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Pakistan's navy interested in Chinese submarines and advance naval ships

Bro, You know Turkish institue Havelsan will be the owner of U-214 Command-control and source-codes. When Turkey finished developing Torpedos and Anti-shipping missiles, We will integrate them in it as well and Almost %82 of Subsystems will be developed by Turkish institues including silent consol, Link 22, Torpedo shell sections by the help of Germany in Turkey and have rights to export them to 3th countries. As you mentioned above, Turkey and Pakistan can manage-modify those submarines however We want...

If you go against any agreement with the Germans on this, licence will be revoked plus you won't get licence production of other items in future. So don't underestimate the degree to which Turkey will have to considered German arms export policies in its own. If not formally then at least actually.
 
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Once we get these subs we will have 20 total unless we decide to retire some of our 209s.
 
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why we do not take U-214 with T.O.T ,
German's have also well reputed name in sub building.
 
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Bro, You know Turkish institue Havelsan will be the owner of U-214 Command-control and source-codes. When Turkey finished developing Torpedos and Anti-shipping missiles, We will integrate them in it as well and Almost %82 of Subsystems will be developed by Turkish institues including silent consol, Link 22, Torpedo shell sections by the help of Germany in Turkey and have rights to export them to 3th countries. As you mentioned above, Turkey and Pakistan can manage-modify those submarines however We want...

being optimistic, this may be one reason for current intrest in chines subs.
may be top brass feel that for time being they can do good with present Augusta 90B fleet accompanied byy some chines subs. later on when Turkey is done and going with there U214 may be Paksitan can join in and by that time they will have experience with various platform and can use Turkish experties to modify the ship as per requirment.
Chian may also join in that deal.
ideall speaking this will be great.
Turkish know the U214z,
China and Pakistan come up with there experiences with Chines subs abd augustas and all these nations join hand to creat sub as per requirment.

bro, this is only a comment, you may disagree withthis as i have no evidence to proof this...

regards!
 
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Once we get these subs we will have 20 total unless we decide to retire some of our 209s.

6 New CLASS (214 Type 1200):
On 2nd July 2009, a contract was signed by Howaldtswerke-Deutsche Werft GmbH (HDW), Kiel, a company of ThyssenKrupp Technologies, and MarineForce International LLP (MFI), London, for the delivery of six material packages for the construction of Class 214 submarines to Turkey. The signing of the contract was the end of a long series of bureaucratic procedures that started in 2006. The first of the submarines would be delivered in 2015.

In service today:
6x ATILAY CLASS (209 Type 1200), commissioned between 12 Mar 1976 and 29 July 1989.
4x PREVEZE CLASS (209 Type 1400), commissioned between 28 July 1994 and 22 July 1999.
4x GÜR CLASS (209 Type 1400 Mod), commissioned between 24 July 2003 and 22 July 2007.

The Atilay boats are between 21 and 34 years old today. By 2015, when the first U214 is expected to become available, they will be between by 26 and 39 years old 2015. That fact plus the number of 214s approved strongly suggests that the new boats will replace the oldest 209s rather than complement the current fleet and expand it.
 
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If you go against any agreement with the Germans on this, licence will be revoked plus you won't get licence production of other items in future. So don't underestimate the degree to which Turkey will have to considered German arms export policies in its own. If not formally then at least actually.


I am not talking about the Germany systems licence produced by Turkey to integrate on submarines. Anyhow, The engine and Fuel cells will be produced by Germany to transfer Turkey to integrate on U-214TN's. The many other systems Turkish industry will integrate on submarines will be pure Turkish and estimate rate of those systems on submarines will be around %82 so Any nation in World can not put their nose into those systems When We wanted to export them to other countries...



Anyhow, Turkish institues ( It must be an institue of Koc group) are working on fuel cells now a days..
 
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Here is the list Turkish industry will develop and integrate on U-214 TN's. Germany has nothing to say, when Turkey wanted to export those systems for other countries...


Aselsan

-The devices and electronical equipments
-Radars
-Radar electronic system group called Ares-2NS
-Submarine information delivery system will be developed by Aselsan
-X band satellites communication systems and all another communication units will be developed by Aselsan...

