Pakistan's new strategy to avoid ABM

[ares]

Do we have Swordfish and Greenpine ?

Swordfish is modified Green Pine radar, developed with the Israel, it is much more powerful than basic Green pine.
Off Course Israel is now moving on to Super Green pine Radar for their arrow 3 BMD.

 

[Mrc]

Lets get into history of indian missile defence...project started with israelis selling them swordfish radar...
original plan was for israel to sell arrow 2 missile..but that sale was blocked by US as it violates international laws; fearing that such a sale will provide both pakistan and china a chance to have a ball on expense of these treaties..
So india was forced to develope their own interceptor...
Now here the fun starts...

Any how terminal defence is only effective against liquid fuelled non sparating missiles like scud...even for that their efficacy has a huge question mark...

As for as low flying sunsonic cruise missiles are concerned ... you have to see them to intercept them... flying at tree top level you probably wobt see them ... definitely wont ge able to track them

Most indian riding a wave of nationalism

 

[ares]

Target you are aquiring is flying at mac 20... most likely manouverable.. its 4 5 times faster than a bullet fired from a gun ... your interceptor at mac 3 -5 can only meet it head on ...do the maths your self...

No it is not,

You are not firing a ICBM, You are firing a SRBM.

It is only minutely maneuverable, because it ballistic missile, it follows parabolic trajectory, and after the boost phase is complete, the engine cuts out.

It exits the atmosphere, the wings are useless as it there is no air there.

It is general understanding, there is 5 minutes window for any ballistic missile fired by Pakistan to reach the Capital.

Lets get into history of indian missile defence...project started with israelis selling them swordfish radar...
original plan was for israel to sell arrow 2 missile..but that sale was blocked by US as it violates international laws; fearing that such a sale will provide both pakistan and china a chance to have a ball on expense of these treaties..
So india was forced to develope their own interceptor...
Now here the fun starts...

Any how terminal defence is only effective against liquid fuelled non sparating missiles like scud...even for that their efficacy has a huge question mark...

As for as low flying sunsonic cruise missiles are concerned ... you have to see them to intercept them... flying at tree top level you probably wobt see them ... definitely wont ge able to track them

Most indian riding a wave of nationalism

1. LOL ..where did you get that from??

2. Low flying subsonic missile can even be intercepted by fighters, or even normals SAMs. only problem is tracking them..as they fly below the radar horizon, they are difficult to track by land based radars.

That is why India purchased Aerostat radars from israel and is in the process of purchasing 6 more..each with more 600 Km range.

 

[Mrc]

No it is not,

You are not firing a ICBM, You are firing a SRBM.

It is only minutely maneuverable, because it ballistic missile, it follows parabolic trajectory, and after the boost phase is complete, the engine cuts out.

It exits the atmosphere, the wings are useless as it there is no air there.

It is general understanding, there is 5 minutes window for any ballistic missile fired by Pakistan to reach the Capital.

I invite you to update your self on shaheen 1 2 and 3...speeds of there RVs and mechanisms they use to manuver....and than re join the dabate at a later date...

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Educated yourself first. Our BMD (Current capability under testing and tested 6 time successfully out of seven times) is for 2000 KM range ballistic missile We have other system like akash to take care of Babur like missile and it is meted with Aerostar like system. Our BMD when deployed shall be more than capable of taking care of your missiles.

Hi by the time you "actually" induct it to protect a few cities (you can't protect the hole india)..

Who knows what you might face ... Unlike you .. We don't boast of things before we actually test or induct them ...

I.E: we have been hearing about a naval version (sub launched) of Babur CM .. No official statement till now . Apart from mostly western sources (a small but significant tid bid from DESPO - govt site)... But suddenly a Naval Strategic Command was established .. Sole aim - 2nd strike capability.


As for our "useless" low tech missiles..

Here is a video of RAAD ALCM... Describes as a terrain hugging,pin point accurate ALCM ...(which you guys have been bad mouthing)..

Notice how low it flies from the ground (you could literally see its shadow on the ground below)

 

[ares]

I invite you to update your self on shaheen 1 2 and 3...speeds of there RVs and mechanisms they use to manuver....and than re join the dabate at a later date...

And I would deplore to go back to high school, learn a bit of high school mathematics, specially parabola...and join us in a few years.


You can not fire a 3000 Km missile at a target 300 Kms away and hope it will reach its maximum speed at a minimum altitude.

A projectile, which accelerated to Mach 20 will cover the same amount distance , either vertically or horizontally.

A 300 km range missile will take the same amount of time to reach its target 300 Km away as 3000 Km range missile will take to reach a target 300 kms away) ..regardless of the difference in their speeds.

The difference is 3000 Km missile has to follow a lofted trajectory to cover 300Km horizontal distance, whereas 300 Km can follow a it optimum trajectory.


Those minute altitude correction nozzles on Shaheen 1A, 2 and 3 are for improving the CEP of the missile, they do not offer significant maneuverability to the RV to avoid interceptor missiles.

Plus the interceptor is getting real time updates from the Radar and has active radar homing , as to movement of the missile..and a proximity fuse to go off in the vicinity of the missile.

 

[Mrc]

People who just want to spew patriotic fervour and (blind hatred and venom) without having any knowledge about what they are talking about....please do so on bharat rakshak..which is an ideal forum for such things...

on this forum we enjoy quality and knowledge...if you dont have them; please keep youe sci fi out of here

 

[Pak_Sher]

As of this moment Pakistan has nothing to worry about:

1. India's ABM project is not even deployed yet. It is expected to get deployed around 2017 with just 2 cities Delhi and Mumbai under its gambit.

