Pakistan's Nuclear Submarine Development | News and Discussions

[Kompromat]

Good for you . But still does not answer my question .

It will be a nuclear powered sub, carrying nuclear weapons. Nuclear power sub carrying conventional weapons is a bluff, we hope some of your Generals will buy into.

 

[SajeevJino]

It will be a nuclear powered sub, carrying nuclear weapons. Nuclear power sub carrying conventional weapons is a bluff, we hope some of your Generals will buy into.

Is that all Nuclear Powered Sub should Carry Nuke warheads

Many of the US SSGN carries both Conventional and Nuclear warheads

 

[kurup]

It will be a nuclear powered sub, carrying nuclear weapons. Nuclear power sub carrying conventional weapons is a bluff, we hope some of your Generals will buy into.

That answers my questions .

But the second part , you did not comprehend it well . I was talking about this forum .

Last time I checked , there was confusion regarding whether the sub will be nuke powered or conventional powered with nuke weapons .

As for Nuclear power sub carrying conventional weapons , there are plenty of them .

 

[Kompromat]

Is that all Nuclear Powered Sub should Carry Nuke warheads

Many of the US SSGN carries both Conventional and Nuclear warheads

Of-course not! - Analysts are considering Pakistan's Nasr to be a 'technological breakthrough' for Pakistan. There is chatter amongst the analysts at NDU in Islamabad that, Pakistan might be gearing up to develop 'Multiple Independently Targetable Reentry Vehicles' and 'Submarine Launched Ballistic Missiles'.

Current asset for Pakistan's 'Nuclear Triad' is going to be Sub launched Babur Cruise missile carrying tritium based fission nuclear device, for a 'credible 2nd strike capability'. Once we have our sub and an SLBM - the word 'credible' will vanish.

 

[Thorough Pro]

Who's laughing?

Thats a joke,right??

 

[Thorough Pro]

We might already have a nuclear powered sub, who needs to advertise and why? Who knows when we were retrofitting supposedly MESMA AIP's in Agosta's, one was a technical AIP not actually an AIP............

Of-course not! - Analysts are considering Pakistan's Nasr to be a 'technological breakthrough' for Pakistan. There is chatter amongst the analysts at NDU in Islamabad that, Pakistan might be gearing up to develop 'Multiple Independently Targetable Reentry Vehicles' and 'Submarine Launched Ballistic Missiles'.

Current asset for Pakistan's 'Nuclear Triad' is going to be Sub launched Babur Cruise missile carrying tritium based fission nuclear device, for a 'credible 2nd strike capability'. Once we have our sub and an SLBM - the word 'credible' will vanish.

Technically No! Strategically YES! Only advantage of a nuclear powered sub is its extended undetected endurance, that ensures a credible 2nd strike capability. Arming a nuclear powered sub with conventional weapons only does not make strategic or economic sense.

Is that all Nuclear Powered Sub should Carry Nuke warheads

Many of the US SSGN carries both Conventional and Nuclear warheads

Technically No! Strategically YES! Only advantage of a nuclear powered sub is its extended undetected endurance, that ensures a credible 2nd strike capability. Arming a nuclear powered sub with conventional weapons only does not make strategic or economic sense.

Is that all Nuclear Powered Sub should Carry Nuke warheads

Many of the US SSGN carries both Conventional and Nuclear warheads

 

[kurup]

Technically No! Strategically YES! Only advantage of a nuclear powered sub is its extended undetected endurance, that ensures a credible 2nd strike capability. Arming a nuclear powered sub with conventional weapons only does not make strategic or economic sense.

Then what about countries like US ,Russia , UK ,France , China who have deployed conventional weapons in their SSNs and SSGNs .

 

[Thorough Pro]

They carry both of them, and because they have more than sufficient number of platforms, they can afford to.

Then what about countries like US ,Russia , UK ,France , China who have deployed conventional weapons in their SSNs and SSGNs .

 

[gslv mk3]

Who's laughing?

I am start going to troll here,but still that comment-SLBM of a country that havent tested it yet,will be more reliable than an already tested one was really funny.

 

[MastanKhan]

I am start going to troll here,but still that comment-SLBM of a country that havent tested it yet,will be more reliable than an already tested one was really funny.

Hi,

It is not as simple as that----you have to look at the historical precedence of successes and failures of the past projects---. That is how you can determine the outcome in a more predictable manner.

 

[Mitro]

Good article regarding Pakistan Nuclear Submarine and makes sense too.


RUMINT suggests that Pakistan's nuclear submarine is likely to be based on the Qing Class Chinese SSK, which Pakistan is believed to receive 6 units of. Given the giant size of the Qing Class (5,000-6,000 tons), the submarine is ideally suited as the basis for a Pakistani SSN / SSBN. RUMINT also suggests that Pakistan is seeking a smaller sized nuclear sub that sacrifices speed for simplicity and ease of maintenance. The basic idea is that instead of hydraulic propulsion, the Pakistani subs will utilize an all-electric propulsion system that is charged by the nuclear power plant.


Such an arrangement fits in perfectly for the following reasons:

1. Pakistani SSNs/SSBNs do not need to keep up with a carrier group or large-scale task force; They are likely to operate solo, making the loss of possibly 3-5 knots in speed less relevant.

2. The Qing Class (and other SSKs) already have a highly advanced electric propulsion system. The Pakistani nuclear submarine would thus be a replacement of the diesel engine power generation with a nuclear power plant.

3. Electric propulsion has traditionally lagged behind hydraulic propulsion, but recent advances in the former has significantly reduced the gap in performance between the two.