------------------------------------------------------------

Netas

-Warfare keying systems will be developed by Netas

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Havelsan

-Simulators, Educations, Tests, Assessments of performance, Management information of command-control systems of U-214TN's will belong to Havelsan until all active lifes of submarines...
-Land based test center-institue construction to test new variants of command-comtrol system to integrate future Turkish weapons will be applied by Havelsan
-Algoritma developments, threat banks and all another things about software are belong to Havelsan...
-New sensor-systems integration missions, underwater tactic simulator development will belong to Havelsan

------------------------------------------------------------
STM

-Design of U-214 TN
-Engineering and system integrations
-18000 different system integration
-Composite materials production
-Submarine blocks production
-Shipyard and battery institues and developments
-Logistic support

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Tubitak Mam

-Underwater telephones
-Battery watch systems and centeral air consantration watch systems

----------------------------------------------------------------

Ayesas and Atlas electronic

-Multi function consols design, development, electronic cards, cabinets, electromagnetic assembly, weapon consols, weapon control units development and tests...
-The silent consols for submarines...

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Milsoft

-6 item multi link system
-1 item multi link land based test institue-integration
-Link-11 and Link-22 data transportations


------------------------------------------------------------------

Koc Bilgi

-Indigenous diver detection system
-Torpedo jamming and defence systems
-Fat/Hat/Sat phases
-Indigenous detection, classification and Localisation systems
-Static and Movement effectors
 
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6 New CLASS (214 Type 1200):
On 2nd July 2009, a contract was signed by Howaldtswerke-Deutsche Werft GmbH (HDW), Kiel, a company of ThyssenKrupp Technologies, and MarineForce International LLP (MFI), London, for the delivery of six material packages for the construction of Class 214 submarines to Turkey. The signing of the contract was the end of a long series of bureaucratic procedures that started in 2006. The first of the submarines would be delivered in 2015.

In service today:
6x ATILAY CLASS (209 Type 1200), commissioned between 12 Mar 1976 and 29 July 1989.
4x PREVEZE CLASS (209 Type 1400), commissioned between 28 July 1994 and 22 July 1999.
4x GÜR CLASS (209 Type 1400 Mod), commissioned between 24 July 2003 and 22 July 2007.

The Atilay boats are between 21 and 34 years old today. By 2015, when the first U214 is expected to become available, they will be between by 26 and 39 years old 2015. That fact plus the number of 214s approved strongly suggests that the new boats will replace the oldest 209s rather than complement the current fleet and expand it.

You are probably correct the Atilay class subs are getting very old. Not that we would need 20 subs anyway once the U214s are in it would keep us ahead of all in the region. Since Greek's sub deal failed and Israel operates a small number of Dolphin class subs. Still it would have been nice to have such a large number :azn:
 
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I am not talking about the Germany systems licence produced by Turkey to integrate on submarines. Anyhow, The engine and Fuel cells will be produced by Germany to transfer Turkey to integrate on U-214TN's. The many other systems Turkish industry will integrate on submarines will be pure Turkish and estimate rate of those systems on submarines will be around %82 so Any nation in World can not put their nose into those systems When We wanted to export them to other countries...

Anyhow, Turkish institues ( It must be an institue of Koc group) are working on fuel cells now a days..

Sure other nations can, if only due to the international treaties to which Turkey also is - or would like to become - a partner. Besides, increasingly, the defence industry is dominated by conglomerates and the chances of foreign components being used even in fully domestic systems is quite high. Export controls focus on techologies rather than systems these days.
 
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Sure other nations can, if only due to the international treaties to which Turkey also is - or would like to become - a partner. Besides, increasingly, the defence industry is dominated by conglomerates and the chances of foreign components being used even in fully domestic systems is quite high. Export controls focus on techologies rather than systems these days.

:)

Sure other nations can not !!! Which International treaty hold Turkey to export one of those systems I have typed above, to Pakistan, When Turkey agreed on selling some of them ? Many of those systems have already been developed and Now, They will be modified in accordance with underwater missions to integrate on U-214's.

I am not talking about transfering U-214 design and structure or some strategic components developed by Germany, to other countries. Those are Turkish systems and Neither Germany nor others have nothing to say about the systems developed by Turkish engineers.

