Pakistan’s Cold War Technology shrinks the effectiveness of India’s S-400 ABM System – Akash S Muham

[hussain0216]

we don't have issue of medium and short range . we are just waiting for indians to took delivery . it will be stupid for pakistan to take action without indians actually recived the LRSAMs . look at MMRCA it was 180 fighter jets and ASAP IAF projected a requirement for about 126 aircraft in 2001. its now 2018 not a single is inducted . if paksitan got in panic and sign deals in 2000s it was waste of our resources . relax for now LY-80 SAPADA-2000 CROTALE and fm-90 doing well manpads like anza mistral rbs70 and stinger are here too to protect

The indians do alot of tamasha, chest thumping followed by a bollywood dance number

If we go by what indian's were moaning about in 2005--2010 we should be facing 350+ Tejas and 200+ Raphaels


Every weapon has a counter strategy let indians atleast spend the money, get a date and actually induct something before going crazy

 

[Khurram2349]

Honestly speaking we need to be very practical regarding our defense needs in the light of our economic situation. We are trying to compete with India which is already a super power and have full support of countries including USA , Russia, Israel, UK and also EU countries . Most of the developed World likes India because of its big economic opportunities , but the Western world as well as Israel has always supported India because of its anti Pakistan and anti Muslim stance , even during the Cold War , when India was suppose to be in Soviet bloc ! Pakistan on the other hand have always been snubbed mainly due to inefficiency of our own leader ship and also being a Muslim country .

We do need to salute the scientists of Pakistan as well as Military leadership which have backed them and resulted in developing a very potent defense system including nuclear bombs and sophisticated missile systems , with so much meager resources and resistance from hostile international powers ! Also special words need to be taken for some friendly countries including China for giving us support in developing these defense systems. Had we not done this then I am sure that India would have eaten Pakistan up by now and destroyed us , some thing which they have been yearning to do since th birth of Pakistan.

We are however a medium size and medium economy country . We have also been unfortunate to be led by some of the most corrupt political leaders in the world who have criminally siphoned billions of dollars of the motherland and left Pakistan at the verge of bankruptcy and loaded with debt. In this scenario when we are not even sure how to pay the interest on the enormous loans taken by the corrupt mafia it is foolish to think about acquiring sophisticated systems like LRSAMs , ABMs , or other equipment on our own to counter India . Now matter what we buy , Indians will be given multi times better equipment by its supporters and this will just go on and on draining our already meager resources !

Under current circumstances Pakistan need to have a Mutual Defense pact with China mainly aiming to counter our threat from India . Now Pakistan is lucky that due to CPEC , China is more involved in the safety and well being of Pakistan more then before . It is upto our leadership to take full advantage of this strategic situation. Lets involve China more in defense of Pakistan . Give China bases for Army , Navy and Air Force within Pakistan and ask them to shift some of its defense equipment in Pakistan including Air craft, strategic missiles and submarines , manned by Chinese , and let these bases be completely under Chinese control. In other words have some of our defense needs subcontracted to China . I am sure Chinese will find it to their own advantage to have bases in Pakistan and shift some of its strategic assets here encircling India from Western side land and sea routes .

It is not some thing unusual between close cooperating countries to have mutual defense pacts . Indians did the same with Soviet Union in 1960s and 70s and Soviets send their equipment and manpower in India which helped them during 1971 war. Now its time for China and Pakistan to enter in similar kind of defense pact which can secure both the countries interest as both have common enemies specially India .

Pakistan can save lot of money by involving Chinese in our defense and at the same time can also continue to be part of research and development with the Chinese and keep their scientists uptodate of technological development through joint development and production of equipment like fighter jets , missiles , radars, or electronic countermeasure systems.

The money saved can be used in strengthening the economy and bringing it to a level where we can be self sufficient in defense and better living standards of the people .

It requires a good honest sincere and strong minded leadership to negotiate with big powers . India has used Soviets to their advantage during the Cold War and now using USA against Pakistan . We had China as our only friendly super power but our leadership never took real advantage of this friendship.

Now its time to use the friendship of China to the fullest and make both countries benefit from it !

 

[Fawadqasim1]

Honestly speaking we need to be very practical regarding our defense needs in the light of our economic situation. We are trying to compete with India which is already a super power and have full support of countries including USA , Russia, Israel, UK and also EU countries . Most of the developed World likes India because of its big economic opportunities , but the Western world as well as Israel has always supported India because of its anti Pakistan and anti Muslim stance , even during the Cold War , when India was suppose to be in Soviet bloc ! Pakistan on the other hand have always been snubbed mainly due to inefficiency of our own leader ship and also being a Muslim country .

