Pakistan's Nuclear Submarine Development | News and Discussions

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

We are MAKING one !!!! not seeking

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

Pakistan Should maintain its Naval surface and submerged fleet in coming 5-7 years like this:

1- 11 AIP SSKs - 8 S20 capable to fire Babur(1000 Km variant) + 3 Augosta 90B
2- At least 2 SSBN till 2022
Total Submarine fleet shoudl be 13 or 14 till 2022

3- 15 Frigates of displacement ( 2500 tons Type F22P - 4000 Type 54A)
It could be 4 more F-22P and 4-6 Type 54A but with VLS SAM having atleast 50 Km range or more.

4- There should be 5 destroyers of 7500 tons displacement like Type 052D Destroyers with long range VLS SAM having range 100+ Km.

5- 10 missile boats equipped with CM-104K and Harpoon Block-II.

6- 10 boats for coastal and maritime security.

7- Two Squadrons of heavy weight long range figther-bomber.

You have given a wish list that would take far longer then Pakistan Navy can afford.

Presently PN needs
1) To replace number of frigates i.e Tariq Clas (type 21).
There were supposed to be replaced by FFG-7 Class (Oliver Hazard Perry) which did not materialise.

2) Enhance maritime petrol of the Indian Ocean against Pirates.
8 GRC- 43M Cutters are on order. All these might come in by 2019 provided no sanctions.

3) Protection of Gwadar
8 Type 022 Houbei Class Fast Attack Craft are on order.

4) Protection of EEZ
So far nothing has been decided on how PN would operate in this area.

5) Replacement of Agosta -70 Submarines
8 S-20 are on order.

Coastal defence requirements require Pakistan Coast Guard to enhance their capabilities. This would require some thing similar to Larkana Class and Global response cutters along with smaller fast moving boats.

Now what you are saying in regards to getting Destroyers. PN might not like to buy them for some time as this would increase the operating costs. For now PN has her hands full on replacing old with new and also building fleet tanker and landing ships.

PN and PAF both require Twin engine heavy deep strike platforms. If they both combine their resources then we could see a decent number of aircraft that would supplement JF-17's.

You are proposing a wish list which is unrealistic. Firstly we aont have even our 8 subs ready and inducted by 2022 much less think of SSNs.
Secondly the ships are no where in site . Given a lapse of 3-4 yrs for the fisrt ship to appear after an order has been placed and roughly 1.5-2 yrs between each ship it will be a long time before you see a surface fleet of that size.
The destroyers are not happenning.
The twin engines are not on the cards though i would love them to be.
The total budget for the expansion would be 10 billion which would flatten our meek economy.
A

Very true...

Although this is a wish list but if you see in coming 5-7 or may be 5-10 years these would be required by navy to protect its maritime supply routes and also to protect vital assets on our coast line.
As far as my list is concerned, out of this list points 1,3,5 and 6 are Navy's immediate need and it also described by Navy that they need to expand their surface and submerged fleet as CPEC is progressing. This was from high level Navy commanders.
Yes SSN or SSBN, Destroyers and Twin-engine fighters are currently not on cards. But in future PN have to go for them because of massive expansion of Indian Navy.

But for next 5-7 Years even till 2025 i am confident that Navy will procure 8 S20 AIP SSks, atlaest 6 Frigates most probably updated F22Ps and may be other from USA or China, and offcource Missile boats are coming and the maritime security boats as well.
See if they procure only 6 more frigates in coming 5-7 years or till 2025 which is quite likely then the size of surface fleet will reach easily till 15 including old British Type-21 Frigates.

And for Missile boats, they are building in Pak and can be imported from China with CM-400 AKG.

For Last Point, Yes i am agree with you that twin engine is not on cards, but to overcome this issue currently JF-17 equiped with C-802 and CM-400 with IFR can supplement to some extend twin engine long range fighter bomber.

The time line can be reduced if Pakistan Navy opts for used frigates...Some thing like the Italians are offering or wait till the Meko Class Frigates are available.