4. Sets up future improvements in technology which are headed towards magnetohydrodynamic propulsion, saving on investment in hydraulic submarine propulsion which would have been a technological dead-end investment.

Taking a closer look at the possible type of nuclear power plant to be utilized, it is likely to be a small pressurized light water reactor. Such a reactor would require some R&D given that Pakistan does not have much expertise in light water reactors, and because the need for miniaturization. However, given Chinese expertise and potential assistance, this should not prove to be a difficult challenge to overcome. Moreover, Pakistan has a highly qualified and competent nuclear establishment that should be able to meet the challenge, insh'Allah.

Another potential help may have been the transfer of technology from France with the Agosta 90B submarine purchase. A number of key technologies were transferred including design and development skills and tools. Building of hulls and experience with Western subsystems, many of which are used in the French nuclear submarines would help the Pakistani SSN / SSBN, if it already has not found its way to the Chinese Qing Class.

In sum, while India is preparing her first indigenous nuclear submarine, Pakistan is well underway in making an equivalent capability upgrade. While the time-frame given in the media is 5-8 years, it is very possible that Pakistan is capable of building and fielding such a submarine in 3-5 years. The timeline for building and deploying such a sub is mainly dependent on how quickly and successfully the Indian nuclear submarine program is able to field and operate a submarine.


Read more: Grande Strategy

 

[gslv mk3]

Hi,

It is not as simple as that----you have to look at the historical precedence of successes and failures of the past projects---. That is how you can determine the outcome in a more predictable manner.

Failures are common in this field,especialy when you re trying to develop one on your own-check how many times Russia's Bulava SLBM Failed.Will you say that Pakistans theoretical SLBM would be better than Russia?
FYI DRDO have become mature-Their new missile systems -Agni III,IV and V,Shaurya and the like have been very much succesful.India alzo recently tested K15 SLBM from underwater pontoon,it has 900 km range and is probabily the only submarine based quasi ballistic missile,threr are reports of much larger K4 missile-quasi ballistic and 4000km range,will be tested next month.You should also look at one mote thing-which country is more advanced wrt key aread like propulsion,electronics and guidance,materials used and the like?

 

[krash]

Failures are common in this field,especialy when you re trying to develop one on your own-check how many times Russia's Bulava SLBM Failed.Will you say that Pakistans theoretical SLBM would be better than Russia?
FYI DRDO have become mature-Their new missile systems -Agni III,IV and V,Shaurya and the like have been very much succesful.India alzo recently tested K15 SLBM from underwater pontoon,it has 900 km range and is probabily the only submarine based quasi ballistic missile,threr are reports of much larger K4 missile-quasi ballistic and 4000km range,will be tested next month.You should also look at one mote thing-which country is more advanced wrt key aread like propulsion,electronics and guidance,materials used and the like?

Wasn't it that you guys only introduced solid fueled missiles many years after us? Come to think of it, Pakistani missiles on the whole were deployed ready before the Indian missiles, and I'm not talking about the Nodongs/Ghauris, I'm talking about the Shaheens and Baburs, etc. We have had a track record of doing things first, be it development or maturation. And what makes you say that Indian missiles are more advanced with respect to electronics and guidance?

Btw Mastankhan's post said that since historically we have seen less failures from the Pakistani missiles with respect to Indian missiles, it would automatically lead to assuming that the future developments will show the same trend, especially since all this is currently only hypothetical.

 

[gslv mk3]

Wasn't it that you guys only introduced solid fueled missiles many years after us?

India made first solid fuel rockets back in 60s,our first SLV was a solid fuel one.Indias Agni Technology demonstrator used solid fuel in first stage

Come to think of it, Pakistani missiles on the whole were deployed ready before the Indian missiles, and I'm not talking about the Nodongs/Ghauris, I'm talking about the Shaheens and Baburs, etc. We have had a track record of doing things first, be it development or
maturation.

No it does not,refer to my point above-Again India has preceeded Pakistan in nearly all fields related to missile technology-be that IRBMs,ICBM,SLBM,SAM,Quasi Ballistic Missiles and Ballistic missile defence and Supersonic Cruise missiles like Brahmos.

And what makes you say that Indian missiles are more advanced with respect to electronics and guidance?

Yes,it is a fact that India have a technological edge over Pakistan in fields like propulsion( worlds third largest solid rocket booster and ramjet engines,and is now working on Scramjets,)and guidance systems ( indigenous RLG based INS,better R&D and experience and regional navigation satellites ) and material technology(more r&d base in developing composites and alloys-heck they can even develop high perfomance alloys for Scramjets,can Pakistan develop such things?).Oh and India has eyes set on MIRV-remember Indian PSLV scoring world record by launching 10 satellites on a single mission?

Btw Mastankhan's post said that since historically we have seen less failures from the Pakistani missiles with respect to Indian missiles, it would automatically lead to assuming that the future developments will show the same trend, especially since all this is currently only hypothetical.

It is not correct,many Pakistani members have said that Pakistans balistic missile program is not entirely indigenous,meanwhile DRDO was struggling to develop those indigenously,Now we have the know how,Our SLBMs,ICBMs and Quasi ballistic missiles are.best in class.

If you cannot believe that fact,please look at our own space launch vehicle fleet.Do not ever say that A country that can put a probe in moons orbit cannot make a better SLBM than Pakistan.

 

[Safriz]

We might already have a nuclear powered sub, who needs to advertise and why? Who knows when we were retrofitting supposedly MESMA AIP's in Agosta's, one was a technical AIP not actually an AIP............ .

Stop living in fools paradise.
Do you know how much radiation shielding weighs?
That alone will sink Pakistan's tiny Agosta subs.