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Pakistan's Nuclear Submarine Development | News and Discussions

The nuclear powered submarine project - has achieved another milestone - suffice to say - it is a proud moment for all Pakistanis, and it proves that we can design highly efficient reactors able to fit into a confined space.
 
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The nuclear powered submarine project - has achieved another milestone - suffice to say - it is a proud moment for all Pakistanis, and it proves that we can design highly efficient reactors able to fit into a confined space.

What milestone?

Any link wud be helpfull...
 
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yaar..fill the blanks ? That China has agreed to give you one? hopefully not this...

The reactor miniaturization process started in the late 90s/early 2000s according several senior members and a moderator here (read the thread). If you want official confirmation, you won't get it until the nuke sub is ready to launch.

If that's not enough for you, feel free to believe whatever you want.
 
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even the germans in WORLD WAR 1 kept its navy in its harbors because the British navy was too mighty for it to challenge. Pakistan navy should ensure that its supply routes & harbors are safe & not blocked! the "offensive" is not an option in an india vs pakistan naval battle.

Kept in port? 1914&1916 Bombardments of British coast e.g. Yarmouth, 1915 Dogger bank, 1916 Jutland, 1917 unrestricted submarine warfare?
World War 1 at Sea

Exactly. I was thinking the same. Kept in port. Seriously Ice man?
 
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Any Idea about time line of this nuke sub to be perational?
Still no time line is available for Qing Class subs which Pakistan will buy from China?

Anyways...Good Luck Pak Navy.
 
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Recent reports from Pakistan seem to suggest the Pakistan Navy (PN) may be on the cusp of developing a naval nuclear missile capability, even as its plans for acquiring a nuclear submarine capability gradually become clearer. The first indication of this came in May 2012 when Pakistan tested the Hatf VII (Babur)—an indigenously developed Cruise Missile with high precision and manoeuvrability. Reports suggested that the missile was launched from a state-of-the-art multi-tube Missile Launch Vehicle (MLV), which significantly enhances the targeting and employment options of the Babur Weapon System in both the conventional and nuclear modes. Importantly, this is the third test of the Babur in the recent past, of different capacities and loads.

Then, in another significant development, on May 19, the PN inaugurated the Headquarters of the Naval Strategic Force Command (NSFC). A statement from the Pakistan military’s Inter Services Public Relations said that the NSFC “will perform a pivotal role in development and employment of the Naval Strategic Force,” and was “the custodian of the nation’s 2nd strike capability” – presumably for use against India, in case the need ever arose. This is noteworthy because Pakistan is not known to have a sea-based second strike capability. Therefore, a public statement that the NSFC would be in-charge of such a capability is an open admission of sorts that Pakistan is in the process of developing a naval variant of a strategic nuclear missile.

For long, the Pakistan Navy has viewed the Indian Navy (IN) with suspicion. The IN’s sustained growth over the past few years has, in fact, become an excuse for the PN to push for its own development and expansion of assets. In an article written for a Pakistan daily in May 2012, Tauqir Naqvi, a retired Vice Admiral of the PN, suggested that the ‘hegemonic’ elements of the Indian Navy’s maritime strategy have been the main drivers of the resurgence of the Pakistan Navy. The article, when read closely, is a dead give-away of Pakistan’s real ambitions with regard to nuclear weapons and nuclear submarines.

Naqvi writes extensively about India’s strategic vision, characterising it as a “hegemonic” impulse that has led the IN to aim for control of the seas over an area extending from the Red Sea in the West to Fiji in the Pacific Ocean. While Pakistan, he contends, is a “peace-loving” nation, India has never been serious about developing friendly relations, fixated as it has been with the “idea of projecting power”. Surprisingly, he showers Indian scientists and the IN with some unexpected, even if ‘motivated’ praise, by mentioning the sterling efforts of the Indian scientific community and shipyard workers in operationalising a strategic maritime capability. The complimentary references are, in effect, a none-too-disguised message to Pakistan's political leadership and mandarins in the defence ministry about the ineluctable need for Pakistan to buttress its own strategic arsenal with naval nuclear missiles and a nuclear submarine, without which, the PN can forget about countering the “evil designs” of the Indian Navy.

