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Pakistan's Future ICBM 'Taimur'

Friend you mean war between pakistan and israel would end israel and america would eat popcorn and watch it? i think pakistan wont even know what came and hit them untill its too late. if pakistan even dare to take on israel than thats it. That would be begning of 'end' of pakistan my friend. Anyway you are taking israel too much lightly (due to size of it). Let us know what pakistan got and compare it to israel. Am sure you would know the 'huge' difference.

My friend buying (Su30, F18 or F16 American tech n Isreal Phalcon Awacs) for Pakistan ?? end pakistan and china ?? and you think we and chinez eat popcorn and watch it ???? i think Indian wont even know what came!

If India even dare to take on PAK or CHINA would be begning of """"END"""" OF INDIA and Hinduism (INCLUDING) you are taking pakistan too much lightly since last 10 years. So remember my words

1 matchz END OF INDIA!!!

PS: n ya remmeber we dont like 50 50 or 5 day test match.. we luv 20 20 and Answer any country with in short MATCH!
 
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Friend you mean war between pakistan and israel would end israel and america would eat popcorn and watch it? i think pakistan wont even know what came and hit them untill its too late. if pakistan even dare to take on israel than thats it. That would be begning of 'end' of pakistan my friend. Anyway you are taking israel too much lightly (due to size of it). Let us know what pakistan got and compare it to israel. Am sure you would know the 'huge' difference.

I respect your concerns for Pakistan but its not people of Pakistan who would want to go against Zionists, its what God has written in our fate. Pakistan is a developing country with millions of problems and issues. Our mistake but we are far behind in the field of technology, manufacturing, health, agriculture and education. But even then Pakistan is able to develop superior Nuclear Technology and Long Rage Missiles, one of the best battle tanks and quality fighters. Its not Muslims but particularly people of Pakistan who would join Prophet Isa Iban-e-Maryam against Zionists and it will happen the time when Anti-Christ (Dajjal) would be in the best of his powers. So we know, our enemy would be strongest of its times but we also know we are going to defeat it.

There was one battle, the battle of Constantinople about which Holy Prophet Muhammad PBUH had predicted and promised. It has happened Alhamdolillah and the way we were told. Now there is another prediction and promise of great reward about Ghazwatul-Hind and Fight against Dajjal and even the results are told already. So you wont find us shiver when you show us the comparison. As we know the results, we are waiting and waiting desperately for the day when Allah would put us under the test and reward us. May be 95% of Pakistani's would die or perhaps only 10 thousand would survive but we will be victorious and who cares for life which is going to end in 60 years time in any case.

:pakistan:
 
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Wow...and I always thought religious fanatic bed time stories are present in India only....
 
I think this would be not targeted against any country but would help in future space programme
 
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Wow...and I always thought religious fanatic bed time stories are present in India only....

Well I wont require you blueoval79 to believe in that stuff because its neither your religion nor more importantly have you read about it.

You can't call it

religious fanatic bed time stories

:disagree: Portents of that are present in Sahih Ahadith, meaning the established by research true words of the Prophet PBUH are present as evidence that say exactly what "graphican" said. As Muslims this is part of our Faith and you don't have to be a Fanatic to believe what the Prophet said. Any and every Muslim will tell you, whether from the traditional Muslim areas or Western countries, they believe the words of the Prophet PBUH and accept them to be more true than you and I being alive or here :) .

But what I liked about Graphican's statement was they way in which he conveyed the spirit of a Muslim. Material wealth ans resources are not the end but a mere means to an end.
 
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Wow...and I always thought religious fanatic bed time stories are present in India only....

This is not the stories these are the Sayings of Prophet MUHAMMAD (saw) and we belive in this . Don't you see why Bin Gorian in 1948 say
enematic words against Pakistan. My Childest thinking brother the comming war is the pure religious war and it is mainly between Islam and jewism.

Regards
Always wild but after peace.:pakistan::pakistan:
 
Sir we all are going away form topic:cheers:
This missile is only for Pakistan defence and its space development . Who ever hate this do their best . Now my reports are Pakistan has this from last 5 to 6 years in its inventory its cold tests all are done with all its perfections but they do not want an test it but now InshAllah Pakistan is going to test its Slv plus returning vehicle so guys hold your Thoughts Pakistan is again again going to surprise you all.:pakistan::pakistan:
 
It will be a deterrent and will stop any future wars and misadventure against Pakistan even from 7000Km away.
 
