Pakistan's NCO corps

[fatman17]

in the 70s and 80s PA officers were sent to Fort Benning, Fort Ord to attend courses as well as getting training as "DS" Drill Sergeants esp at Fort Ord, Monterrey California. Fort Benning is in Georgia (I think?).

Now-a-days the officers are reluctant to attend courses in the US (sanctions etc) and prefer courses in the UK, Germany or muslim countries like Turkey and Egypt. IMO they are missing some of the best training and education.

 

[blain2]

in the 70s and 80s PA officers were sent to Fort Benning, Fort Ord to attend courses as well as getting training as "DS" Drill Sergeants esp at Fort Ord, Monterrey California. Fort Benning is in Georgia (I think?).

Now-a-days the officers are reluctant to attend courses in the US (sanctions etc) and prefer courses in the UK, Germany or muslim countries like Turkey and Egypt. IMO they are missing some of the best training and education.

FM sir,

I think one of the issues is that compared to the 50s and 60s, the current openings are a fraction of what used to be offered in the US under the earlier forms of IMET. As an example in 04, IMET had allocated $1.25 million for Pakistan, this number went up to 7 million and we were able to squeeze 269 personnel on short and medium duration courses/seminars etc. So this is a very good thing. More of it should be done to build bridges.

Foreign courses are always welcomed and this goes all the more for those in the US. I have been tracking the numbers of officers going to the US for the past few years and it seems to be a fairly decent number but not close to what it was in the periods I mentioned earlier. But then even the given numbers are good. I hope they continue to increase.

The other thing is that while courses in other countries like UK, France, Germany, Turkey and other Muslim countries are always welcome, they are mostly staff courses for officers in mid-careers and the exchanges are back and forth. The training in the US helps our officers in courses pertaining to staff work as well as on specific technical equipment and specialization training. This is the key benefit of training in the US. The inclusion of new technology and training aides in the training syllabus makes it much more beneficial. We learn these and then bring them back and integrate it into our own schools.

 

[S-2]

I was a primary instructor at the Firing Battery Branch, Cannon Division, Weapons Dept., U.S. Army Field Artillery School, Ft. Sill in the early eighties. Groovy assignment that really positioned me to understand the fundamentals of my craft.

We taught new army, marine, and foreign officers. A LOT of Yemeni, Qatari, U.A.E., Kuwaiti, and a few Saudi officers, Lebanese, Malaysians, and Singaporeans. Gotta say, the guys from the gulf thoroughly sucked. They were completely dis-oriented by their western experience. BLEW most of their minds. Language skills really hindered their progress and fell behind their foreign peers quickly. Malaysians and Singaporeans were totally top-notch. Maybe cause they hate each other.

Our advance course had the interesting moment of two colonels from the Egyptian and Israeli armies. This was 1981 so the discussions were interesting, off-topic constantly, and occasionally lively. In my building alone, we had German, Australian, and Dutch liaison officers with others throughout the post-some serving as instructors. All professional artillerymen.

No Indians. No Pakistanis. Neither as students nor instructors. Like the Egyptian and Israeli colonels, there are environements that foster sub-national level meetings between professionals that promote greater understanding and contact.

Remains a goal of mine that there'd be a joint Indo-Pak Mountain Corps of two divisions serving in Afghanistan...under American command.

Always thought that might be fun joint training for everybody concerned. Can have the Americans, of course, because we're already there. Can't have one of the others, though, without both.

Only seems fair, right?

 

[S-2]

Remember that what this does is drive the leveling and commonality of technical and tactical doctrine. Our texts were carried to other nations as theirs were to ours. Our subject matter experts always reviewed the simple stuff on our differences, such as RECORD OF MISSIONS FIRED forms. Could they be standardized? Or phonetic alphabets and common map references-all matters that facilitate joint operations.

Simple stuff too, but unless thought of and addressed always slips through cracks. There is an amazing military academic community at work globally and, perversely, carries it's own diplomatic cachet by it's subliminal scholarly contacts right into the most mundane elements of, say, basic training schedules for new recruits.

New lieutenants are, IMHO, a waste to send abroad. Captains and majors are perfect levels to baseline from.

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

Remains a goal of mine that there'd be a joint Indo-Pak Mountain Corps of two divisions serving in Afghanistan...under American command.

So you do have a sense of humour


Perhaps Indo-Pak and Iranian Corps of three divs under the Chinese Command or Russian Command

 

[jamal18]

Or an american and british division under pakistani command...

 

[S-2]

Maybe just an Indian corps of three divisions. That be best, probably. The N.A. like them...

A lot.

Ah well, that would be, of course, up to the Afghanis.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Maybe just an Indian corps of three divisions. That be best, probably. The N.A. like them...

A lot.

Ah well, that would be, of course, up to the Afghanis.

I smell a massacre in the air then ......

The Indians may think otherwise, but without the US present they'll be taken apart piece by piece in Afghanistan, and unlike last time, we won't be expending the resources required to actually control the territory and run a government.

Bleed, bleed, bleed ....

 

[S-2]

"Bleed, bleed, bleed"

Yup, and that's why they wouldn't.

Their ROI is outstanding as things stand and there's no reason from their view to mess with a good thing. Their muslim populace would be completely opposed and, for various reasons, many hindu and most communists too.

I see one and the other. Definitely not one or the other.

Anticipate this, though-if Afghanistan is stabilized with anything other than a Pashtu-dominated gov't in power, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a mutual-defense treaty with India. Either India or the Russians.

Better get the pashtu to the polls.