Pakistan's missed opportunity

[naveen mishra]

lol....................

 

[Pakistanisage]

Great information, thank you.

I have edited my OP to take out the "possibly" bit.



American influence is extremely poisonous and powerful, look at the Raymond Davis affair.

I am sure the Pakistani public would make the right choice, but the decisions are up to the Pakistani politicians who are possibly the worst people to represent Pakistan. In my opinion of course.

If the Chinese government were to bypass the Pakistani government and try to talk directly to the people, the Pakistani government would almost certainly assume we were trying to go over their head or even replace them.

You can't go by Raymond Davis affair. In that case the Americans took advantage of our laws to get Raymond Davis out. Pakistani law allows the Family of murdered person to forgive the perpetrator in return for financial payoffs. The US Govt. made millions of Dollars Payoff to the family of the deceased individuals as per our law and therefore Mr. Davis was released.

Instead, if you look at the Salala case you will know why Pakistani Govt. was helpless against the Public pressure and did not open the route for Nato supplies till te US Govt. officially apologized. The apology was made officially by Hilary Clinton on behalf of the US Govt after 6 months and then the supply line was restored.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

You can't go by Raymond Davis affair. In that case the Americans took advantage of our laws to get Raymond Davis out.
Pakistani law llows the Family of murdered person to forgivethe perpetrator in return for financial payoffs. TheUS mde millions o Dollars Payoff to the family of to deceased individuals as per our lw and therefore Mr. Davis was released.

Instead, if you look at the Salala case you will know why pakistani Govt. was helpless against the Public pressure and did not open the route for Nato supplies till te US Govt. officially apologized. The apology was made officially by Hilary Clinton on behalf of the US Govt after 6 months and then the supply line was restored.

But the Pakistani public are almost entirely against America and drones.

So how have the Pakistani politicians given America the right to use drones on Pakistani sovereign territory?

Politicians are crooked and cunning, especially in developing countries like ours. There is little we can do about it.

It was only by sheer luck that China landed such a good leader like Deng Xiaoping.

 

[godofwar]

But Ayub Khan preferred to side with India, for reasons unknown. He had already offered a joint-defence pact to India three years earlier in 1959 during the Sino-Indian border clashes that year:

Simple rule, the interests of your country should be above ALL else in the realm of politics. Anyone who puts the interests of America or India above the interests of Pakistan should be sent to a firing squad.

LOL
What about China?
I think the the reason Ayub Khan wanted joint defense with India was because Pakistan had some semblance of self respect back in those days and they didn't want to loose part of J & K to China.Remember alot of Kashmir that China controls today was under Pakistan in '59.
After '71 Pakistan ceded big parts of J & K to China which they claim as their core interest.Which self respecting country will cede part of territory they claim to be of core interest to another ?
So yeah that was probly the reason.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

So this is your reaction to your spat with Developereo on the other thread

As he said, you surely are a drama queen.

No, though I do personally consider Developereo to be a "modern day" Ayub Khan.

With his ridiculous assertion that "China will ditch Pakistan and choose India instead", in a thread that he started.

I am unsure of his reasons, but I guess it must be some sort of cultural affinity with his homeland.

 

[Pakistanisage]

But the Pakistani public are almost entirely against America and drones.

So how have the Pakistani politicians given America the right to use drones on Pakistani sovereign territory?

Politicians are crooked and cunning, especially in developing countries like ours. There is little we can do about it.

It was only by sheer luck that China landed such a good leader like Deng Xiaoping.

The Drones are mixed bag. Pakistanis are actually happy when the drones kill TTP terrorist like Baitullah Mehsud and Hakimullah Mehsud who had blood of Pakistanis on their hands.

 

[Donatello]

It is true Pakistan might have benefited in some way, but in 1962 Pakistan wasn't against India as only the Kashmir war was the only war Pakistan had fought with India.

Ayub, was more like a American-Western puppet, At that time Pakistan was too west oriented. If there is one thing Bhutto did right was to extend hand of friendship to the Communist states like China and Russia.

What is lost is lost, lets keep our current relationship with China alive.

Great information, thank you.

I have edited my OP to take out the "possibly" bit.



American influence is extremely poisonous and powerful, look at the Raymond Davis affair.

I am sure the Pakistani public would make the right choice, but the decisions are up to the Pakistani politicians who are possibly the worst people to represent Pakistan. In my opinion of course.

If the Chinese government were to bypass the Pakistani government and try to talk directly to the people, the Pakistani government would almost certainly assume we were trying to go over their head or even replace them.