If you had said that Turkey can not export some strategic systems to other countries politically, You may have sure but It has nothing to do with international treaty. Those are not the systems prohibited exporting others under the name of MTCR...
 
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and About quantity of foreign systems in Turkish programs,

If Fsybility reports dictate some technological defficiencies (If it is a key strategic technology to start a program, SSM cancel program and never start it under the name of domestic development project model) to start a program, SSM (Undersecretariat of defence industry) charge main-contactor Turkish institue to find a technological assistance foreign institue to benefit its technological abilities to develop our own and you should know that If foreign institue issue some restrictions to use own technology for Turkish programs, Making an agreement with it is prohibited by SSM because Just as Turkish defence industry is improving skills to meet the requirements of Turkish Armed forces, The exporting those systems for ally countries are also one of main purpose of SSM...
 
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why we do not take U-214 with T.O.T ,
German's have also well reputed name in sub building.
Why dont you write a cheque to German athorties as GOP is little low on bank balance......

PRICE is a big factor for us as we are terribly war struck country.
 
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The Type 039 (NATO reporting name: Song class) is the diesel-electric submarine designed by Wuhan Ship Development and Design Institute (701 Institute) for the PLA Navy (PLAN). Construction of the submarine was carried out by Wuhan Shipbuilding Industry Company (also known as Wuchang Shipyard or 438 Factory) in Wuhan, Hubei Province and Jiangnan Shipyard Group Corporation in Shanghai. At least 16 hulls have been delivered to the PLA Navy since 1994.

The first-of-class of the Type 039 submarine No.320 was launched on 25 May 1994 at Wuchang Shipyard, and started sea trials in August 1995. However, the submarine was not fully operational until 1999 due to serious design flaws, including unsatisfactory underwater performance and noise level. After some major redesign work, a modified Type 039G variant (No.321) entered the service in April 2001, followed by the second (No.322) in December 2001 and the third (No.323) in November 2003.

In 2004, Wuchang Shipyard began to construct a further improved variant known as Type 039G1. At the same time, Shanghai-based Jiangnan Shipyard also began to built the Type 039G1 submarine, indicating that the submarine design has been finalised and serial production begun. Since then, a total of 12 boats (No.324~No.326, No.313~No.318, No.327~No.329) have been built.

Design


Type 039G1 (Chinese Internet)


The Type 039 was designed for anti-submarine warfare (ASW) and anti-surface warfare (ASuW) using torpedoes and submarine-launched anti-ship missiles. The submarine is also capable of reconnaissance, water mine laying and patrol roles. The submarine itself is a blend of Chinese and Western technologies, and represents a major step forward in China’s conventional submarine design.

Compared with the previous Chinese-built submarines, the Type 039 has a more hydro-dynamically sleek profile. To reduce the submarine’s acoustic signature, the main engine is fitted with a shock absorbance, and the hull is covered by rubber anti-sonar protection tiles similar to those used on the Russian Kilo class. The submarine has a pair of fin-mounted hydroplanes, four rudders, and a single large skewed propeller.

The first and only basic variant Type 039 submarine has a stepped conning fin, with the bridge a step lower than the part of the fin that contains masts. This design was reported to have affected the submarine’s underwater performance and noise level, and was replaced by a different shape with no cutaway on the subsequent Type 039s.

Armaments


Type 039G (Chinese Internet)


The Type 039 is equipped with six bow 533mm torpedo tubes, which can be used to fire torpedoes and submarine-launched anti-ship missile (AShM). The Type 039 is equipped with the Yu-3 electric-propelled, acoustic-homing anti-submarine torpedo and Yu-4 (Russian SAET-50/60 copy) electric-propelled, passive acoustic-homing anti-ship torpedo (speed: 30kt; range 6km). The new-generation Yu-6 wire-homing anti-submarine torpedo and an unknown model of wake-homing anti-ship torpedo may have also been equipped by the Type 039.