It is, however, Naqvi’s references to India’s two nuclear submarines—INS Chakra (SSN) and INS Arihant (SSBN)—that dispel all doubts about the real intentions behind the avidly rendered piece. Naqvi opines that the threat that the two nuclear platforms collectively pose to the security of Pakistan, is near-existential. It is the completion of the Triad (land, air and sea based nuclear weapons), he observes, that gives India the confidence to respond with nuclear weapons, even if it is made to absorb a first nuclear strike. INS Arihant is that crucial second strike capability which could give India the vital edge during a conflict. The SSBN, he concludes, is an essential component of a nuclear arsenal, one that Pakistan must singularly pursue.

However, in his enthusiasm to convince Pakistan’s defence establishment about the need for a SSBN, Naqvi overstates his case when he mentions the “diplomatic advantage” that may accrue to India on account of its nuclear submarine. There is hardly any modern precedent of a nuclear submarine (by itself) being an effective instrument of ‘diplomatic persuasion’, as he suggests. Nor does it really help in negotiating with other states possessing similar capability, as cooperation and negotiation in the strategic realm has to do with ‘bottom-line’ naval capacities in securing maritime interests and an overlap in strategic interests. While maritime cooperation does lead to economic benefits, it is not on account of possessing a ballistic nuclear weapon submarine capability, which is purely for the purposes of strategic deterrence.

The Arihant is a significant addition to the Indian Navy’s arsenal but it does not introduce a strategic imbalance in the India-Pakistan context, as India, by embracing a ‘No First Use’ doctrine, has already renounced the strategic advantage. The Arihant’s introduction does not alter this basic reality and is unlikely to tilt the strategic balance drastically. If anything, its gives India a measure of greater confidence in securing its own maritime interests, which does not necessarily translate into overwhelming dominance of the Indian Ocean or greater vulnerability of Pakistan to India’s strategic weapons.

Given India’s territorial expanse and the spread of its nuclear weapon sites, even if Pakistan did get a nuclear missile capable submarine, it would not be able to neutralise India’s broader nuclear weapon capability, with or without the Arihant. As regards the comparison of combat capabilities of conventional submarines and SSNs/SSBNs, it is well established that the former are not ‘inferior’ operational combat platforms merely on account of the absence of nuclear propulsion or nuclear weapons. Both these capabilities (though vital strategically) rarely come in handy in a tactical scenario. Admiral Naqvi again exaggerates his case by suggesting that the Pakistan Navy’s conventional submarines would not be able to stand up to India’s SSBN.

Interestingly, signs that the PN has been thinking seriously about nuclear submarines have been around for some time now. As early as in 2008, in an interview to a Pakistan daily, the then PN Chief, Admiral Noman Bashir, had said that Pakistan was quite capable of building a nuclear submarine and would do so “if required”. Pakistan, he said, is a recognized nuclear power and if the government made a decision, the nation would develop a nuclear weapon. In February 2012, Admiral Asif Sandhila, the present Chief of the PN, stated to the Pakistani media that the PN was mindful of India’s plans to complete the sea-based arm of its nuclear triad, and was “taking necessary measures to restore the strategic balance” in the Indian Ocean region.

Questions, however, remain on Pakistan’s capability to design and develop a sea-based nuclear missile. Even China, which is known to be helping Pakistan in its nuclear capabilities, does not possess a credible submarine-launched missile. The odds that Pakistan will succeed in developing its undersea nuclear ballistic missile without assistance from China are highly unfavourable. Even if it did manage to get an SSBN, it is not certain whether the Pakistan Navy will be in a position to undertake the responsibility of the nation’s second-strike capability.

Therefore, the recent drive by PN’s senior serving and retired naval officers to persuade the security establishment as well as the man on the street of the necessity of a nuclear submarine capability appears ill-founded, if not disingenuous. Outwardly, it may serve to create a sense of insecurity—vital in persuading politicians about the need for a new capability—but the manifest lack of strategic logic will eventually convince few.