2. Even if ABM is deployed, the ABM technology is still evolving. It is yet to be able counter massed volley's.
Pakistan can simply and easily/cheaply overload the system by firing a large number of BM's.


Either ways, the ABM is a non-issue for the coming decade at least.

So you are suggesting Pakistan keeps waiting until India has successfully deployed the ABM Systems? Why?

 

[Greaves]

how would you beat iron dome pakistan me ajtak koi kabutar paida nahi hua jo iron dome ko beat kare

for that role stealth pigeon would be used to bomb iron dome.

 

[MULUBJA]

Correction: couple of thousand years away... both in past vedic times and in future

Hummmmm!!!!!!!

Many people wished that. Now they have fallen in line. Britishers thought that India shall break, US forced russia to give cryogenic engine technology, They wished that we may not become missile power and imposed missile technology control regime.They tried to stop us from being nuclear power. When they could not successed, How a nation like Pakistan can? Your wishful thinking shall always remain your wishful thinking. our missile shielf shall be a reality soon.

 

[Mr.Nair]

yes but you are scared of centuries old techniques what if we apply new techniques buhahaha

You apply your new technique by the way what will happen, kashmir still part of india,india is progressing very fast and you failed to internationalize kashmir issue and no 3rd party want to involve in any dispute.

 

[Pomegranate]

You apply your new technique by the way what will happen, kashmir still part of india,india is progressing very fast and you failed to internationalize kashmir issue and no 3rd party want to involve in any dispute.

3rd party is China .. they do not give visa to kashmiris on indian passport , they removed kashmir from the map of india .... improve your knowledge ..... and zip it .

How much time do you think, it takes to fire a interceptor missile?
Swordfish LRTR(developed with Israel) has a range of 800Kms i.e even if placed 200km within Indian territory, It can monitor almost entire Pakistani airspace.

In Worst case scenario even if it takes one minute for the radar to acquire target resolution(typically a radar can start tracking a target with in few seconds of being plotted)

Interceptors still have 3-4 minutes to fire, before the missile reaches its target(New Delhi)
These are solid fueled interceptors, are always ready to fire on press of a button..All they need is a target resolution.

we wont fire a single missile ... it would be bombarment of missiles rememebr that and that too from short distance nothing works as i said before .

 

[kaonalpha]

You're nation's reliance on keppat brazel or Iron dome
Will be your own downfall. The system itself is in its preliminary stages and as shortcomings such as

According to Ronen Bergman, in 2012, duringOperation Pillar of Defense, Israel agreed to an early cease-fire, "for a reason that has remained a closely guarded secret: The Iron Dome anti-missile defense system... had run out of ammunition." Bergman says that as a result of the experience, Israel had tried to prepare larger stocks of interceptors for futures rounds of fighting.

And

An unpublished 2013 report by Theodore Postol, Mordechai Shefer and another colleague argued that the official effectiveness figures for Iron Dome during Operation Pillar of Defense were incorrect.Although Postol had earlier lauded Iron Dome's effectiveness, after studying YouTube videos of the warhead interceptions as well as police reports and other data, he argued that "Iron Dome’s intercept rate, defined as destruction of the rocket's warhead was relatively low, perhaps as low as 5%, but could well be lower." Postol reached this conclusion mainly from an analysis of non-official footage of interceptions taken by civilians and published on YouTube.

how would you beat iron dome pakistan me ajtak koi kabutar paida nahi hua jo iron dome ko beat kare

 

[Mrc]

And I would deplore to go back to high school, learn a bit of high school mathematics, specially parabola...and join us in a few years.


You can not fire a 3000 Km missile at a target 300 Kms away and hope it will reach its maximum speed at a minimum altitude.

A projectile, which accelerated to Mach 20 will cover the same amount distance , either vertically or horizontally.

A 300 km range missile will take the same amount of time to reach its target 300 Km away as 3000 Km range missile will take to reach a target 300 kms away) ..regardless of the difference in their speeds.

The difference is 3000 Km missile has to follow a lofted trajectory to cover 300Km horizontal distance, whereas 300 Km can follow a it optimum trajectory.


Those minute altitude correction nozzles on Shaheen 1A, 2 and 3 are for improving the CEP of the missile, they do not offer significant maneuverability to the RV to avoid interceptor missiles.

Plus the interceptor is getting real time updates from the Radar and has active radar homing , as to movement of the missile..and a proximity fuse to go off in the vicinity of the missile.

I dont know whether to laugh or cry..

So you have heard of a lofted trajectory??

Imagine a tone heavy RV descending from 800 km above vertically on to target...
Mach 20 means around 6-7 km/second...that is around 100 meters in a millisecond...that means if your calculations are off for a millisecond you miss the target as you cannot hope to chase it at this speed...to make sure you do miss it; those side firing motors can change attitude randomly.

Proximity fuse will not work as RV will pass right through the explosion.. a little damage to nuclear warhead is of no consequences as it ignites from inside not from out side...this is not a 10 dollar hamas rocket you are talking about
Only direct hit to kill can work...
thats why THAAD uses kinetic kill; but that has only been tested against non separating parabollic liquid fuelled missiles like some that iran or north korea may fire....far lower speeds ; perdictable attitude...

Staying on that note all the tests of indian BMD used prithvi missile as target ; which again is a liquid fuelled non separating missile...

It was claimed that BMD when functional ; will be at same level as american patriot pac3...and we all know how useless pac3 has been...

 

[Tipu7]

Words like yours mean nothing . Actions we see on almost daily basis by muslims mean everything. Actions are worth far more than words.

Don't butt in matters which u don't understand