We do need to salute the scientists of Pakistan as well as Military leadership which have backed them and resulted in developing a very potent defense system including nuclear bombs and sophisticated missile systems , with so much meager resources and resistance from hostile international powers ! Also special words need to be taken for some friendly countries including China for giving us support in developing these defense systems. Had we not done this then I am sure that India would have eaten Pakistan up by now and destroyed us , some thing which they have been yearning to do since th birth of Pakistan.

We are however a medium size and medium economy country . We have also been unfortunate to be led by some of the most corrupt political leaders in the world who have criminally siphoned billions of dollars of the motherland and left Pakistan at the verge of bankruptcy and loaded with debt. In this scenario when we are not even sure how to pay the interest on the enormous loans taken by the corrupt mafia it is foolish to think about acquiring sophisticated systems like LRSAMs , ABMs , or other equipment on our own to counter India . Now matter what we buy , Indians will be given multi times better equipment by its supporters and this will just go on and on draining our already meager resources !

Under current circumstances Pakistan need to have a Mutual Defense pact with China mainly aiming to counter our threat from India . Now Pakistan is lucky that due to CPEC , China is more involved in the safety and well being of Pakistan more then before . It is upto our leadership to take full advantage of this strategic situation. Lets involve China more in defense of Pakistan . Give China bases for Army , Navy and Air Force within Pakistan and ask them to shift some of its defense equipment in Pakistan including Air craft, strategic missiles and submarines , manned by Chinese , and let these bases be completely under Chinese control. In other words have some of our defense needs subcontracted to China . I am sure Chinese will find it to their own advantage to have bases in Pakistan and shift some of its strategic assets here encircling India from Western side land and sea routes .

It is not some thing unusual between close cooperating countries to have mutual defense pacts . Indians did the same with Soviet Union in 1960s and 70s and Soviets send their equipment and manpower in India which helped them during 1971 war. Now its time for China and Pakistan to enter in similar kind of defense pact which can secure both the countries interest as both have common enemies specially India .

Pakistan can save lot of money by involving Chinese in our defense and at the same time can also continue to be part of research and development with the Chinese and keep their scientists uptodate of technological development through joint development and production of equipment like fighter jets , missiles , radars, or electronic countermeasure systems.

The money saved can be used in strengthening the economy and bringing it to a level where we can be self sufficient in defense and better living standards of the people .

It requires a good honest sincere and strong minded leadership to negotiate with big powers . India has used Soviets to their advantage during the Cold War and now using USA against Pakistan . We had China as our only friendly super power but our leadership never took real advantage of this friendship.

Now its time to use the friendship of China to the fullest and make both countries benefit from it !

sir when the chips are down no one will be with us other than arms ammunition supply.or some diplomatic ha ho

 

[Kompromat]

S-400 has no ABM capability

 

[ziaulislam]

Should not generalize like that. There is ample proof of live intercepts of advanced ballistic missiles out there, if you look carefully.

BMDS programs have advanced to a degree that even S-400 fall in the LOW END category now. Still, a formidable system and a destabilizing element in PAK - INDIA scenario.

the only real tests we have for long range high altitude blasstic missles are from American missle.defense system and after rpeeated tests there have been failures ...i am not talking about short and medium altitude systems..also we are not even considering the MIRV systems

 

[YeBeWarned]

S-400 has no ABM capability

HQ-26 has

 

[Fawadqasim1]

S-400 has no ABM capability

But sir its anti aircraft capabilities are alleged to be considerable.

 

[Ultima Thule]

longe range mlrs with smart sub munitions in conjunction with a kolchuga type passive esms will keep the mischief of s400 and other bmds aams deep inside india.
For example
http://survincity.com/2011/04/china-has-developed-mrl-ws-2d-with-a-range-of-400/

it will also make their forward air bases nearly unusable or (very difficult to use) giving us plenty of early warning.

it can also be used against brahmos ground based batteries in conjunction with photo reconnaissance satellite and on ground human based intelligence.

we should not waste hard currency worth billions on readymade single function LRSAMs
Correct me if I am wrong.

how about Harpy type suicide drone, with a anti-radiation seeker, to overwhelmed indian S-400, China is already producing harpy clones @Fawadqasim1
Harpy/JWS01