American influence is slowly losing it's grip in Pakistan. Pakistan has realized that Americans are not what they seem. 21st century is different to 1960s

 

[godofwar]

It is true Pakistan might have benefited in some way, but in 1962 Pakistan wasn't against India as only the Kashmir war was the only war Pakistan had fought with India.


What is lost is lost, lets keep our current relationship with China alive.

If only you show the same insight when dealing with India, Kashmir issue will be solved.

With his ridiculous assertion that "China will ditch Pakistan and choose India instead", in a thread that he started.

Then I am in agreement with him.Though I believe China's, or for that matter any country's relations with India and Pak are largely independent of each other.

 

[Jade]

No, though I do personally consider Developereo to be a "modern day" Ayub Khan.

With his ridiculous assertion that "China will ditch Pakistan and choose India instead", in a thread that he started.

I am unsure of his reasons, but I guess it must be some sort of cultural affinity with his homeland.

For all you say about him, he is patriotic. By saying "China will ditch Pakistan and choose India instead", he is saying money speaks, there are no permanent enemies or friends, and all that matters is your selfinterest.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

For all you say about him, he is patriotic. By saying "China will ditch Pakistan and choose India instead", he is saying money speaks, there are no permanent enemies or friends, and all that matters is yourself interest.

Developereo said that "China will ditch Pakistan and choose India instead".

Does that sound like he has Pakistan's own interests at heart?

It is quite telling that Indians are siding with Developereo's argument above, since of course it benefits India, and hurts Pakistan.

 

[Jade]

Developereo said that "China will ditch Pakistan and choose India instead".

Does that sound like he has Pakistan's own interests at heart?

I will say that too if push comes to shove: China will ditch Pakistan and choose India. Security interests have become subservient to economic interests.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

I will say that to if push comes to shove: China will ditch Pakistan and choose India. Security interests have become subservient to economic interests.

Of course you would say that, you're an Indian.

Of course you would want China to ditch Pakistan and choose India instead.

Because it serves India's interests, and hurts Pakistan's interests.

Developereo agrees with you.

 

[Guynextdoor2]

In 1962... we asked Pakistan to join us in the attack against India.

But Ayub Khan preferred to side with India, for his own reasons. He had already offered a joint-defence pact to India three years earlier in 1959 during the Sino-Indian border clashes that year:

Bhutto`s foreign policy legacy - DAWN.COM



I would argue that if Pakistan had joined us in 1962, all of Kashmir would currently be in Pakistan's possession.

And we would probably have had a mutual defence pact, similar to the one between China and North Korea that saw massive Chinese military intervention during the Korean War, leading to America's longest ever retreat in history.

Such a mutual defence pact could have also prevented the loss of East Pakistan.

As it stands today, there is no mutual defence pact between China and Pakistan. I would argue that Ayub Khan's decision to side with India instead of China was a massive lost opportunity for Pakistan, and that should this opportunity arise again in the future, the other path would have been a better choice.

Lolllzzzzzzzzzz!!!!!!!! CD. Not only in 1962, but even in 2014 neither will CHina support Pak in real terms, nor will it be vice versa. As far as 1971 is concerned, India really is a non-issue. PA's beautiful kartoot resulted in their loss. India was just some sort of midwife. You just pulled this out of nowhere man

In long list of blunders of our leaders this surely was big one, reason of this was that he was sitting in Amereeka's lap not cultural ties or whatsoever.

Kuch to Sharam karo- amreeka gave you so much over the years!

 

[Jade]

Of course you would say that, you're an Indian.

Of course you would want China to ditch Pakistan and choose India instead.

Developereo agrees with you.

Think logically. Will China jeopardize $75 billion annual trade figure to a security pact with Pakistan.

When your new government came, you PM made his first visit to India. It shows how serious Chinese take India.

 

[Sugarcane]

American influence is extremely poisonous and powerful, look at the Raymond Davis affair.
I am sure the Pakistani public would make the right choice, but the decisions are up to the Pakistani politicians who are possibly the worst people to represent Pakistan. In my opinion of course.
If the Chinese government were to bypass the Pakistani government and try to talk directly to the people, the Pakistani government would almost certainly assume we were trying to go over their head or even replace them.

In Raymond Davis case govt. used Islam (as murderer can be forgiven by his relatives for blood money), so that example don't fit here. You also have to remember that our govt. (NS) didn't want to do nuclear tests because of US pressure and it was public mood which forced him to do so. However i am not sure what will be response of public for same kind of opportunity in future as next war unlike previous will be more destructive and not to forget we have free media (which is more anti-Pakistan than Indian), their role will be decisive factor as they are the opinion makers now.