The submarine can also carry 4~6 YJ-82 AShM, which are carried inside cylinder-shape containers and launched from the torpedo tubes. The missile approaches the target area in sea-skimming mode using inertial navigation and then active radar homing. The missile travels at speeds over Mach 0.9, and has a range of 40~80km. The YJ-82 has a 165kg HE shaped-charge warhead with time delayed impact proximity fuses.

The submarine carries 18 torpedoes/AShM containers, with 6 in the launch tubes and 12 on the weapon racks. Alternatively the submarine can carry 24~36 sea mines.

Sensor Suite


The inside view of the Type 039G1's combat information centre (Chinese Internet)


The Type 039 deploys an indigenously developed underwater sensor suite consisting an active/passive bow-mounted array, an H/SQG-04 passive interception and ranging array, and two passive flank arrays.

The new digital bow-mounted, medium-frequency sonar designed for passive and active search and attack was said to be based on a French Thomson-CSF design, and capable of tracking 4~12 targets simultaneously. Additional functions of the sonar array include underwater communication and torpedo approach warning.

The flank-mounted low-frequency passive array was believed to be also based on French Thomson-CSF technology. It can track up to 4 targets simultaneously to a maximum range of 30km.

There is an I-band radar for surface search purpose. The SRW209 electronic warfare suite consists of electronic support measures (ESM), radar warning receiver and radio direction-finder.

In addition, the submarine is fitted with an indigenous combat data system capable of multiple targets tracking, threat evaluation, surveillance, and navigation.

Propulsions

The Type 039 is powered by three German MTU 16V396SE84 diesels. The large asymmetrical seven-blade skewed propeller of the submarine helps to further reduce the noise level.

---------- Post added at 02:55 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:55 AM ----------

The Type 039 (NATO reporting name: Song class) is the diesel-electric submarine designed by Wuhan Ship Development and Design Institute (701 Institute) for the PLA Navy (PLAN). Construction of the submarine was carried out by Wuhan Shipbuilding Industry Company (also known as Wuchang Shipyard or 438 Factory) in Wuhan, Hubei Province and Jiangnan Shipyard Group Corporation in Shanghai. At least 16 hulls have been delivered to the PLA Navy since 1994.

The first-of-class of the Type 039 submarine No.320 was launched on 25 May 1994 at Wuchang Shipyard, and started sea trials in August 1995. However, the submarine was not fully operational until 1999 due to serious design flaws, including unsatisfactory underwater performance and noise level. After some major redesign work, a modified Type 039G variant (No.321) entered the service in April 2001, followed by the second (No.322) in December 2001 and the third (No.323) in November 2003.

In 2004, Wuchang Shipyard began to construct a further improved variant known as Type 039G1. At the same time, Shanghai-based Jiangnan Shipyard also began to built the Type 039G1 submarine, indicating that the submarine design has been finalised and serial production begun. Since then, a total of 12 boats (No.324~No.326, No.313~No.318, No.327~No.329) have been built.

Design


Type 039G1 (Chinese Internet)


The Type 039 was designed for anti-submarine warfare (ASW) and anti-surface warfare (ASuW) using torpedoes and submarine-launched anti-ship missiles. The submarine is also capable of reconnaissance, water mine laying and patrol roles. The submarine itself is a blend of Chinese and Western technologies, and represents a major step forward in China’s conventional submarine design.

Compared with the previous Chinese-built submarines, the Type 039 has a more hydro-dynamically sleek profile. To reduce the submarine’s acoustic signature, the main engine is fitted with a shock absorbance, and the hull is covered by rubber anti-sonar protection tiles similar to those used on the Russian Kilo class. The submarine has a pair of fin-mounted hydroplanes, four rudders, and a single large skewed propeller.

The first and only basic variant Type 039 submarine has a stepped conning fin, with the bridge a step lower than the part of the fin that contains masts. This design was reported to have affected the submarine’s underwater performance and noise level, and was replaced by a different shape with no cutaway on the subsequent Type 039s.

Armaments


Type 039G (Chinese Internet)


The Type 039 is equipped with six bow 533mm torpedo tubes, which can be used to fire torpedoes and submarine-launched anti-ship missile (AShM). The Type 039 is equipped with the Yu-3 electric-propelled, acoustic-homing anti-submarine torpedo and Yu-4 (Russian SAET-50/60 copy) electric-propelled, passive acoustic-homing anti-ship torpedo (speed: 30kt; range 6km). The new-generation Yu-6 wire-homing anti-submarine torpedo and an unknown model of wake-homing anti-ship torpedo may have also been equipped by the Type 039.