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But the question arises is: where are the going fire? Africa? Europe or deep inside Russia or China??????? where exactly, they cannot test only in Pakistan, the missile has to go somewhere and which country is going to allow this? and why western countries will not try to interrupt it?

I am happy for this news but i don't think its realistic yet, may be we have the capability but we are not going to fire it anytime soon, write it down, as long as Americans are there in Afghanistan and drone attacks in Pakistan i don't see enhancements in our Missile technology....... only small tests will take place for a while and after the drone attacks are over, then we can talk about something big, i guess 5000KM one week, 6000OM second, 7000KM third and 10000KM fourth week is possible but only after AMERICA is away from Pakistan
 
But the question arises is: where are the going fire? Africa? Europe or deep inside Russia or China??????? where exactly, they cannot test only in Pakistan, the missile has to go somewhere and which country is going to allow this? and why western countries will not try to interrupt it?

I am happy for this news but i don't think its realistic yet, may be we have the capability but we are not going to fire it anytime soon, write it down, as long as Americans are there in Afghanistan and drone attacks in Pakistan i don't see enhancements in our Missile technology....... only small tests will take place for a while and after the drone attacks are over, then we can talk about something big, i guess 5000KM one week, 6000OM second, 7000KM third and 10000KM fourth week is possible but only after AMERICA is away from Pakistan
That is a problem.

Just because a ballistic missile is capable of X distance, it does not mean the warhead will hit the intended target. The longer the distance, the longer the flight time and the more influences, such as aerodynamics or guidance errors, can increase its CEP to unacceptable level. So in order for Pakistan to actually verify the accuracy of this intercontinental level missile, where will Pakistan land the warhead and how will Pakistan verify its accuracy?

Imagine picking up a pistol, fire off one round and immediately throw the pistol into the trash can. Or how about imagining an F-15 Strike Eagle crew ejecting out of a perfectly functional fighter after they dropped their bombs. Sounds silly? Not really. That is exactly a missile -- a throwaway weapon. Every time you launch a missile, you are throwing away the launch vehicle. One launch vehicle per load. It is not cost effective so the idea of multiple warheads was borned, multiple independent reentry vehicles (MIRV). But you are still discarding the launch vehicle for every load, MIRV-ed or not. So in order to have a reasonable return-on-investment (ROI), and a missile launch towards the enemy is very much an 'investment', you should make the product to be as efficient and productive as possible and that mean verifying at that 7000km away location that the warhead will land somewhere around X.

After you fired off all 15 rounds of your semiautomagic pistol, you reload and perform the actions all over again. You clean the weapon periodically. Same for the F-15 Strike Eagle fighter. After you dropped your bombs, you do whatever you can to return to base so the aircraft can be rearmed. You have good ROI on both weapons.

Is Pakistan wealthy enough to throwaway so many missiles?
 
That is a problem.

Just because a ballistic missile is capable of X distance, it does not mean the warhead will hit the intended target. The longer the distance, the longer the flight time and the more influences, such as aerodynamics or guidance errors, can increase its CEP to unacceptable level. So in order for Pakistan to actually verify the accuracy of this intercontinental level missile, where will Pakistan land the warhead and how will Pakistan verify its accuracy?

Imagine picking up a pistol, fire off one round and immediately throw the pistol into the trash can. Or how about imagining an F-15 Strike Eagle crew ejecting out of a perfectly functional fighter after they dropped their bombs. Sounds silly? Not really. That is exactly a missile -- a throwaway weapon. Every time you launch a missile, you are throwing away the launch vehicle. One launch vehicle per load. It is not cost effective so the idea of multiple warheads was borned, multiple independent reentry vehicles (MIRV). But you are still discarding the launch vehicle for every load, MIRV-ed or not. So in order to have a reasonable return-on-investment (ROI), and a missile launch towards the enemy is very much an 'investment', you should make the product to be as efficient and productive as possible and that mean verifying at that 7000km away location that the warhead will land somewhere around X.

