Pakistan's Mirage 2000 Saga

[FaujHistorian]

As Shanixee mentioned, we have Mirage rebuilding factory. This means, maintenance and training will not be an issue. No doubt our air force has a limited budget, but if our friend has pointed out the fact that there is an interest, then i think its best for us to keep quite and let the professional force make moves that they think could work.

Our airforce has everything they need to "run and operate" the planes.

What we as a nation or the airforce in particular lacks is the courage to go out and work with Qatar and Gulf on the international missions.

Case in point.


Qatar really needed help to support its role in toppling Qaddafi regime. It deployed few F-16s if I remember correctly.

That was the time our airforce needed to jump in the action and send in a couple of squadrons as an ally of Qatar.


We did not and lost the opportunity to earn BIG points to get sweat deals on other opportunity.


Our forces these days are like langra loola (crippled) faqeer (beggar) sitting on the road side begging.

And that's really sad.

Because we as a nation are blessed with pretty strong arms and legs if know how to use them.

Qatar is even now asking for support in other parts of the world. But our airforce is sitting on its behind acting like a langra loola faqeer.



peace

 

[MastanKhan]

firstly i love the enthusiasm this thread has got from most posters and this thread has given Mastan Khan a new will to sign in and post and post and post more....i personally love the role u playing sir...Ok coming to the topic i think one of the posters said that M2K is not a Air supeirorty fighter and is more of a ground attack fighter... dear sir please stop thinking from the Kargil prespective....M2k might not have seen much action but then again the Greeks constantly repeatedly have engaged the Turkish over the AEGEAN sea...tell me how do u classify a fighter being a GOOD air superiroty fighter.... the Israelis bought the PRIDE of the US airforce called the F-15....and it is supposed to be the best air superiroty fighter....well what happened...next time round the mighty Israelis said no thank u we think the F-16s r a better platform any day....now the question is what made them prefer the F-16 to the F-15....because almost certainly Israel needs air superiroty given the vast number of its "enemies"....now the question is what makes a person say that such and such an aircrat is gonig to hold onto its own in the sky...look at PAF and its crazy obsession with F-16s its like either we get F-16s or nothing...i mean we could have just got the planes we paid for in the 90s cut our losses and run towards the Sweds for the grippen or...well britian is MINI ME of the US...that leaves u with French.... so now u need a developed platform that can take on ur enemies.

Like Mastan sir said that u have a village landlocked and u gotta spend as a deterrent to either buy the AK,G3s or the M-16....now the question is....the seller of the AK can all of a sudden want to get cozy with ur enemy....and stop supplying u...as for the M-16 the guy might ask u for more than what the thing deserves but is less prone to him choosing who he wants 2 get coozy with...and then there is a new village suppling the new guns who has just started developing his technology of making arms(CHINA) now out of these 3 options i personally feel the least poison pill is the country who is able to give u the M-16s…fine spend and be friend the new village but ur enemy won’t give u time 2 develop ur technology…its like 2 pills one u take and go back 2 thinking that we r great our airforce is great our JFs r great or u take the second pill and think well JF is just a workhorse and ain’t going to ever be able to compete with the F-16s BLK 60s or the Rafales

Hi,

After almost 4 years gone---and again it is time to compliment you on this post.

 

[satishkumarcsc]

As Shanixee mentioned, we have Mirage rebuilding factory. This means, maintenance and training will not be an issue. No doubt our air force has a limited budget, but if our friend has pointed out the fact that there is an interest, then i think its best for us to keep quite and let the professional force make moves that they think could work.

But these are Mirage 2000s right..and as far as I know Mirage IIIs and mirage 2ks are totally different generation of aircraft and the overhaul facility will differ a lot.

 

[MastanKhan]

There is just one "small hitch" my friend, just one! Money money money money money!


Our people and our army wants to bamboozle the West, and then expect that the same West and its gulf allies will give us expensive stuff for free. yes free free free free free.

This is the same reason, Chinese have run away from us. Because our government doesn't want to pay or doesn't have money to pay for the big stuff like fighter planes, power plants etc.