The submarine can also carry 4~6 YJ-82 AShM, which are carried inside cylinder-shape containers and launched from the torpedo tubes. The missile approaches the target area in sea-skimming mode using inertial navigation and then active radar homing. The missile travels at speeds over Mach 0.9, and has a range of 40~80km. The YJ-82 has a 165kg HE shaped-charge warhead with time delayed impact proximity fuses.

The submarine carries 18 torpedoes/AShM containers, with 6 in the launch tubes and 12 on the weapon racks. Alternatively the submarine can carry 24~36 sea mines.

Sensor Suite


The inside view of the Type 039G1's combat information centre (Chinese Internet)


The Type 039 deploys an indigenously developed underwater sensor suite consisting an active/passive bow-mounted array, an H/SQG-04 passive interception and ranging array, and two passive flank arrays.

The new digital bow-mounted, medium-frequency sonar designed for passive and active search and attack was said to be based on a French Thomson-CSF design, and capable of tracking 4~12 targets simultaneously. Additional functions of the sonar array include underwater communication and torpedo approach warning.

The flank-mounted low-frequency passive array was believed to be also based on French Thomson-CSF technology. It can track up to 4 targets simultaneously to a maximum range of 30km.

There is an I-band radar for surface search purpose. The SRW209 electronic warfare suite consists of electronic support measures (ESM), radar warning receiver and radio direction-finder.

In addition, the submarine is fitted with an indigenous combat data system capable of multiple targets tracking, threat evaluation, surveillance, and navigation.

Propulsions

The Type 039 is powered by three German MTU 16V396SE84 diesels. The large asymmetrical seven-blade skewed propeller of the submarine helps to further reduce the noise level.
 
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The Type 039A/B, codenamed Yuan Class by the NATO, is a new type of non-nuclear submarine introduced by the PLA Navy in 2004. The submarine was built by Wuchang Shipyard in the inland Hubei Province. The Type 039A is reportedly China’s first submarine to be incorporated with an advanced air-independent propulsion (AIP) system, which enhances the submarine’s underwater performance and reduce its vulnerability to detention.

The Yuan Class appears to be a mixture of Chinese indigenous designs and Russian influence, with four diving planes and a single large shaft. The teardrop shaped hull and large sail suggest heavy Kilo influence. A pair of foreplanes are positioned in the middle of the sail. The hull of the submarine is covered with rubber anti-sonar protection tiles to reduce the risk of detection.

It was reported that the Yuan Class was equipped with an indigenously-developed AIP system, which allows the submarine to remain submerged on battery at slow speed for days or even weeks without having to surface to recharge batteries. The tactical flexibility, small size, and inherent stealth of such a system offers conventional diesel-electric submarines a remarkable increase in capability, making them dangerous threat to conventional and even nuclear submarines. It is believed that the AIP system used by the Type 039A may be a 100 kilowatt Stirling-cycle heat engines with external combustion design, developed by the 717 Institute of the China Shipbuilding Industry Corporation (CSIC).

The submarine has six 533mm bow torpedo tubes (2 above, 4 below), which can launch a range of Chinese indigenous or Russian wire-/acoustic-/wake-homing torpedoes, as well as the 80km-range YJ-82 submarine-launched anti-ship missile. For mine warfare missions, the submarine can carry 18~24 mines in its torpedo tubes.

The first-of-class hull No. 330 was launched on 31 May 2004, but its commission may have been delayed due to technical difficulties. Construction of the second hull began in 2006 and the submarine was launched in 2007. The two boats differ in the sail design and water holes arrangement.
 
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Why dont you write a cheque to German athorties as GOP is little low on bank balance......

PRICE is a big factor for us as we are terribly war struck country.

This is :blah::blah:
Why dont you write a cheque to German athorties as GOP is little low on bank balance......
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Right and to the point answer could be this,
PRICE is a big factor for us as we are terribly war struck country.
 
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