always find another excuse to delay regional progress. India is stalling the path to peace, Pakistan has given India many opportunities to settle this major territorial dispute, yet the extremist--Hindu fanatics and other hardliners and irrational people on the Indian side weigh in and prevent true progress.

INDIA: If it's not the resistance in Kashmir, it's this that's bothering us, this and that, this and that...


I have long argued it is not necessarily in India's interest to resolve the Kashmir dispute as much as it is in Pakistan's interest.

Kashmir gives India an excuse to spend an extremely large amount of money on it's military, when India's true goal is regional and perhaps in the long run World power. For India, it is not simply about Kashmir, it is about it's long aim of Asian hegemony, many Pakistani and Chinese scholars have taken note of this.

We see India's military adventurism/intervention in Sri Lanka, we saw it in E.Pakistan, in Nepal, in Maldives, some say China, Kashmir, and now Afghanistan.


More pressure should be brought upon India, to give us something in return or else.

 

[wtf]

Correct AM, even when we give the Indians fewer and fewer reasons not to negotiate a genuine resolution, they always find another excuse to delay regional progress. India is stalling the path to peace, Pakistan has given India many opportunities to settle this major territorial dispute, yet the extremist--Hindu fanatics and other hardliners and irrational people on the Indian side weigh in and prevent true progress.

Indian views are slightly different.

First when the relations were getting peaceful, there was the parliament attack. Next time when Indian PM went to Pakistan and Pakistan reciprocated, there was Kargil. The third time, while back channel diplomacy happened, there was the Mumbai attacks.

This gave rise to the impression that Pakistan does not speak with one voice - in the sense that Pakistan government cannot speak for all of its people.

Now with the movement against terror in Pakistan, India really has a reason to trust Pakistan. But then the elections are on and once elections are done with, we need some time to do "horse trading", bribing MP's, forming political alliances and a government. Unless bureaucrats are running the show, the dialogs will be delayed for a while more in my opinion.

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We are thankful that terrorism has reduced , but in my opinion, stopping terrorist movement across borders is not "giving India something". If I were a thief and then stopped stealing, can I claim "I gave something to the society?". Or in a more appropriate argument, If I kept a dog that kept shitting on my neighbours yard, and finally I locked up the dog, can I expect the neighbour to pay me for that ?

Not killing civilians is something that every civilized nation is required to do. Otherwise, India could some terrorists to Pakistan and then stop it and claim "we gave Pakistan something". That sort of argument legitimizes terrorism as a state policy.

It is a good thing that Pakistan has done and sets the stage for talks.As long as moderates are in power in India, I am hopeful.

 

[Rabbit.Rabbit]

What an absurd remark. Its like thanking a murderer for shooting you in the head and not the guts.

 

[Jihad]

What an absurd remark. Its like thanking a murderer for shooting you in the head and not the guts.

Oh please, don't look at it with those gloomy glasses.
Look at it from a different perspective, try a non-American one, or not an anti-Pakistani one, and maybe then we'll take your posts credible.
Perhaps have a name change too, it adds an extra plus to your intelligence, Rabbit.Rabbit.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

What an absurd remark. Its like thanking a murderer for shooting you in the head and not the guts.

The 'murderer' being the nation occupying a people and their territory in blatant violation of UNSC resolutions and its own commitments.

Lets not start the same arguments again in an attempt to take the moral high ground.

 

[Halaku Khan]

Pakistan needs to first take action against the Mumbai culprits. Pakistan's complicity in Mumbai 26/11 is conclusively demonstrated by the absurd lengths to which the Pak govt went in trying to hide the terrorists' origins. Kasab's parents are apparently still missing, though some newspapers did manage to track them down before they disappeared.

Also, the Jihadi orgs are still being given sanctuary. A recently arrested Jihadi in J&K was trained on the estate of Masood Azhar's brother. This was after Mumbai 26/11. He had flown to Dhaka by air and then infiltrated across the Indo-BD border. I don't believe that the Pakistani govt can be unaware of such activities, nor I don't see any action being taken against such people.

So, the bottleneck is not on the Indian side.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Pakistan needs to first take action against the Mumbai culprits.

Nonsense - India canceled the back channel negotiations long before Mumbai occurred.

The fact is that a virulently anti-Pakistan lobby in the Indian establishment continued to prevent the GoI from taking that last step towards normalization - we have seen this 'backing out at the last minute' by the GoI on multiple occasions now.

Or perhaps it isn't a lobby, but the irrationally anti-Pakistan nature of a significant amount of the Indian political and security establishment. We already know what sort of daily 'hate Pakistan' diet the Indian media feeds the populace.

The Mumbai issue is but the latest pretext drummed up, and had India not withdrawn from the talks months before Mumbai, it might have even been a credible excuse.

 

[Halaku Khan]

Nonsense - India canceled the back channel negotiations long before Mumbai occurred.

Not true - India had nobody to talk to after Musharraf got destabilized. Now punish the culprits, provide a credible interlocuter, and we're back in business.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Not true - India had nobody to talk to after Musharraf got destabilized.

That is incorrect, this was back-channel diplomacy after all, not official negotiations towards a final resolution, The two major contenders for government (the PPP and PML-N) were on record as calling for normalization and engaging in dialog with India, so we had the military establishment and all major political parties on board - there was no reason to not continue the dialog, or restart it after the elections.

We saw neither.

Governments will always come and go - India has seen coalition governments last for a few months. The current elections may result in a similarly fragile coalition government. Dialog and progress towards normalization cannot be held hostage to that.

And as I pointed out this was not the only incident of India backing out at the last minute - all this points to some strong anti-Pakistan/anti-normalization sections in the Indian establishment.

 

[wtf]

Nonsense - India canceled the back channel negotiations long before Mumbai occurred.

Yeah and Musharraf personally told you that, right? Don't bring in unsubstantiated allegations. Quote a report blaming India for the failure of dialog pre-Mumbai if you can find it. Any one, even from a Pakistani source.

If Indian statements are to be believed, Musharraf getting kicked out of power stalled the dialog and the Mumbai massacre ended it.

 

[wtf]

And as I pointed out this was not the only incident of India backing out at the last minute - all this points to some strong anti-Pakistan/anti-normalization sections in the Indian establishment.

Indian govt. is on the record that they will start talking after Mumbai culprits are prosecuted. With claiming Kasab is not a citizen, dithering over whether to move forces into Kashmir, whether to move forces out of Kashmir etc. ione could say Pak govt. was the one wasting time.

I would not consider elections in India a time wasting tactic. It is the core of Indian democracy and Kashmir can wait while we decide what we do with the country.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Indian govt. is on the record that they will start talking after Mumbai culprits are prosecuted. With claiming Kasab is not a citizen, dithering over whether to move forces into Kashmir, whether to move forces out of Kashmir etc. ione could say Pak govt. was the one wasting time.

I would not consider elections in India a time wasting tactic. It is the core of Indian democracy and Kashmir can wait while we decide what we do with the country.

The issue over Kasab was a matter of principle - Pakistan could not merely accept whatever India said without any evidence. That coupled with the hostility and scapegoating on display from both the GoI and the Indian media tied the GoP's hands on Kasab politically sine there was a reactionary hostility in Pakistan towards India after that.

Once evidence was officially shared through the 'dossier', the GoP came out to confirm Kasab was Pakistani.

And what forces into and out of Kashmir are you talking about?

And finally, the argument is not of what India is doing now, post Mumbai, it is the fact that India backed out at the last minute and did not resume negotiations before Mumbai.

Mumbai has merely provided the GoI with another excuse.