Not to TC, even Turkey is sick and tired of our shenanigans. Look how we confiscated their power plant carrying ships.

Unless we fix our attitude as a nation, and start working nicely as a nation to help out the West and its allies, the Mirages will remain a mirage in the gulf desert (if you know what I mean).

peace

Sir,

It was not for a lack of money----but rather incompetence on the part of PAF in recognizing and analyzing the level of threat being posed.

PAF---out of sheer stupidity fell for india's ruse one more time---for the fake peace negotiations in the early part of 2000. India knew pak had funds to spend cash on aircraft---. The indians also knew---that given time---once the PAF's attention is diverted away from procurement in time----pakistani would---out of habbit---create situations destructive to themselves---.

That gamble worked very well for india---as a matter of fact---pakistan has never let india down when it comes to failing to achieve its goals.

 

[krash]

Our airforce has everything they need to "run and operate" the planes.

What we as a nation or the airforce in particular lacks is the courage to go out and work with Qatar and Gulf on the international missions.

Case in point.


Qatar really needed help to support its role in toppling Qaddafi regime. It deployed few F-16s if I remember correctly.

That was the time our airforce needed to jump in the action and send in a couple of squadrons as an ally of Qatar.


We did not and lost the opportunity to earn BIG points to get sweat deals on other opportunity.


Our forces these days are like langra loola (crippled) faqeer (beggar) sitting on the road side begging.

And that's really sad.

Because we as a nation are blessed with pretty strong arms and legs if know how to use them.

Qatar is even now asking for support in other parts of the world. But our airforce is sitting on its behind acting like a langra loola faqeer.



peace

You mean the way they've paid back our every kindness? Not to mention the shear stupidity of sending forces against Qadafi in support of the gulfies. You want us to get tangled up in the whimsical tantrums of these full of themselves, irrational, uneducated, obtuse and down right moronic Arabs who happily live in the lie of their significance while being puppeted by the Yanki hand up their arse? No thank you, I'll pass.
Also read up on Qatar, Dubai, etc's involvement in Balochistan.

 

[Gentelman]

we need to employ people and make JF-17s does Mirage 2000 have the BVR capability?

They have BVR capability...
well i hadnot heard any such news of PAF negotiations for Mairages 2000....
all chances of acquiesce of Mairage series were negligible from time when IAF induced them.....
PAF can't consider such jets which are already induced by IAF...
i suppose this should be clear.....
Mairages are past....

 

[Gentelman]

Well I thought they dont supply Mirage 2000 anymore as India wanted to buy it, but then had to opt for MRCA tender. If PAF gets it then It will be one big Boost!

PAF will not get it.... we are not getting these birds..
Mairage is past...

 

[FaujHistorian]

You mean the way they've paid back our every kindness? Not to mention the shear stupidity of sending forces against Qadafi in support of the gulfies. You want us to get tangled up in the whimsical tantrums of these full of themselves, irrational, uneducated, obtuse and down right moronic Arabs who happily live in the lie of their significance while being puppeted by the Yanki hand up their arse? No thank you, I'll pass.
Also read up on Qatar, Dubai, etc's involvement in Balochistan.

Dear dear poster.

Please do not confuse with gulf charities who support Islamism

and

Guld Emirs who support pro-West agenda in the region.

These two groups are in an internal struggle within Gulf and outside gulf such as in Pakistan or Afghanistan or Yemen or Algeria etc. etc.


Pakistan will prosper if we work with Gulf Emirs
Pakistan will suffer death and destruction if we allow gulf-charities to spread their brand of Islamism.


I hope you understand this now.



p.s.

Dubai is being used for a lot of illegal money transfers. And if someone is using such channels to fund BLA, then we should use our influence over gulf to shut these things down. But we can only have influence on them if our soldiers and our army is our airforce is stationed there. We used to do so but now our army is crippled group all thanks to Islamism.

 

[FaujHistorian]

Sir,

It was not for a lack of money----but rather incompetence on the part of PAF in recognizing and analyzing the level of threat being posed.

