Pakistan's ISI chief heads to U.S. as ties flounder

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Eventhough most of pakis dont want aid from US, but see the way it is going Gen. Pasha going to US for talks, Mr. Gilani expressing concern over cutting of aid by US, Governor of the Central bank resigns, may the pak economy is in a very bad state

People should speak with their brain more than their heart

Continued US aid will do nothing to address the structural problems in Pakistan.

The only thing it will do is provide a short term 'band-aid' for Pakistan's resource crunch. At the end of the day, there is no way to avoid tax reforms, economic reforms and reforms/privatization of Public Sector Enterprises.

 

[iPhone]

I don't think the visit is about aid money, Pakistan and US has enjoyed decades long friendship, bit rocky here and there. He's probably going there to try to salvage this relationship before both countries reach a point of no return. Recent turn of events where Pak expelled US "trainers" US putting freeze on funds in retaliation, Pak military declaring we'll fight w/o your funds - that's how things turn awry. At that point it's always wise to try one last coolheaded approach before all's lost. This visit could be that.

 

[VCheng]

Continued US aid will do nothing to address the structural problems in Pakistan.

The only thing it will do is provide a short term 'band-aid' for Pakistan's resource crunch. At the end of the day, there is no way to avoid tax reforms, economic reforms and reforms/privatization of Public Sector Enterprises.

Then why is US AID blamed for all sorts of ills that afflict Pakistan?

 

[indushek]

Eventhough most of pakis dont want aid from US, but see the way it is going Gen. Pasha going to US for talks, Mr. Gilani expressing concern over cutting of aid by US, Governor of the Central bank resigns, may the pak economy is in a very bad state

People should speak with their brain more than their heart

Never use the word "" when addressing people of Pakistan, it is considered derogatory and stereotype. Please edit your post.

 

[Juice]

Some one brought up an interesting point. The months I have been on these forums, every one was screaming that they wanted US aid to stop. Now that the US is (not even fully), the tone has certainly changed, no one seems thankfull that the US is cutting aid, least of all your government, wich seems to know something you don't ( and while some is certainly lining pockets, you know it all isn't)

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

The manner in which the US expects the Pakistani dignitaries to go hotfoot for every little thing to the US does appear a bit exasperating.

 

[Juice]

The manner in which the US expects the Pakistani dignitaries to go hotfoot for every little thing to the US does appear a bit exasperating.

It is meant to be, we already tried the ask nicely route.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

It is meant to be, we already tried the ask nicely route.

That is the general impression one gets that Pakistan is at the beck and call.

That does no good for her prestige. While Pakistanis are not too enamoured by their Govt, they are pretty proud of their military and the ISI.

Therefore, if the military and the ISI also is at the beck and call, then it does no good for the prestige, or for the USA.

At least, the US should allow some organisations to maintain some sort of a credibility and honour or else there will be chaos in the country if there is no stable organisation to pull her out a rut.

And, even if the US does not feel so, the Pakistan Army and ISI should resist the image of being handmaidens.

And it is more extraordinary that the ISI Chief has gone to the US since the US is heaping slights one after the other. They have stopped aid. Having stopped aid, they did that Drone attack which killed more than one would like to imagine!

I just cannot fathom what is going on in the US Pakistan equation.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

In continuation of my post.

The ISI Chief has hotfooted to the US and while he is there, here is what is happening :

http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...ontinue-busting-cia-rings-shuja-pasha-us.html

Did he have to go all the way to the US to tell this?

I think it is all a drama!

 

[muse]

It's worth pointing out that US papers, certainly not the mouth piece if the US intelligence community, the NYT, have had any comment on the Pasha visit - readers will agree that this is itself, rather curious -- Pakistani papers, particularly the Dawn, have printed articles that the mission of Gen. Pasha was successful in that a anonymous US official is quoted suggesting that the intelligence relationship is now back on track -- now if it turns out that the Pakistan army, while saying it will not allow clandestine CIA operations on Pakistani soil, will have agreed to all CIA conditions for the resumption of military aid, then perhaps the sense of betrayal within the Pakistani population, as expressed in the media, will increase and be sharper - after all, it's not like all media can be threatened or all journalists murdered?