Pakistan’s naval leadership will also be aware of the risks and financial costs of developing and operating a nuclear submarine—the need to constantly refine equipment and train personnel; of razor-sharp communications and command and control systems; and the requirement of mastering safety procedures. In the final analysis the SSBN is not an asset if it is not mastered well and operated optimally. Merely possessing one offers no strategic advantages.


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Chinese Qing-class SSK​

Pakistani defence forces , specially Pakistani Navy has been quite vocal of arrival of Russian Nuclear powered submarine to Indian shore mid of this month . Pakistan Navy chief has already told US Defence Magazine that arrival of Russian Nuclear powered submarine and India’s own Indigenous development ,will have adverse effect on its operational capability in Indian ocean . and also mentioned that Pakistani navy is already working on plans to counter this latest threat put forward by Indian Navy .

Indian Defence Experts believe that Pakistan is already working on a counter plans and might just surprise Indian pretty soon in future by producing or acquiring a Nuclear powered submarine . Pakistan always has a quieter way of weapons acquisition and even managed to keep many defence project low key affair .

Rakesh Sharma Indian Defence Expert told idrw.org that “General Musharraf way back in 2006 had mentioned to a Pak daily that technology for development of a Nuclear Submarine existed in Pakistan”, but its seems help will come from its tried and tested friend china .

China has per media will be supplying 6 conventional attack submarine of Qing class , which will be equipped with a Stirling-cycle AIP system and will be able to carry up to three nuclear warhead-carrying CJ-10K LACMs each. The double-hulled Qing-class SSK, with a submerged displacement close to 3,600 tonnes, bears a close resemblance to the Russian Type 636M SSK, and features hull-retractable foreplanes and hydrodynamically streamlined sail.

Experts suggests that Pakistan’s nuclear submarine is likely to be based on the Qing Class Chinese SSK. highly advanced electric propulsion system of Qing Class Chinese SSK will able Pakistan to replace diesel engine power generation with a nuclear power plant.

Pakistan also has the expertise of submarine construction , with potential help may have been the transfer of technology from France with the Agosta 90B submarine purchase. A number of key technologies were transferred including design and development skills and tools. Building of hulls and experience with Western subsystems, many of which are used in the French nuclear submarines would help the Pakistani SSN / SSBN.

Pakistan with expertise and transfers of technology from China , will be able to field their first nuclear submarine in next 5 to 8 years and brand it “Indigenous “. But experts have difference of opinion on usage of this submarine in both forces , While Nuclear Submarine in Indian navy will complete Nuclear 2nd strike option for India , but Pakistani nuclear submarine might be built to attack prized Indian Aircraft carriers in case of conflict . India who will have 3 or more fleet of aircraft carriers in near future will always be Pakistani navies prime target , even in 1971 Indo-Pak war , Indian aircraft carrier was always a prize target for them .

http://idrw.org/?p=8896

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I think you guy's can get this in next couple of years.

:sniper:


Pakistan Navy
 
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Okay! Lets See whats gonna happens in reality.Its clearly starting a Nuclear arms race in Naval tech.....:smokin:

there is no race. pakistan cant design a single navy ship on its own to be honest. this is stealthy 17 a frigate designed by indian engineers. nuclear sub is much more complex than this simple boat. if pakistan cant design a simple boat boomer is out of question. dont start a race u cant even play alone in. india today has some of the biggest shipyards in asia and is currently building tons of new shipyards dedicated for ship building. the new l&t shipyard will be asia's biggest and will be used to build navy ships. sorry but no race with pakistan.
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Well lets see the future 'restoration ' of strategic balance...As far as i am concerned, a country that can design & build nuclear reactors on its own, can oly design a nuclear reactor so small enough to be fit in a sub !!
I doubt they can build it on their own cos, pakistan have never designed any normal nuke reactors, and its very tough to construct one without chinese help..
but as always US CIA will recognise it, and they would be slapped with sanctions, even before they even start..
To be honest, pakistan, have many potential challenges to be overcome to build one... It may not be impossible, but definitely its tough........
 
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