I think the time frames which you suggest are unrealistic. With our current inept Government how do you think we will raise the capital resources even in 10 yrs to support all the armaments. It is not just the navy but also other arms which will want resources which are and will remain scant for the forseeable future. People have wet dreams about the CPEC potentials but let us not count our chicks till they have HATCHED.The main problem is even with all the will the time frame may not be enough for the developemnts. To give you an example the Sub deal has been in discussion with the Chinese since 2011 and finally signed in 2015-6. add latency of 3-4 yrs and it will be a decade before you see the results of any buys that you make.People talk about getting ships from here and there but it is not happening and wont happen in the near future.
I think the reality is that we may have to think small, ie smaller 500tons missile boats and corvettes in the 15oo ton range so we can increase numbers while keeping costs down.
But lets see how this situation evolves.
Araz

Some time back there was news regarding nuclear submarine for PN, Some work was being done but after that there is no news regarding this project. There is also no news if this project is indigenous or a JV. The main reason to believe that this was a JV was due to the fact Pakistan might not be capable of miniaturising the Nuclear Reactor to fit it in a submarine.

Moreover when the news of 8 S-20 submarines came there was also a news regarding PN is interested in procuring some western subs also. This means PN is no more considering the Nuclear sub and the project if it existed has been put in cold storage or disbanded for good. So far there is no news on Pakistan looking for some more western subs, but in one of the recent news read some thing about Italy offering Pakistan ships, subs and helicopters. How true this news can be one would have to wait and see.

 

[Jana Assassin]

Go get some knowledge about SSBN a French one can cost above 3.5 billion a Russian & Chinese can cost 1.5 Billion American are above 2 billion

Hey fool read it carefully a typical ssbn costs 2.5 billion...

so we cant lease one N-sub ? like India did ?

It is possible but u need a strategic partner who understands ur needs nd is ready to help u no mattr wat the international rxn is...

 

[MastanKhan]

Leasing a sub is better idea let give our sailors learn how to use monster underwater with chinese help

Only nuke country without nuke sub what a pitty shows how pissed of generals we have no idea what is needed most if we saved money of heli deals and f 16 could have leased nuke sub

Hi,

In our arena and our geographical location---we really don't need a nuc sub at this time---but rather a strike force of heavy strike aircraft with standoff weapons---.

The nuc subs are last chance last strike weapons----what we need is conventional strength.

 

[argonautluk]

I think other regional actors can intervene.

 

[BetterPakistan]

I feel we shall focus on acquiring those 8 submarines, 4 corvettes and helicopters from China for Pakistan Navy. As far as nuclear submarine is concerned, we shall not go for it now because we have second strike capability. Later after acquiring those 8 submarines we can go for 1 nuclear submarine and after that more.

 

[argonautluk]

I feel we shall focus on acquiring those 8 submarines, 4 corvettes and helicopters from China for Pakistan Navy. As far as nuclear submarine is concerned, we shall not go for it now because we have second strike capability. Later after acquiring those 8 submarines we can go for 1 nuclear submarine and after that more.

It is helpful. Thank you.

 

[Djinn]

Instead going for a SSBN i wonder if Pakistan has ever evaluated the possibility of going for a submarine like Type 032 Qing class. It is diesel electric capable of firing SLBMS, cruie missiles and torpedoes. Can stay submerged for 30 days which is more than sufficient for Pakistan and most importantly will have low acoustic signature as compared to a SSBN.

 

[Arsalan]

Do we need one right now?
I don't think so!!

 

[Super Falcon]

Hi,

In our arena and our geographical location---we really don't need a nuc sub at this time---but rather a strike force of heavy strike aircraft with standoff weapons---.

The nuc subs are last chance last strike weapons----what we need is conventional strength.

Sorry being a nuke country youust have all kind of platforms to launch havoc from all striking platform nuke sub is most important entire cold war era was hanging on strike of nuke subs

 

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

Can't Pakistan launch SLBMs from Qing class submarines.

 

[T-Rex]

Can't Pakistan launch SLBMs from Qing class submarines.

With little bit of modification I believe they can. This is the reason why the Qing clas has a bulging mid section. However, Pakistan won't get the Qing class, she'll get the S-20 which I believe is the export version of the Qing class and cannot accommodate IRBMs.

 

[Kinetic]

One nuclear submarine costs 1.5 billion dollar. Also China cannot sell it.

 

[JohnyD]

a work with china must already be going on to miniaturize the nuke reactor..But before the nuke sub, Pak might build couple of conventional subs with TOT from China and that will be used as the platform to come up with its own Nuke Sub....if not earlier than by 2025-30!

 

[Genghis khan1]

I think per US assessment Pakistan do have the expertise to build miniaturize nuclear reactor, it the matter of money, and will to endure pain for building a Sub from scratch up.