Pakistan’s response to Indian Cold Start doctrine

[Kompromat]

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All wishful thinking...including training civilians.As for cruise missile deterrence,there would be Brahmos & conventionally armed Shaurya's to do the same with Pakistan.And there is no need to mobilize India's total air and naval power.

Wishful thinking says an Indian who doesn't know what a Pakistani civilian is made of. In no war with India or any other invasion would our military be fighting by itself. Even military and govt combined won't be able to hold back the armed civilians from joining combat.

Indian Navy and Airforce cannot project its total power for a host of reasons and it has nothing to do with if India wants to or not. The question is IF India can afford to or not as it has more enemies than Pakistan while Pakistan has only one enemy. Not to forget that if India brings in all of its assets to the fight, it would be regarded as a full scale attack and would be treated as such with consequences of the same magnitude.

 

[GR!FF!N]

Did i say that PLAAF will fight for Pakistan?

My question is if IAF is going to allocate all of its assets to Pakistan while leaving the field empty for PLAAF inside India. IAF also has to take into account, its own balance of power vis-a-vis China.

and you failed to understand my point.there is very few PLAAF activity in general.so,unless PLAAF tries to interfere,there'd be no worry about them.but even they try to interfere,India would be deal with as India is not only formulated,but also validated bringing a resource from a part of India to engage in another part(sometimes few thousand KMs away).plus,its highly unlikely that China would ever mount a massive assault over India as that in case will complicate the situation beyond control as India has its own spades and backings.and as you discounted the chance of Russia,Israel and USA's(along with few other strategic friends) assistance to India if dire need arises,its a whole new dimension which China will evade without any doubt.plus,no country now mount a battle with neighbour to "protect strategic partner",forget about largest business partner.all China could do is supply equipment.

 

[The SC]

Very flawed logic. Why India would disperse Its navy on all coasts when Pakistan has no capability to attack eastern coasts or even lower half of western coast. Only if still you'd have East Pakistan then may be but not anymore. Anyway your navy is a defensive force with very limited offensive capability.

keep your flawed logic rhetoric to your self, India has to keep it forces dispersed, by force of nature, China is looming around , how stupid one can be to have to be explained this.

 

[gslv mk3]

Wishful thinking says an Indian who doesn't know what a Pakistani civilian is made of. In no war with India or any other invasion would our military be fighting by itself. Even military and govt combined won't be able to hold back the armed civilians from joining combat.

Yeah right,martial race theory and stuff.

Indian Navy and Airforce cannot project its total power for a host of reasons and it has nothing to do with if India wants to or not. The question is IF India can afford to or not as it has more enemies than Pakistan while Pakistan has only one enemy. Not to forget that if India brings in all of its assets to the fight, it would be regarded as a full scale attack and would be treated as such with consequences of the same magnitude.

Is there any need for IAF/IN to project its total power?For countering PN,just Western Naval Command would be needed.Realise that IAF & IN has advantage of numbers.

 

[rockstarIN]

Few reply @Aeronaut

Pakistan can declare Jihad as a state, making it a religious responsibility to its 85 million arm bearing citizens to mobilize to the battlefield. Indian forces would not be able able to outnumber Pakistani combatants, nor the Pakistani Govt is going to be able to keep its armed civilians locked in their homes in wake of an Indian invasion.

The first thing will be evacuation of civilians, ppl will run away than fighting Indian Army. Do not fall into fallacies that civilians will defend in a conventional war.

80% of Pakistani armor has Night and fog fighting capability compared to 20-25% Indian armor.

BS about Indian figure. Do not fall the trap of Army voice which was intended to MoD for more funding and fastening the procurement.

Pakistan will be able to mobilize its total air and naval power while India cannot, since it has to allocate assets to China and Bangladesh fronts.

Go through Iron first 2013, planes flew from eastern border and bombed in Rajanstan. ITS A MYTH.