 

[Guest01]

It is a consistent pattern that Gen. Shuja Pasha is glorified always quoting un-named sources (who hence cannot be verified). The new emanates from select channels and nothing of this sort is verified by the other negotiating party = US in this case. The same was the case in the Parliament presentation leaks about the OBL raid and also in the last visit of Shuja Pasha to US.

He could might well have worn chaddi over shalwar and fished a submarine out of the water with the little finger! (if the need of that being shown via un-named sources ever arises!)

Best to take all this journalism with a load of salt and wait for the facts to appear and get in play.

 

[muse]

It is a consistent pattern that Gen. Shuja Pasha is glorified always quoting un-named sources (who hence cannot be verified). The new emanates from select channels and nothing of this sort is verified by the other negotiating party = US in this case. The same was the case in the Parliament presentation leaks about the OBL raid and also in the last visit of Shuja Pasha to US.

He could might well have worn chaddi over shalwar and fished a submarine out of the water with the little finger! (if the need of that being shown via un-named sources ever arises!)

Best to take all this journalism with a load of salt and wait for the facts to appear and get in play.

Thanks for the opportunity to read well thought out and fun post -- Also note that it's pretty much the same case when the story comes from the NYT - I think this means that things did not go well but that senior officials are spooked by the media stories and the "who lost Pakistan" bit.

Under all of this is Pakistan pursuing a policy to ensure her clients get a bigger share of the pie, the US as it's leaving is determined to frustrate Pakistan and to destabilize it -

Dismantle and Destroy AQ - we can all agree with that, right?? So why has it proved so burdensome to Pakistan?? EXACTLY why are Pakistan having a problem with this??

 

[Khanji23]

The question is do they have courage to speak to americans? Because most of them are continuing the policies of ghaddar Musharaf.

Mushi rented this Army to America for billions of dollars. In fact it is no more Pak Army but a bunch of 'Contract Killers' who are killing innocent people in FATA. Every person living in fata is not terrorist but army is not making any distinction between terrorists and civilians and killing them for no reason.
Dont forget Kiyani is successor of Mushi and Pasha is successor of Kiyani; Kiyani was put in place of Mushi to complete the task given to Mushi by America. When Mushi appointed Kiyani as Army Chief, in an interview Mushi was asked 'Do u think Kiyani would be loyal to you? Mushi replied 'i belive Gen Kiyani is loyal to my cause and therefore he is loyal to me'; we all know what was Mushi's cause, dont we? Mushi was loyal to Bush n Kiyani was loyal to Mushi, so both were n are loyal to their Godfather America. America played crucial role to strengthen Mushi's rule in Pakistan and Mushi & co (including kiyani) played vital role in fulfilment of Zionist Agenda of America/Isreal in Afghanistan and Pakistan. Remember what mushi did to Dr. A.Q Khan and how many innocent pakistanis including Dr. Afia Siddique were captured n sold to America, was mushi doing all this at his own? not at all, in fact he had support of other 'core commanders' including Kiyani, whom he(mushi) appointed Commander 10 core and afterwards DG ISI, Kiyani was also DG Millitary Operations (MO), being DG ISI and DG MO, he did great services for Mushi. It was kiyani who investigated about both attacks on mushi and caught the culprits. In reward to Kiyani's so called great services and servicemanship Mushi appointed him as Army Chief. Here is a list of few national Crimes committed by Kiyani as DG ISI and Army Chief:
I) Capturing and handing over Dr. Afia to America; it was done thorugh ISI and Kiyani was DG ISI at that time;
II) Humiliation of Dr. A.Q Khan; it was done through ISI and again Kiyani was DG ISI at that time;
III) Humiliation of Chief Justice of Pakistan Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhary in GHQ; Kiyani was DG ISI and was present in GHQ when CJ was illegally restrained in GHQ by mushi and kiyani was present at the time when mushi told CJ that he(CJ) was suspended;
IV) Kiyani being DG ISI and as partner of mushi led talks with late Benazir Bhuto for power sharing; mushi and Kiyani are equaly responsible to broker NRO n bringing
present corrupt PPP rulers into power; [both mushi and kiyani got rewards; mushi got safe and respectful exist from Pakistan with a Guard of Honour from Kiyani
and Kiyani got Three Years extension from government he(kiyani) played a role to bring into power; [all in the family]
V) Release of Raymond Davis agaisnt the wishes of Pakistani nation by serect hands [is there need to explain those secret hands? ok i do; secret hands = ISI = Army = Kiyani (ISI is an agency of Army, headed by a DG, controlled by Army Chief, so Army chief is directly responsible for its actions; this is why i mentioned Kiyani not Pasha, Pasha's thread is in hands of Kiyani because Army chief appoints DG ISI and DG ISI is direct subordinate to Army Chief]
VI) No action on 2nd May incident by Kiyani so far; whole nation is heart broken but not kiyani; why? because this action was done by his Godfather America; so why he should be worry when America has assured and guaranteed him a safe and respectful exist and Guard of Honour like mushi;
WELL DONE KIYANI; America is happy with you; this is why Admiral Mullan said 'we(america) should give more time to kiyani'