PAF---out of sheer stupidity fell for india's ruse one more time---for the fake peace negotiations in the early part of 2000. India knew pak had funds to spend cash on aircraft---. The indians also knew---that given time---once the PAF's attention is diverted away from procurement in time----pakistani would---out of habbit---create situations destructive to themselves---.

That gamble worked very well for india---as a matter of fact---pakistan has never let india down when it comes to failing to achieve its goals.

Aaaaaah .


Let's drag India in and build up a nicely cooked, warm, and bubbling conspiracy theory.

Yes Sir,

India can simply throw out some statements and our HUGE plans for PAF crumble like a heap of sand.

This is great for a fictional story.

but in real world, airforces think many years ahead of time and if they have money, they equip themselves with the best possible stuff regardless of what their enemy says or doens't say.


peace

 

[MastanKhan]

Aaaaaah .


Let's drag India in and build up a nicely cooked, warm, and bubbling conspiracy theory.

Yes Sir,

India can simply throw out some statements and our HUGE plans for PAF crumble like a heap of sand.

This is great for a fictional story.

but in real world, airforces think many years ahead of time and if they have money, they equip themselves with the best possible stuff regardless of what their enemy says or doens't say.


peace

Hi,

I am surprised that you are ignorant of that fact---the reason PAF did not place an immediate order of fighter aircraft before the earthquake of 2005 was due to their asssessment that there would not be any war with india---peace talks were very close to coming to conclusion---.

Sir---I don't have the time to start all over with every pakistani who does know that paf had abundant amount of cash available before 2005---.

Every air force has plans for the future---except that PAF's plan fell on their face---first the rejection by france to supply electronics and missiles for JF 17 and sec ondly----JF 17 taking a long time to come to maturity and J10 being unpredictable---.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

Our airforce has everything they need to "run and operate" the planes.

What we as a nation or the airforce in particular lacks is the courage to go out and work with Qatar and Gulf on the international missions.

Case in point.


Qatar really needed help to support its role in toppling Qaddafi regime. It deployed few F-16s if I remember correctly.

That was the time our airforce needed to jump in the action and send in a couple of squadrons as an ally of Qatar.


We did not and lost the opportunity to earn BIG points to get sweat deals on other opportunity.


Our forces these days are like langra loola (crippled) faqeer (beggar) sitting on the road side begging.

And that's really sad.

Because we as a nation are blessed with pretty strong arms and legs if know how to use them.

Qatar is even now asking for support in other parts of the world. But our airforce is sitting on its behind acting like a langra loola faqeer.



peace

Sir, with due respect i think what we r doing is a right thing right now of not going into wars of someone else.Libya used to be once our Ally who had rumored to have funded our Nuke projects too.
The Qatar etc r GCC countries who have a loot of resources to fly their jets n maintain. But do we have enough resources to successfully fight war with Indians n still go for an international sair???

The Answer is NO!!!!!!!

there is an old saying, jitni Chadar ho utne pair bhalao.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

But these are Mirage 2000s right..and as far as I know Mirage IIIs and mirage 2ks are totally different generation of aircraft and the overhaul facility will differ a lot.

Not toooo different from 1 to 100 as mirage 2000-5 r based on mirage IV or III i think. and we operate mirage 3,4 and 5 as well as our own with ROSE update ie I, II,III.

So mirage 2000-5 that we r discussing, will be good for us.

 

[acetophenol]

But these are Mirage 2000s right..and as far as I know Mirage IIIs and mirage 2ks are totally different generation of aircraft and the overhaul facility will differ a lot.

yepzz,one is FBW other is not to begin with

 

[satishkumarcsc]

Not toooo different from 1 to 100 as mirage 2000-5 r based on mirage IV or III i think. and we operate mirage 3,4 and 5 as well as our own with ROSE update ie I, II,III.

So mirage 2000-5 that we r discussing, will be good for us.

Well the engines are totally different too...the Mirage III and Mirage V uses the ATAR 6C turbojet engine and the Mirage 2K uses the M-53P2 turbofan engine. There are alot of differences between the 2 aircraft.

 

[satishkumarcsc]

Mirage 2000 D cockpit