400 jets participated in that exercise for an attack of few hours. flew from different directions. There is always +ves for having heavy fighter jets.

Its well oiled war machine man, IA strike corps are practising the thrust now at Thar including 200+ tanks and armory.

 

[The SC]

THERE IS NO SUCH 'COLD START' DOCTRINE IN THE INDIAN ARMY!! PERIOD!!!!!

How many times do these guys like the OP have to be told this? Their morbid fear of an Indian juggernaut across Pakistan and their delusions of a counter strike with tactical nukes and so on are getting to be hilarious!

Epic fail!

Nothing to discuss here. Move on..

It is your arrogance that is hilarious to the OP.

 

[gslv mk3]

It is your arrogance that is hilarious to the OP.

India has no 'Cold Start' doctrine: Army chief - Economic Times

 

[MilSpec]

Who will guard your 'rather large' airspace from the Chinese if IAF is focused on Pakistan entirely ?
Plus PAF's F/7P/PG - Mirage III/V fleet is not yet obsolete.

Minimum Credible deterrence I guess.... Nukes Shouldn't be working just for pakistan's case I guess...

More importantly why would China Invade India, and risk Bilateral trade worth 70 billion dollar trade.... almost 30% of Pakistan's total GDP

 

[OrionHunter]

It is your arrogance that is hilarious to the OP.

Silly man, when you know squat about India's military doctrines, don't spew tripe out here, especially when you have never served in the Army.

Indian Army chief: "There is nothing called 'Cold Start'. As part of our overall strategy we have a number of contingencies and options, depending on what the aggressor does. In the recent years, we have been improving our systems with respect to mobilization, but our basic military posture is defensive."

Former Indian defence minister Jaswant Singh also denied the existence of the doctrine, stating, "There is no Cold Start doctrine. No such thing. It was an off-the-cuff remark from a former chief of staff. I have been defense minister of the country. I should know."

Damn! Why do kids out here keep shooting from the hip and wasting everyone's time?

 

[MilSpec]

Did i say that PLAAF will fight for Pakistan?

My question is if IAF is going to allocate all of its assets to Pakistan while leaving the field empty for PLAAF inside India. IAF also has to take into account, its own balance of power vis-a-vis China.

India first and foremost will never initiate a conflict that it cannot win. And you are right, with current levels of PAF/PA inventory, winning against pakistan would not be possible. Thus India wont initiate any conflict against pakistan, It was shamelessly clear from 26/11 when Indian establishment basically said, do what ever you want, we wont initiate any fights.....

Indian Patience is a well calculated one, today the numbers, assets, both covert and overt may not be on India's favor, but then you know this very well that these equations do not remain static. Nature of warfare is undergoing transformation, new frontiers of combat have wide arenas, social, political, economical and Military, and I guess battlefield nuke is not going to cover all ends in pakistan afterall....

 

[illusion8]

Did i say that PLAAF will fight for Pakistan?

My question is if IAF is going to allocate all of its assets to Pakistan while leaving the field empty for PLAAF inside India. IAF also has to take into account, its own balance of power vis-a-vis China.

Present day war has changed, the actual war starts in the newsrooms and diplomatic circles before even the first battalion makes it's move. In today's war a side first starts gathering support and validation for it's intended actions from all sides.

It needs to prove that we have tried all possible avenues and that war is the last and final option that was available. China like any other country too comes into this scenario and for all intents and purposes will side with the one that it sees as the right side.

India will not voluntarily attack Pakistan for no reason, and in the event that it moves its forces - there will be valid reasons for it and those reasons will be validated by most of the world powers including China. The Chinese very well know that India is not a irresponsible country that will initiate war without reason. In the event that China stills poses a threat even after there has been proved that there are legitimate reasons to go to war then the rest of the countries in the support group come into play - either diplomatically or in any other form.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

India has no 'Cold Start' doctrine: Army chief - Economic Times

That just an expected claim by a army chief whose doctrine is all dependent on secrecy and surprise. But remember always that we have a very vibrant intel network so yr secrets cant stay hidden forever.