There are other crimes done by kiyani & co as well but the above are henious. I am hopeful when there will be rule of law in Pakistan, definitly people like mushi and kiyani will be brought to justice. Mushi & co and now Kiyani & co are Qoumi Mujrim;


[Before you guys label me as CIA/RAW's agent, read the crime list above, go through the facts and proofs alread in public knowledge and then make a decision; Gud luck]

 

[Guest01]

Thanks for the opportunity to read well thought out and fun post -- Also note that it's pretty much the same case when the story comes from the NYT - I think this means that things did not go well but that senior officials are spooked by the media stories and the "who lost Pakistan" bit.

Under all of this is Pakistan pursuing a policy to ensure her clients get a bigger share of the pie, the US as it's leaving is determined to frustrate Pakistan and to destabilize it -

Dismantle and Destroy AQ - we can all agree with that, right?? So why has it proved so burdensome to Pakistan?? EXACTLY why are Pakistan having a problem with this??

You are too kind Sir.

Re your comments, national interest is paramount and every nation should pursue it via all means that are needed and are its disposal including the media.

That holds as a true objective for all involved nations that are today involved in Afghanistan for whatever it is worth to them. My only exception to this pointed jingoism is that it is reserved for the Pakistani Army generals. If Haqqani would have had a good meeting with US or for that matter even Rahman (Maalik!) then the print would have had a totally different take. And all that I say has a precedence which I could very well quote. Today it is being claimed that Pasha gave the finger out there to Morell but if there is a drone strike or a raid tomorrow then the narrative will be that it is Zardari's fault because he cannot make a decision to respond!

But on the other hand, when when it is about Pakistani Army generals then the spin I am sure would put even Prassana to shame. There needs to be consistency and the civilian government should also (please be my lords) allowed to build credibility.

It is not correct to read it as a situation of Pakistani Army but rather that of Pakistan as a nation of 180 million electorate living via a constitution and not by a gun!

That is where the propaganda starts sounding a trifle irritating.

On the AQ and the dismantling part, to take the liberty, I would like to ask you a question back. Who and which particular institution in Pakistan actually loses if AQ and the assets are gone (?) and Sir, these are well groomed and seasoned assets mind you. That is where the dichotomy of the objectives is. And amidst this nice little strategy, who actually loses then?


.

 

[Cheetah786]

Then what does that say about the multiple trips made by high level US Administration, Military and intelligence officials to Pakistan?

Lets stop ranting and trolling please, and engage in constructive discourse.

Sorry My man but I stand by my statement you or others can always disagree with me but i strongly believe in it and there is nothing any one can say that will change my mind.

Then what does that say about the multiple trips made by high level US Administration,

A senior US government official has said that the meeting between DG ISI and his CIA counterpart went very well and both sides agreed on a number of steps that will improve Pakistan and the United States’ national security.

All the High ranking countless trips to Pakistan by the Americans couldn't resolve the issue a threat of AID cut by the Americans followed by meetings in GHQ a immediate trip to USA by the chief solved the problem Really Pakistani public is to believe his presence in USA convinced the Americans to change there mind If any one believes that man do i have a deal for them Brooklyn bridge for cheap.

And the best yet a threat to the Americans if u don't give us the Money we will not protect our country that statement alone should be enough for any body to understand where these Generals and politicians stands and it looks for sure they stand for the dollar not Pakistan.


So he went to USA to convince the Americans about why Pakistani army didn't follow the orders from Washington and he Managed to get them to agree in like day or 2 which all the visits by the Americans couldn't achieve its simple he went there with the orders from big boss and this is what he said to them ''YES SIR".