After you fired off all 15 rounds of your semiautomagic pistol, you reload and perform the actions all over again. You clean the weapon periodically. Same for the F-15 Strike Eagle fighter. After you dropped your bombs, you do whatever you can to return to base so the aircraft can be rearmed. You have good ROI on both weapons.

Is Pakistan wealthy enough to throwaway so many missiles?
How many are we talking here? All weapon systems go through prototype phases, and these prototypes are rarely put into operational service (JF-17, for instance). If we were to lose a few, but veerify its acuracy, it's a pretty damn good ROI isn't it?

Also, you don't really have to fire it off into another country, fire it into the sea. Or, if you really want to, launch it from the North and gather it up in the South, and extrapolate the data to calculate its accuracy over a longer distance. Errors are most likely to occur during the launch or final stages, and those are really not dependent on the distance travelled.

Worst case scenario, we ask the Chinese for assistance. Being unable to launch and recover it, or throwing a few away for the sake of RDTE and V&V are not reason enough to scrap a program of this magnitude, if it exists.

On the other hand, the area that such a project will benefit most is our Space Program. I have always believed that we had the know-how in missile-tech to work towards a space system launch vehicle, but were constrained due to funding and political short-sightedness. If this program turns out to be true, then surely, an SLV must be in the works as well. Space, in my opinion, is a much more beneficial (and a lot more justifiable) target to aim for than anyone 7000KM away from us.
 
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But the question arises is: where are the going fire? Africa? Europe or deep inside Russia or China??????? where exactly, they cannot test only in Pakistan, the missile has to go somewhere and which country is going to allow this? and why western countries will not try to interrupt it?

I am happy for this news but i don't think its realistic yet, may be we have the capability but we are not going to fire it anytime soon, write it down, as long as Americans are there in Afghanistan and drone attacks in Pakistan i don't see enhancements in our Missile technology....... only small tests will take place for a while and after the drone attacks are over, then we can talk about something big, i guess 5000KM one week, 6000OM second, 7000KM third and 10000KM fourth week is possible but only after AMERICA is away from Pakistan
Well interesting thoughts but I think Pakistan would save this missile for any curing future "Over confidence" just like nukes and babur and i personally think we should not do such things untill absolutely necessary.just like israel which has nukes but doesn't officially admits this.
 
That is a problem.

Just because a ballistic missile is capable of X distance, it does not mean the warhead will hit the intended target. The longer the distance, the longer the flight time and the more influences, such as aerodynamics or guidance errors, can increase its CEP to unacceptable level. So in order for Pakistan to actually verify the accuracy of this intercontinental level missile, where will Pakistan land the warhead and how will Pakistan verify its accuracy?

Imagine picking up a pistol, fire off one round and immediately throw the pistol into the trash can. Or how about imagining an F-15 Strike Eagle crew ejecting out of a perfectly functional fighter after they dropped their bombs. Sounds silly? Not really. That is exactly a missile -- a throwaway weapon. Every time you launch a missile, you are throwing away the launch vehicle. One launch vehicle per load. It is not cost effective so the idea of multiple warheads was borned, multiple independent reentry vehicles (MIRV). But you are still discarding the launch vehicle for every load, MIRV-ed or not. So in order to have a reasonable return-on-investment (ROI), and a missile launch towards the enemy is very much an 'investment', you should make the product to be as efficient and productive as possible and that mean verifying at that 7000km away location that the warhead will land somewhere around X.

After you fired off all 15 rounds of your semiautomagic pistol, you reload and perform the actions all over again. You clean the weapon periodically. Same for the F-15 Strike Eagle fighter. After you dropped your bombs, you do whatever you can to return to base so the aircraft can be rearmed. You have good ROI on both weapons.

Is Pakistan wealthy enough to throwaway so many missiles?

Missiles arnt as expensive as other military hardware. The hardware you stated above (most notably the F-15) are very expensive machines compared to medium range ballistic or cruise missiles. If you talk about ICBM's then I doubt pakistan would use them for purely conventional means
 
How many are we talking here? All weapon systems go through prototype phases, and these prototypes are rarely put into operational service (JF-17, for instance). If we were to lose a few, but veerify its acuracy, it's a pretty damn good ROI isn't it?