 

[illusion8]

Wishful thinking says an Indian who doesn't know what a Pakistani civilian is made of. In no war with India or any other invasion would our military be fighting by itself. Even military and govt combined won't be able to hold back the armed civilians from joining combat.

Involving civilians in direct conflict goes against humanitarian law under Geneva convention - it opens the door for undesired attacks against civilian populations.

 

[OrionHunter]

Wishful thinking says an Indian who doesn't know what a Pakistani civilian is made of. In no war with India or any other invasion would our military be fighting by itself. Even military and govt combined won't be able to hold back the armed civilians from joining combat.

Indian Navy and Airforce cannot project its total power for a host of reasons and it has nothing to do with if India wants to or not. The question is IF India can afford to or not as it has more enemies than Pakistan while Pakistan has only one enemy. Not to forget that if India brings in all of its assets to the fight, it would be regarded as a full scale attack and would be treated as such with consequences of the same magnitude.

Aeronaut, I thought you could do better than that. Your post was way off the mark.

Wishful thinking says an Indian who doesn't know what a Pakistani civilian is made of.

So, what are Pakistani civilians made off? Are they from planet Krypton and therefore indestructible?

Let's compare civilian stats.

India
Total Population: 1,220,800,359
Available Manpower: 615,201,057
Fit for Service: 489,571,520
Active Reserve Personnel: 2,143,000

Pakistan
Total Population: 193,238,868
Available Manpower: 93,351,401
Fit for Service: 75,326,989
Active Reserve Personnel: 515,000

India has 4 time the active reserve personnel than Pakistan. The usual bombast that 10 Hindus = 1 Pakistani is so much bluster. And your civilians joining the army in case of war is laughable! Unless of course you are Israelis where every civilian is trained and served in the defence forces! Have you?

Even military and govt combined won't be able to hold back the armed civilians from joining combat.

Get real! Do you even know what you're talking about? Probably Gen Zaid Hamid would lead the rag tag civilian brigades in an all out attack against Indian Armed Forces who would run helter skelter on seeing the invaders!!

Or are you talking about those LeT/JeM yahoos who are supposed to be the PA's 'strategic assets'? They are just so much cannon fodder!

Indian Navy and Airforce cannot project its total power for a host of reasons

Really? What reasons?

The question is IF India can afford to or not as it has more enemies than Pakistan while Pakistan has only one enemy.

So? More enemies like? What have they got to do in the event of a purely bilateral Indo-Pak conflict? Would China come to your aid? That is a delusion you guys can do without. It will never ever happen. No country would interfere militarily in an Indo-pak war. Period!

And China especially would never support Pakistan in the event of a war. After all, Sino-Indian trade is at $100 billion slated to reach $500 billion by 2020. Your trade with China is a measly $14 billion. So what have you got to offer China that they'll come to your aid in the event of an Indo Pak war? Would they like to risk their economy by supporting Pakistan militarily? Is helping Pakistan in China's national interest? No! What's in it for them? Nix!

Remember, in international relations, there are no permanent friends, only permanent interests!

 

[T90TankGuy]

This is 2014, changes came to India as well as to pakistan. We are not talking about the same armies technology-wise anymore.
In 1971 PAK armed forces were weak, and were almost in their infancy, they still could hold against Indian much mor experienced armed fores , since they were the extentions of the british heritage while Pakistan was forming its Armed Forces from scratch.
Today PAK's armed forces are mature, well equiped and experienced. that makes a huge difference, it like you ere brown belt in Karsate fighting against a yellow belt that has very few training but a lot of indstinct for fighting, and today , like you are black belt, and wants to fight with a black belt, if not with a tenth dan like China.

Dont say that !!!! most Pakistani members here will not agree to that statement