A column of PLAAF JWS01 UCAV launch vehicles were on display during the parade celebrating the 90th Anniversary of PLA, each carrying 6 UCAVs. Previously acquired secretly from Israel in 1994, this highly classified UCAV (called Harpy) was unknown to the West until 2004 when they were returned to Israel for upgrade. Developed by IAI in the early 90s, Harpy is the first UCAV which features a passive radar seeker and can be used as a long-range anti-radiation weapon to attack enemy radar stations. Its range is 500km, max speed 185km/hr, warhead 32kg. Several Harpy can operate in a pack for coordinated attack. One Harpy UCAV launch vehicle can carry 18 box launchers. In 2004 Chinese were trying have them upgraded by Israelis but the attempt was discovered and subsequently blocked by the US government. All UCAVs were returned to China without any upgrades. Images from April 2011 suggested that Chinese have developed their own version of Harpy (JWS01 or K/JWF-1?) by reverse-engineering which likely started around 2005. Two new types of seeker with slightly different sizes have been identified (Type I & Type II?), suggesting different homing frequencies. However the launch vehicle now carries only 6 launchers instead of 18. The latest news (February 2017) suggested that the UCAV has been offered for export as ASN-301, which features two pairs of retractable direction-finding antenna blades pointing straight above and below the main body. The radar homing seeker has a search range of 25km and a frequency coverage of 2-16GHz.

@Fawadqasim1

 

[Fawadqasim1]

how about Harpy type suicide drone, with a anti-radiation seeker, to overwhelmed indian S-400, China is already producing harpy clones @Fawadqasim1
Harpy/JWS01

A column of PLAAF JWS01 UCAV launch vehicles were on display during the parade celebrating the 90th Anniversary of PLA, each carrying 6 UCAVs. Previously acquired secretly from Israel in 1994, this highly classified UCAV (called Harpy) was unknown to the West until 2004 when they were returned to Israel for upgrade. Developed by IAI in the early 90s, Harpy is the first UCAV which features a passive radar seeker and can be used as a long-range anti-radiation weapon to attack enemy radar stations. Its range is 500km, max speed 185km/hr, warhead 32kg. Several Harpy can operate in a pack for coordinated attack. One Harpy UCAV launch vehicle can carry 18 box launchers. In 2004 Chinese were trying have them upgraded by Israelis but the attempt was discovered and subsequently blocked by the US government. All UCAVs were returned to China without any upgrades. Images from April 2011 suggested that Chinese have developed their own version of Harpy (JWS01 or K/JWF-1?) by reverse-engineering which likely started around 2005. Two new types of seeker with slightly different sizes have been identified (Type I & Type II?), suggesting different homing frequencies. However the launch vehicle now carries only 6 launchers instead of 18. The latest news (February 2017) suggested that the UCAV has been offered for export as ASN-301, which features two pairs of retractable direction-finding antenna blades pointing straight above and below the main body. The radar homing seeker has a search range of 25km and a frequency coverage of 2-16GHz.
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@Fawadqasim1

It's slow and takes a long time to reach the target remember sir s400 is a mobile system and a simple active protection system can be devised to kill dozens of these kamikaze drones.

 

[Ultima Thule]

It's slow and takes a long time to reach the target remember sir s400 is a mobile system and a simple active protection system can be devised to kill dozens of these kamikaze drones.

With MLRS CM to overwhelmed S-400 @Fawadqasim1

 

[Fawadqasim1]

With MLRS CM to overwhelmed S-400 @Fawadqasim1

Sir please elaborate.

They can also be fooled into a death/kill zones by dummy radiating targets

 

[Ultima Thule]

It's slow and takes a long time to reach the target remember sir s400 is a mobile system and a simple active protection system can be devised to kill dozens of these kamikaze drones.

Sir please elaborate.

bro S-400 is basically a ABM system with a capability to intercept of fighter jets but against CM and Harpy like suicide drones it has it has minimal capability if your proposed CM, MRLS attacks intercept by S-400 Harpy could reach its targets (S-400) @Fawadqasim1 that's the point i would like to say @Fawadqasim1

 

[Fawadqasim1]

bro S-400 is basically a ABM system with a capability to intercept of fighter jets but against CM and Harpy like suicide drones it has it has minimal capability if your proposed CM, MRLS attacks intercept by S-400 Harpy could reach its targets (S-400) @Fawadqasim1 that's the point i would like to say @Fawadqasim1

bro S-400 is basically a ABM system with a capability to intercept of fighter jets but against CM and Harpy like suicide drones it has it has minimal capability if your proposed CM, MRLS attacks intercept by S-400 Harpy could reach its targets (S-400) @Fawadqasim1 that's the point i would like to say @Fawadqasim1

And i haven't mentioned cruise missiles sir

quite the opposite they are very costly.sir

 

[Ultima Thule]

And did not mention cruise missiles sir

Yes it is a possibility but what about dozens of Harpy like UCAV's flying in a same directions or in multiple directions @Fawadqasim1

 

[Fawadqasim1]

And sir s400 primarily a Sam system it's BMD capabilities are limited and secondary

It was just an example. A thought provoking one