Also, you don't really have to fire it off into another country, fire it into the sea. Or, if you really want to, launch it from the North and gather it up in the South, and extrapolate the data to calculate its accuracy over a longer distance. Errors are most likely to occur during the launch or final stages, and those are really not dependent on the distance travelled.

Worst case scenario, we ask the Chinese for assistance. Being unable to launch and recover it, or throwing a few away for the sake of RDTE and V&V are not reason enough to scrap a program of this magnitude, if it exists.

On the other hand, the area that such a project will benefit most is our Space Program. I have always believed that we had the know-how in missile-tech to work towards a space system launch vehicle, but were constrained due to funding and political short-sightedness. If this program turns out to be true, then surely, an SLV must be in the works as well. Space, in my opinion, is a much more beneficial (and a lot more justifiable) target to aim for than anyone 7000KM away from us.
Not as simple as you think.

One of the most common problems in missile design and construction, regardless of type, is the thrust-body angle alignment. Basically, the issue is about if the direction of thrust is in line with the body and it is more problematic than most people realize. The rocket motors cannot be bolted to the missile body, their vibration will catastrophically fail the missile the moment it start. They must be isolated to some degree yet remain structurally integral to the missile so as not their thrust go out of alignment during flight. The higher the misalignment, the sooner and therefore shorter distance the error will manifest itself. If this issue is not addressed then it is irrelevant on how powerful and how far the missile can go. It will embarrassingly miss the target.

As the missile design is being refined, assuming the thrust-body angle alignment being minimized, it will be necessary to remove onself from launch to that X distance to verify if the thrust-body angle alignment is being properly addressed. If there are some misalignment that cannot be repaired then it must be compensated. The methods can be through aerodynamics such as fins to exploit aerodynamics forces to counteract the misdirection that misalignment induces, or to use lateral thrust mechanisms to effect the same counteractions. There are plenty of publicly available sources that shows those small side rocket bursts. They are for stabilization and to compensate for the missile's own thrust-body misalignment.

These items cannot be extrapolated as you cannot predict if those fins will actuate to the degree you want or those side thrusts will be constant over time. After you perform those repairs or install those compensation measures, you must run out to that 5000 km or 6000 km point and check if your fixes works as your suppliers claim they should. You must perform these tests on random, from launch times to distances.

Another issue that must be verified at the target point, meaning YOU have to be there, is when should the missile perform a 'gravity turn'...

Gravity turn - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The gravity turn is commonly utilized with launch vehicles such as a rocket or the Space Shuttle which launch vertically. The rocket begins by flying straight up, gaining both vertical speed and altitude. During this portion of the launch gravity acts directly against the thrust of the rocket, lowering its vertical acceleration. Losses associated with this slowing are known as gravity drag, and can be minimized by executing the next phase of the launch, the pitch over maneuver, as soon as possible. The pitch over should also be carried out while the vertical velocity is small to avoid large aerodynamic loads on the vehicle during the maneuver.
If the missile travels mostly endoatmosphere, it is more vulnerable to interception. So do you really want to perform this gravity turn 'as soon as possible'? May be or may be not. But regardless of when you want your missile to make this turn, the only way you can verify is with the final result and that mean you have to be at the target point.

In order for Pakistan to have an effective 7000 km ballistic missile force, much money must be allocated to testing this capability and that require Pakistan to have a 'blue water' navy force IF the intention is to test over water. The Chinese does not have a 'blue water' navy.

Because a missile is essentially a throwaway weapon, it would be criminally wasteful to have anything less than a full testing regime that would involve Pakistan to be at all points throughout the entire 7000 km distance. If the missile is acceptably accurate, based upon a certain CEP figure, at 6000 km and goes wildly out of tolerance beyond that, then the claim is 6000 km, not 7000 km even though the missile is capable of traveling that far. Of course, that tolerance is arbitrary but as far as those who are experienced at ICBM deployment, and that would include US and Russia, if the missile's CEP is beyond 100 meters, might as well go nuclear in order to have a good ROI.
 

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